Yale Music Concern... Recording or Not? Ideas Please!

Colleges and Universities A-Z Yale University
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<p>Hi,
I'm a high school senior getting ready to send in an application for SCEA. I won't go into detail, but I'd say I have a fair shot at getting in (not great, not horrible). My SAT's are good, GPA good (if not a little less consistenly A and A+ than many applicants), National Merit Semifinalist (as of now), etc. Where many students with my academic stats seem to falter is extra curric.'s; no particular passion or interest that they have pursued for years. I have cross-country, youth group, community service, and most of all music. This comes through on my app as a passion (not obession or clear life path). I have played the french horn for 5 years now and the piano for 10. Now that I've given some background, to go into detail:</p>

<p>I was told a couple of months ago that only the very serious music student should send in a recording to a college such as Yale, with a good program but not a schoolwide emphasis. About a week ago, I was talking to a friend of mine about her college stuff. She has comparable academic stats to me if not even slightly better (depending how you give importance to different things). She is not involved in the bredth of activity that I am (and I can honestly say I enjoy it all-- NOT a resume whore like too many around here), but still is a strong case for Princeton with a legacy. Her flute playing, from having heard it, is very good, about on the level of my horn playing (I am in Seattle Youth Symphony Orchestra; she did not make it but other political factors in the organization are at work... too complicated). My piano playing is now approaching quite a high level after having studied with the same professor at UW for 3 years... for the music savvy, I'm now on the full Moonlight Sonata, Mendelssohn Piano Concerto #1, Bach Tocattas, etc. I will be entering my first real high level competition in the spring. Anway, the girl I know just sent in a recording to Princeton early decision. She said that since flute is so important to her, it's a good thing for the app committee to have. I checked with a couple friends and counselors, and am now half-freaking out... should I put a recording together to send in?</p>

<p>The first question would be piano or horn. Both will appear on my resume, of course. Horn seems to be more of a commodity for colleges; they simply have fewer. However, making a tape of that in 2 weeks would require calling up an accompianist who I have used and would be difficult but not impossible. Piano, which I spend more time on, is more common and probably less of a way to differentiate myself compared with horn. I do go further back with it, and in some ways I am more connected to it, though. Additionally, my main college essay is an experience of my first piano playing class, perhaps showing a slight preference for that. </p>

<p>After getting a very different perspective on sending in a tape in the last few days, my instinct tells me to make one of piano, probably a Bach Tocatta I performed a month ago, even though it isn't as rare as the horn, and send it in. I REALLY don't want to clutter up my app, though, and since I'm probably not looking at a music major unless I double major (unlikely), and almost certainly not a music career, and I don't yet have any performing credits or awards with piano, and don't want colleges to think that with an essay about piano and sending in a piano tape that that's a clear favorite over horn... should I just not get myself worked up and stick to the original plan, leaving it for the app people to see that I obviously spend lots of time with music and enjoy both instruments? Or should I accentuate the music edge of my app with a recording?</p>

<p>Thank you very much to anyone who read this to consider... at least it's not just a ridiculous statement of achievements and then "What are my odds?" This seems to be a delicate issue, and I hope that someone with as much knowledge on the process as possible will give me some wise ideas. I think of myself as very prone to thinking and carefuly consideration of these matters, and I'm pretty much stumped for the time being. Thanks again and please respond if you have any ideas!</p>

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<p>aj00 ...I'm facing the exact same problem!! I play both violin and piano...and I'm also in a youth symphony orchestra, but I really have no idea if I should send in one for violin or piano. Can I still even send them in even if I wasn't planning on pursuing a music major? Are you sending in any other piano recordings...I recorded a Khatchuturian "Toccata" and Rachimoninov "Prelude in C major" ,but one of my friends told me that they were looking for virtuoso or something...what have you heard about sending in recordings? Btw...which tocatta did you play?</p>

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<p>I'm lucky: flute has always been #1. Don't know why, my mother always insisted my calling is piano, but I don't have the patience for it. Isn't it weird? I can practice blowing into a tube for two hours a day but get bored after five minutes of playing several notes at once :)</p>

<p>Anyway, I would send in the piano. You're more passionate about it. And just because you play the horn doesn't guarantee you fill a niche. Now, with flute, I could find two well-known pieces written for solo instrument (my hometown is destitute of accompanists), but I can't imagine finding the equivalent of Syrinx for french horn :/ Bach is a very good idea. Everyone hates it, including me (what does he want from me?!) but its the basics and shows true mastery of technique and interpretation, not just violent scales all over the place. Anyone can be a virtuoso. What would your contrasting piece be? A movement of the Mendelssohn?</p>

<p>My teacher suggested I also include a resume and repertoire list. Both the pieces I'm submitting are pretty modern, so I should demonstrate that I'm well-versed in other time periods. So I've got my list of symphonies, concerts, competitions, etc. and then a basic list of the major solo pieces I've worked on in the past few years. This way, when the music professor is listening, enthralled, to your beautiful playing, he/she can peruse your nice clean resume (on fancy paper, perhaps) and further deepen their admiration for your genius :D</p>

<p>I understand your concern for "cluttering the application," but honestly, music is so important. It is to me at least. Don't shortchange yourself.</p>

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<p>tkm256...you can submit a repertoire list?</p>

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<p>Nothing says you can't. The conservatories and music LACs require it, so I don't see why Yale wouldn't accept it. Worst that happens is they don't look at it.</p>

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<p>Send one in, I'd say. I'm in the same situation for a voice recording, especially since I have classical training but my repetoire is mostly Musical Theatre, and who knows what a Music Dept. will think of MT ballads vs. opera arias... In one sense, as the saying goes, the thicker the application, the thicker the applicant. On the other hand, if the music dept. pulls for you, that could give you a leg up on a lot of other applicants. Let me know what you decide.</p>

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<p>My feeling is that if you don't plan to major in music, I wouldn't send a tape. Listing your accomplishments and awards is enough- surely the admissions committee can see that performing with a symphony shows a great deal of committment and talent. Is your piano ability such that the Yale music department chair would say, "Wow! I haven't heard anyone this talented for years!" If not, skip it.
I think your first instincts about cluttering you app are right. Don't let what others are doing throw you into panic and self-doubt.
Yale likes well-rounded students with many interests who will be eager to take advantage of the many opportunities the school offers.
For you, music is one of those, but not the only one, or even the main one, you say. They will see this from the information you provide on the application. (What about the little essay about "favorite activity." Music would be a natural subject for you, here.)</p>

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<p>Thanks all for responding... some good ideas here.</p>

<p>What most of you, especially tkm, said was that since music is a big part of my life, I would be "shortchanging" myself not to send in a recording. However, A.S.A.P., your advice comes across to me as the most wise (P.S., I'd be very interested to know who you are... parent, student, alumnus?). </p>

<p>A few other things:</p>

<p>tkm, I honestly understand how important you think music is, but I have heard from so many places that it really is true: the thicker the app., the thicker the student. DizzyDani counters this by saying that the music dept. could pull for you, but consider: Yale does not have a performance-based music major. What A.S.A.P. implies, that unless you are really a virtuoso, the dept. will be receiving dozens of other tapes at the quality of yours (or better), makes good sense. It almost seeme like you're trying to wow them with something that most likely, won't. This might be best illustrated in tkm's phrase, ". . . This way, when the music professor is listening, enthralled, to your beautiful playing, he/she can peruse your nice clean resume (on fancy paper, perhaps) . . ." I hate to say it, but this sounds overly optimistic, that one long day after teaching a music professor will sit down and gaze with awe at an aspiring musician's resume. Music is what they do; it will take a hell of a lot to impress them.<br>
Then, tkm's comment really made me think, that "Worst that happens is they don't look at it." I disagree; from what I've heard, in some cases that may be the best that happens. App committees, from what I know, are very sensitive. Yes, conservatories, etc. require them... but you're not applying to one, you're applying to Yale University. The student who already has his or her heart set on music probably has better places to fit in. Don't risk an app that pushes music beyond all else... I'm not sure what good consequence this might have. Some say well-roundedness is out; maybe, but it hasn't been replaced by a straight line. </p>

<p>Ok, so here's where I stand now. Without a recording, the appcom will see my years with music, how much time I spend on it, my passion for it, but also my other interests such as history, physics, literature and running. What will a recording add? Someone, please explain to me why what A.S.A.P. says is wrong. While it's possible to send in recordings or art portfolios, there must be a reason why counselor's seem to hesitate to reccomend it, at least in my experience. Ok, you can argue that they don't want the average person sending in an average recording, only to ruin his or her chances. But even a great recording... I guess my issue at this point is that it seems to be saying, "Look, I really, really, really love music! Ok, I like school too, but music is for me!" So when would sending one in be justified? Once again, what A.S.A.P. says adds up to me. Maybe if you've been winning competitions since you were 8, and love music, but have something almost equally impressive to balance it out-- being extremely advanced or enthused about calculus, getting involved politically, etc. The truth is that most who persue the modern-day cutthroat world of school and music don't have time for another passion. Maybe that's why sending in extra material seems to be in such a gray area for me. If you can make it in with a recording, and you're not a prodigy, you should be able to make it without it. </p>

<p>Please keep responding; even though I sound convinced at this point, I assure you that I'm not. Every time I tell myself, "Ok, I've decided that a recording would be a mistake," I wonder: why not throw in a little something? Maybe it would be a nice touch.</p>

<p>P.S. I didn't mean to attack you or anything tkm, just trying to understand it all.</p>

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<p>Someone I know who is now a freshman at Harvard sent in a piano recording and believes that is one of the main the reasons he was admitted (his amazing standardized test scores didn't hurt, of course). He is a fabulous pianist, but there are a lot of fabulous pianists in the world. Still, someone listened to his recording, and liked it. That can't possibly hurt. Even though, as you say, there are going to be A LOT of ppl sending in these supplements and it will be hard to distinguish yourself among them, far more people are going to have JUST as amazing grades, scores, extracurriculars. I wouldn't say that this is a question to obsess over, I do think that if you have spent a lot of time in one area and as they say on the website you have "a particuarly well-developed talent" it wouldn't hurt to submit. Just make sure it's not a "mediocre submission" that could "work against a candidate".</p>

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<p>P.S. They specifically say on the website "A roster of selected music faculty member will review audio tapes, CDs or scores from advanced musicians, whether or not they wish to major in music as undergraduates".</p>

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<p>aj00: I asked my councelor and music theory teacher and he said that submitting a recording is important regardless of whether you plan to major in music or not. Yale offers so many other venues for you to apply your piano skills within the school...all equally considered by the adcoms.</p>

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<p>DizzyDani88, you're right about all the music supplements they receive...when I went to Harvard, the admissions councelor showed me the 5 large shelves they had from all the CD's and tapes students sent in from just last year. Although he said they literally receive thousands, he encouraged me to send a CD or tape in...lol</p>

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<p>Unless you are amazing, I agree with the person who advised against sending a cd. I think many colleges (including Harvard) welcome student cds much more than Yale. With its graduate conservatory, Yale does not necessarily need undergrad musicians to fill out its orchestra and chamber groups. Its application, at least a couple of years ago, stated very specifically that a less than stellar cd could actually hurt an applicant's chances, while other schools will tell you it won't be held against you and might help. Yale admissions also has a reputation for putting applications they consider too thick in the bottom of the pile. (Harvard's, on the other hand, says "give us your best shot," including inviting a supplemental essay.) They will see your musical accomplishments in your application. Just one more opinion, of course.</p>

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<p>Ok, I talked to my piano teacher, who has a doctorate and teaches at the UW, and her comments really helped (I'll try to keep it brief this time lol):</p>

<p>Going to the Manhattan School of Music, she saw LOTS of those crazy/brilliant people who have practiced for 4, 6, even 10+ hours a day since they were 3. Apparently, something I didn't know, the Yale graduate and doctorate music programs are excellent, comparable to many of the conservatories in NY, and as a result many of the same people who are vying for spots in those places consider and go to Yale. The thing she didn't know, however, was that Yale doesn't offer an undergraduate performance major. Also she didn't realize that there is a provision in the application for sending in supplementary material such as music recordings and art portfolios, as opposed to doing it 100% on your own.</p>

<p>We talked about this for a good 15 minutes, and even though I surprised my teacher with a couple things, the fact remains: Yale's music school is far better than Princeton or even Harvard's, and it is a cutthroat place (especially on the post-graduate levels). Unless you are outstanding, knowing personally some of the faculty there, my teacher strongly discourages sending in a tape, which is the advice I'll take. I'm a very good pianist, but not at the level I would be to send something in. If you're uncertain whether or not it will hurt your chances, don't do it. The image my teacher gave me, of the professor who expects incredibly dedicated students, sitting there listening to a tape and checking of mistake by mistake, no matter how subtle, is a powerful one. Yale in general is, of course, a friendly place, but music schools just work differently... ask someone who's been on the inside. </p>

<p>There's a chance that Yale has a whole policy set up for dealing with these undergrad recordings so that their standards are significantly lower than my teacher imagines, but considering the culture of the music school, I wouldn't bet on it.</p>

<p>Yet another perspective... but at least I'm not still panicking right before I send in the app.</p>

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<p>legend has it that the adcoms throw a big party at the end of the season. there, they listen to all the supplementary music and get drunk. </p>

<p>probably not true, but imagine having a piece of your soul being mocked like that. </p>

<p>plus, if your application is pushing music, and the committee sees that you've won blah blah list of awards in music, i'm pretty sure they'll trust that you're a good musician.</p>

<p>...at least that's what i'm hoping, for my sake.</p>

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<p>Wow, your teacher is totally opposite of mine, aj00. Maybe piano and flute are entirely different worlds. I guess everyone has to approach this question differently. I'm sending a tape because music is a huge part of my life, and my personality actually comes through stronger through my instrument than it does on paper. When I think of me, I think of my tone and style of playing, not so much the grades on my transcript. I want the adcoms to see the real me. But if you think of music more as a pursuit than a state of being (I'm a hippie and proud), you can bring yourself across in other ways.</p>

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<p>A Yale adcom explained this to me-</p>

<p>When you send in a tape, they give it to an arts faculty member who specializes in the field. The expert simply reports back in by saying that it was good, excellent, or masterful (they rarely have people actually send in BAD samples....)</p>

<p>The adcoms don't actually know how to judge this themselves, so they incorporate it as a positive for your app if you're considered exceptional. If it's simply good, it does not help your app</p>

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<p>Oh, good. So I've got nothing to lose.</p>