<p>YALE! It makes room for waitlisted me at Princeton!!!</p>
<p>Iki, you asked on the other thread about a book set at Yale. Read "Joe College" by Tom Perrotta.</p>
<p>"Yale secret societies are not part of campus life, nor do they constitute any sizeable part of the undergraduate population save around 10% of the SENIORS only. On the other hand, eating clubs, and all of their pros and cons, constitute the core of social life at Princeton for ALL upperclassmen."</p>
<p>crimsonbulldog, that is precisely my point. Since the eating clubs are the core of social life for ALL Princeton upperclassmen (underclassmen too, arguably), and over half the clubs are sign-in, it is senseless to call the system elitist. It is somewhat selective, and somewhat expensive (for members), but the street as a system is open to all.</p>
<p>Crimsonbulldog - can you post that NY times article on here? I can't read it.. you gotta be a member = (.</p>
<p>u can sign up for free, it just asks for ur email (to be a member of the NY times)</p>
<p>Re how expensive eating clubs are, we did a little checking around after the bill arrived for a bicker club (it's a couple of thousand more than the regular meal plan) and found that, since Princeton's tuition, room, and board, were the lowest in the Ivies, the extra cost of the eating club actually just brought the total up to a year some other Ivies. For example, the Princeton site gives the total annual cost (without the eating club but with a regular meal plan) as $41,380. The Brown site gives the total annual cost as $44,530. </p>
<p>Yale's cost is $41,470 , according to its website, so it is also one of the less expensive ones. However, keep in mind that when you are in an eating club at Princeton you basically have few other social expenses. You can go there for parties, dinner, formals, billiards, etc., and all is included. Students do go out to the various Thai and Indian places as well as the microbrewery, pubs, Starbucks, etc., on Nassau Street, and to the excellent movie theater on the edge of campus that gives them a student discount, but their social expenses are very low. Students get discount or free tickets to just about every performing arts event on campus as well as at the McCarter. </p>
<p>If I were to distinguish between Yale and Princeton, I would not do it on the basis of elitism at the latter. These schools are all bastions of privilege in my book. I would say that Princeton has more of the feel of an undergrad liberal arts college, where undergrads are like kids in a candy store, with the incredibly glittering faculty there pretty much just for them. </p>
<p>Someone asked about humanities. Princeton has a wonderful humanities program, for those who are seeking that, included nice summer grants, amazing journalism faculty, and a major, comprehensive course like Yale's Directed Studies: <a href="http://www.princeton.edu/%7Ehumcounc/http://www.princeton.edu/%7Ehumcounc/%5B/url%5D">http://www.princeton.edu/~humcounc/http://www.princeton.edu/~humcounc/</a></p>
<p>Yeah, the Humanistic Studies sequence (or HUM sequence for short) is comparable to Yale's DS. I'm really hoping to do it next year. Princeton's got a great humanities program (spearheaded by the Council of Humanities, which according to its chair is unlike anything found at any other colleges or universities).</p>
<p>For those not to impressed with the "soft" discussions, here are the facts. No major national ranking publication puts Yale ahead of Princeton (close but no cigar).</p>
<p>US NEWS</p>
<ol>
<li>Princeton</li>
<li>Harvard</li>
<li>Yale</li>
</ol>
<p>ATLANTIC MONTHLY</p>
<ol>
<li>MIT</li>
<li>Princeton</li>
<li>CatTech</li>
<li>Yale</li>
<li>Harvard</li>
</ol>
<p>Princeton Review</p>
<ol>
<li>MIT</li>
<li>Princeton</li>
<li>CalTech</li>
<li>Yale</li>
<li>Harvard</li>
</ol>
<p>The Nation's Best Selling Student Review Guide (not allowed to be mentioned here - a competitor)</p>
<p>A+ Princeton
A+ Stanford
A+ MIT
A+ Williams
A Yale</p>
<p>Crime Stats (courtesy of CBulldog in CC archives)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.stalcommpol.org/data.html?*%5B/url%5D">http://www.stalcommpol.org/data.html?*</a></p>
<p>If you are so shallow and simple-minded to base your college choice on the Atlantic Monthly or USnews or, god forbid, the psychotic Princeton Review (who hands down have the most absurd rankings out there), then I doubt you even had the caliber to gain admission to Princeton. And obviously the best students don't as they continue to pass up Princeton easily for Harvard (and according to a certain survey maligned by pcsessly, I mean alphacdcd, yale as well). At this level, one should choose a college by how good of a fit it is. </p>
<p>As for eating clubs, I disagree with many people on this board, how can one avoid the elitism of a system that is 50% bicker?</p>
<p>edit: ircok, I posted excerpts of the NYTimes article on the Yale board, under a thread entitled NYtimes on New Haven. Read the harvard crimson op-ed today, it had a nice piece on being unhappy in cambridge...</p>
<p>Crimson, Nice try. Millions of people use these rankings. They are on the web sites of many top 25 schools. They are on the radar screen of both High School GCs and college admission reps. They receive attention in the newspapers of the top colleges (Yale included). As far as the PR ranking is concerned, I would hardly call the criteria for that ranking "absurd" (the archives show that you defended the ranking criteria at one point):</p>
<p>Criteria
Princeton Review Admissions Selectivity Rating
"This rating measures how competitive admissions are at the school. This rating is determined by several institutionally-reported factors, including: the class rank, average standardized test scores, and average high school GPA of entering freshmen; the percentage of students who hail from out-of-state; and the percentage of applicants accepted. By incorporating all these factors, our Admissions Selectivity Rating adjusts for "self-selecting" applicant pools. University of Chicago, for example, has a very high rating, even though it admits a surprisingly large proportion of its applicants. Chicago's applicant pool is self-selecting; that is, nearly all the school's applicants are exceptional students."</p>
<p>I respect individual views, but when you're talking about one school versus another I prefer the opinions of those who have been studying schools for quite some time (and whose work has stood the test of time). In that regard, as I have have stated, I have not found one NATIONAL, UNDERGRADUATE ranking publication that places Yale ahead Princeton. In fact, in the other big college guide, FISKE, it states that Columbia is gaining ground on Yale's position among the IVY's BIG 3 (HYP).</p>
<p>Finally, with regard to your comment about people opting for Harvard and a certain study promoted by a certain individual there, I have already addressed that at the harvard site. The survey might have some applicabilty to both Yale and Harvard since they are both EA schools (oranges and oranges) but not to Princeton, an ED school.</p>
<p>You cannot use cross-admit data to compare ED and EA schools. Once accepted, ED candidates must withdraw all outstanding applications and refrain from applying elsewhere. EA applicants, despite being accepted to their "choice" school, are allowed to go on with the app process and record their rejections of other schools. Some ED schools fill as many as 50% of their slots with ED applicants. Those applicants are not given the opportunity to reject schools.</p>
<p>Having said all of the above, I do like Yale. It is a great school and I do prefer it over Harvard. But at the undergraduate level, I agree with the national publications.</p>
<p>crimson - the only eating club that is actually "selective" is ivy, the other bicker clubs basically admit anyone lol</p>
<p>many people only go to harvard for its name. the social life blows. basically ur trading happiness for 4 years for a name-brand stamp</p>
<p>Shrek2004 -- Really? I read in a recent Prince article (last year, I think) that almost all of the bicker clubs take around 50% of the applicants. </p>
<p>Princeton seems to have a reputation for a less intellectual atmosphere than Yale's. That is, less interest in schoolwork and other thinking on the students' part, less discussion of class things outside of class, and so forth. Can anyone confirm, deny or comment? </p>
<p>On a slightly more random note, does anyone have access to a published list of student happiness/satisfaction data at top colleges? I remember there was one in which Harvard placed fourth from the bottom. I've never been able to find the actual list online, though. This might be relevant in that my guess is Princeton would be ranked above Yale on such a thing (I'm basing this guess on my knowledge that Princeton has the highest alumni giving rate.)</p>
<p>Pcessly, this is the same as the post on the yale board (maybe we should just have our own thread warring it out)</p>
<p>Sure these rankings are used, as in for reference and a general guide to good colleges. But in the SERIOUS attempt to choose a college, they have little use to differentiate which school is right for you. Saying Princeton is better than harvard or yale because it is ranked higher is childish, and frankly, superficial as these rankings in no way are able to measure the wider breadth of a college experience. Princeton's higher ranking for "selectivity" means absolutely nothing when it comes to quality. And students agree as the majority of them do not go to Princeton over Harvard or Yale even though it is ranked higher (just look at its RD yield, which trails both harvard and yale even, or the revealed preference study, which you randomly hate because its not "used" by GC, who shouldn't use it in the first place). Choosing Princeton because its ranked higher is like choosing to go to Harvard because it has the lowest acceptance rate. They don't mean anything to the individual applicant, but to cheerleader trolls, they mean everything. </p>
<p>You are obsessed with getting the word out that Princeton is ranked higher. I think your energies would be more served if you actually provided some substance to why Princeton is better rather than flimsy reliance on "useful" rankings.</p>
<p>claret - most people that want to get into a bicker club usually get into one of them. not everyone wants to go to a bicker club and ivy is the most selective by far. </p>
<p>but also claret - besides ivy which has interviews, the rest of the bickers kinda have "hazing" such as TI makes u swallow a goldfish (its the eating club with mainly football players) and capital makes u run a bit but like for those that really wanna be in that eating club and do the "little things they tell u to do" ull get in</p>
<p>at yale, they don't haze you if you want to eat in the "nice" dining hall :), though I hear Berkely is taking up bicker...</p>
<p>whoever said the signin dining halls arent nice? colonial is really popular on campus and has very nice food. the only BAD eating club is cottage, the rest are basically the same with the exception that bicker clubs have better parties :D</p>
<p>Shrek, I usually agree with you, but I doubt anyone would suggest that Ivy, Terrace and TI were "the same." Haven't heard that Cottage is "bad," either. And what is "capital"? </p>
<p>People seem to get into and enjoy the eating club where their friends are. And members of each one socialize with the others. I believe this year's class will also have the option of eating for four years in the residential colleges.</p>
<p>ivy is the only eating club that is more expensive. the other bicker clubs and sign in clubs are around the same price. </p>
<p>they are thinking about closing cottage because no one signs up for cottage anymore. last year only 2 people signed up to be a part of the cottage eating club</p>
<p>ivy costs around 7000 bucks and has very very good food while TI, and sry i got confused with something else i meant cap where the athletes are. most only want to be a part of these clubs for socializing and stereotypes but TI and Cap are known for the worst food (and they are bicker). i meant same as in food not like same as in type of people. each eating club has its own stereotype and attracts its own group of students, sry for the confusion</p>
<p>Shrek, no problem but I think you're confusing Cottage with another club. Anyone who would like to know more about the eating clubs might read this, which was written by students: <a href="http://www.princeton.edu/%7Eppf/guide.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.princeton.edu/~ppf/guide.html</a></p>
<p>Can anyone offer insight into the relative strengths of the philosophy and english departments at Yale and Princeton? I know Princeton's is strong, but that's all anyone seems able to share (and they have amazing creative writing). Any help would be great.</p>