YALE or Princeton

<p>Well what else would you like to know about them? I'll address the philosophy department since as of now I'm planning on concentrating on philosophy. Yes, the department is strong, due mostly to the focus of classes, the seminars, outside lectures, junior papers/seminars, and the senior thesis, as well as the outstanding faculty. Students participate both in the wide breadth and depth of courses as well as outside forums, councils, and programs, including the Center for Human Values, Center for the Study of Religion, and the Program in Humanistic Studies. The faculty concentrate in areas from African-American intellectual history and political philosophy to temporal asymmetry and moral psychology. The department offers several programs within it as well, including political philosophy, the philosophy of science, and the philosophy of language (done in conjunction with the Program in Linguistics).</p>

<p>I don't know much about the English department except that it is large and very good. They offer different tracts, one of which includes creative writing (there's also a Program in Creative Writing for those who wish to get a certificate in it). I'm not that familiar with Yale's departments, but I will say that due to Princeton's incredible undergraduate focus, you will be able to work closely with professors and gain research opportunities that will really enhance your undergraduate studies. I can't wait to get entrenched in the intellectual community at Princeton (and who said that Princeton is lacking this? I've never heard this. Ever.), especially within the context of the Department of Philosophy. Best of luck with your decision :) You really can't go wrong either way.</p>

<p>Shrek, I checked my "sources"...it's Campus you're talking about.</p>

<p>oooh yes sry u are correct im sry for the mistake =P thx for double checkign!</p>

<p>Many people come here and say "my school is better than yours" with nothing to back it up. I like facts, and the FACTS are these:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>The US NEWS poll is not a selectivity poll. It puts Princeton ahead of Yale for many reasons. Selectivity is just one of more than ten factors it considers.</p></li>
<li><p>The largest student review guide in the nation (whose name cannot be mentioned here) puts Princeton ahead of Yale, not because of selectivity but because of academic environment.</p></li>
<li><p>The Fiske Guide's statement that Columbia may overtake Yale's position among the Big 3 IVYs (HYP) has little to do with selectivty, but rather with Columbia's rise in prominence and Yale's position as the weaker of the current BIG 3.</p></li>
<li><p>Princeton has, by definition, TOTAL Undergraduate Focus. This is something that Yale with all its grad programs can never match.</p></li>
<li><p>Yale has significantly greater on campus crime than Princeton.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>These are facts and the views of others who are in the business of assessing schools. Not my personal BS. Ranking after ranking, among the credible, national evaluators, no matter what the criteria, Princeton always comes out ahead. </p>

<p>As far as yield goes, even that famous yield promoter has Princeton and Yale in a dead heat. So be careful when you say things without support. I mentioned earlier the flaw with using cross admits, below is the problem with looking at yield to determine selectivity (from the harvard thread):</p>

<p>Problem with using yield analysis to measure selectivity:</p>

<p>"It is very evident from the various admissions threads that yield is not driving the bus with top schools. Case in point - At the Princeton site there are a number of students, with top credentials (1,550 SATs etc.) who were rejected at both the ED and RD levels. These same students however were
accepted at Harvard and/or Yale. These were clearly qualified students. My point is that if Princeton was driven by yield concerns, wouldn't it make sense to accept these students since they indicated earlier in the ED process that Princeton was their top choice school? The simple answer is yes of course (if Princeron was driven by yield)."</p>

<p>Pcessly, I wouldn't pick a school on any of those reasons. Even though USNews and company are decent general indicators of a school's quality, you can't make decisions based on differences of 1 or 2 places in the rankings. If these companies slightly changed the weighting of certain factors, Yale could overtake harvard and princeton, reflecting changes in the criteria, not changes in the schools. So, such small differences in the general rankings are negligible. Are you a senior? (it doesn't sound like it). Even though i'm definitely a supporter of princeton, I think that it has so many tangible qualities that are so great, you'd be doing it a disservice to claim that it is the best based on rankings. There are so many reasons to choose princeton, and none of those include US News or Princeton review or Atlantic Monthly. Also, i don't think you need to diminish other schools to further your cause. Yale is a very, very good school, many princetonians and yalies strongly considered both schools, and there's no reason to believe that Yale is diminishing in stature in any way.</p>

<p>i dont think pcessly is saying this is why u should go to princeton but on the yale board many yalies are saying princeton is a much worse school without providing evidence and this crimson dude likes to say yale is better without any factual information or statistics to back his claims up, hes kinda like mensa.</p>

<p>oh, ok. well, i'm glad you cleared that up for people who didn't see the other thread</p>

<p>I hope Penn gets more props... since I am going there now :P</p>

<p>I have never said Princeton is worse than yale ANYWHERE. I have made no claim that is not backed up by stats (check the RD yield rates last year, and the predicted yield rates this year, and you'll see I'm right). Check the revealed preference study, which I also stated. Other than those two things, I have not made any absurd claims and I would appreciate you refrain from dreaming up accusatory posts from now on. Thank you. </p>

<p>Frankly, and I think most would agree, these rankings change from year to year, and are just a superficial indicator of the range of best schools. You don't see MIT students flaming the Princeton board with boasts of the Atlantic Monthly or PR rank (as you do on the Yale board) - they don't take it seriously, nor do they use it to assuage insecurities. But for some reason, you seem to continuously, in all your re-incarnations (you've been banned before at least twice), re-post this same and absurd claim that Princeton is better because it is ranked higher (not even #1) in three surveys. But its not. NONE OF THESE SCHOOLS ARE "BETTER" THAN THE OTHER. They are all different from eachother and your persistence is doing disservice to the differences which make each unique and desirable to individual candidates. Go to Princeton, but not because its ranked #2 in the Atlantic Monthly or PR or #1 in USNEWS. God no. Go because its the best for you. At this level, that's all you can do. Trying to say one is better than the other is just plain naive.</p>

<p>The PR rank of best academics:</p>

<ol>
<li>Uchicago</li>
<li>Marlboro</li>
<li>reed</li>
<li>St Johns</li>
<li>Swarthmore</li>
</ol>

<p>The rank listed by PCESSLY is "hardest to get into" which is moot once you get in.</p>

<p>The Atlantic Monthly Rank is based on "admissions selectivity, median SAT scores, and class rank of applicants". Are you seriously telling me this is the worth of an institution. UChicago ranked 39 on this list. Not very consistent.</p>

<p>Crimson, your last post was misleading </p>

<p>The survey you referred to was "Best Academic Experience" not "Best Academics". Big Difference! Are you that desperate?</p>

<p>The criteria for that survey was as follows:</p>

<p>"Academic Rating
How hard students work and how much they get back for their efforts, on a scale of 60-99. This rating is calculated from student survey results and statistical information reported by administrators. Factors weighed include how many hours students study outside of the classroom and the quality of students the school attracts. We also considered students' assessments of their professors, class size, student-teacher ratio, use of teaching assistants, amount of class discussion, registration, and resources."</p>

<p>Given that the IVYs, particularly H, are witnessing, in some cases, massive grade inflation, with students at some schools not even attending classes, did you really expect to see them at the top of that list. The criteria here in the ranking is heavily survey based, unlike the "Toughest Schools to Get Into" ranking. </p>

<p>Did you really expect to see schools like the one described below at the top of that list (given the above criteria)?</p>

<p><a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/prem/200503/douthat%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/prem/200503/douthat&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>P.S. The Atlantic Monthly and the PR ranking had different criteria but same result. A coincidence? I think not.</p>

<p>Well, Princeton is no longer experiencing massive grade inflation.</p>

<p>One other factor people might consider: I don't know what it's like at Yale, although I see comments on these boards now and then, but Princeton students, although ambitious, tend to be very supportive of one another. It's an intense environment but not a cutthroat one. That seems to be true even since the grade percentages were instituted.</p>

<p>My Princeton tour guide totally turned me off from the school. When asked why she chose Princeton, she replied, "because it's in such a nice, cute town and because my dad went to Princeton too". Go figure. </p>

<p>Also, (and this is a problem at Yale too) there is this huge insecurity thing regarding Harvard. Students go out of their way to prove that they're better than Harvard or Yale. My tour guide spent a huge part of the tour putting down H&Y in a very nasty, condescending way. If you're so sure that Princeton is number one, why the need to prove it to every stranger? Why the insecurity?</p>

<p>I definitely have to agree with crimsonbulldog on this one:</p>

<p>
[quote]
Go to Princeton, but not because its ranked #2 in the Atlantic Monthly or PR or #1 in USNEWS. God no. Go because its the best for you. At this level, that's all you can do. Trying to say one is better than the other is just plain naive.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You have to pick the one that's best for you, guys. Not what some stupid magazine said is better. I know there are good friends of mine for whom the local community college is going to be so much better for them than Princeton or Yale or any other school could be for them. Matriculation is so subjective, and you should really think of it in terms of what you want and what you're looking for, not because someone else said such-and-such university is better than another because of random stats that, in my opinion, should have little bearing on your decision.</p>

<p>cncm. You should declare your harvard bias (the same bias indicated in your archived posts). Perhaps you should also pay attention to the Harvard site where there are no fewer than 5 older, adults lobbying teenagers there on a daily basis. Talk about insecurity!</p>

<p>pcessly, you should declare your princeton bias then too. And I'm Yale biased, and Byerly is Harvard biased, and well, isn't everyone? That's not really a valid point - everyone has an opinion.</p>

<p>the ranking of students happiness that put harvard fourth from the botton was an internal memo, such surveys are done every year at a majority of the ivies and only the top administration officials at each school are supposed to be privy to its results; this year the results leaked and that is why ppl know about them</p>

<p>Can you believe the story found its way to China?</p>

<p><a href="http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:znRWOH2y3FUJ:www.beijingportal.com.cn/7838/2005/03/31/1820%402576112.htm+%22Harvard%27s+overall+student+satisfaction+comes+out+to+3.95%22&hl=en%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:znRWOH2y3FUJ:www.beijingportal.com.cn/7838/2005/03/31/1820%402576112.htm+%22Harvard%27s+overall+student+satisfaction+comes+out+to+3.95%22&hl=en&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>To pcessly - my harvard bias my butt. I believe you're talking about a post I made recently about how H has more prestige than Y internationally...that's a fact, not a bias. I don't think anyone here would want to argue that. Besides that post...can you find any other that clearly indicates my so-called Harvard bias? For your information, I applied to Yale EA. I only posted on this thread because of all this "Princeton is best cos we're ranked number 1" crap. Princeton is a great school, but just because it's ranked number one in a few magazines doesn't mean it's the best. As I said in another post: rankings change every year, whereas you don't get to change your college every year. If you're basing your decision on which college is ranked higher...then, well...good luck with that.</p>

<p>Cncm: Your post of the other day:</p>

<p>"Accepted: Harvard, Yale, Penn, Cornell, and Amherst.
Still waiting on Princeton (damn its no-online decision policy"</p>

<p>Were you spurned at Princeton? Good luck where ever you go.</p>