Yale vs Amherst for best undergrad experience?

<p>I'm struggling to decide whether to ED Amherst or EA Yale. In terms of prestige, I know that Yale probably has a bit of a legs up over Amherst (though as an international student, I'm not too familiar with how Amherst is perceived in the states), but I'm determined to put prestige on the back-burner. What I want to know is where I will be able to receive the best undergraduate experience for the next four years. </p>

<p>Both schools appeal to me in different ways. Yale's student atmosphere is incredible, and I love the residential housing and strong school spirit. Of course, the huge array of options available in terms of courses and activities is incredible. But I'm worried I'll get lost in a big university.</p>

<p>On the other hand, Amherst appeals to me due to the small class sizes and open curriculum. However, I am worried that it will offer me less opportunities due to the campus size. Student life will also be less vibrant (I assume). </p>

<p>Some things to consider
1. I am interested in philosophy, classics and international relations.
2. I am an international student, so I appreciate diversity
3. I am planning to go on to law school (preferably Yale law), or at least attending graduate school
4. I want close relationships with my professors, and I thrive in seminar-type classes.</p>

<p>Advice/opinions?</p>

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<p>SCEA to Yale.</p>

<p>It surpasses Amherst in every possible regard.</p>

<p>Indeed, the residential housing system creates a strong sense of community among housemates and a warm feeling of friendly rivalry with residents of other houses–an all-inclusive Old Boys Club. As the Princeton Review rankings reveal, Yale undergraduates are consistently outspoken about the high quality of life they enjoy on campus. You are right about the limitless intellectual and social opportunities–you are wrong about getting lost at Yale. You are right about the “vibrancy” of students at Amherst. Yale draws a certain “type,” the ultra-ambitious with indefatigable work ethic, young men and women who have proven their high potential. That will doubtless be reflected in the quality of classroom discussion and the quantity of intellectual interaction outside the classroom–there’s the active and aggressive exchange of idea engendered by the meeting of such personalities.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Yale’s humanities departments are first rate, and it is an internationally celebrated university.</p></li>
<li><p>Overall, internationals are the most intelligent, hard working, driven, and experienced students at Amherst. The special community tends to be isolated from the rest, and even within the community there are divisions. At Yale, a university with international pull, you will feel relatively more welcome, if only because the international community is larger. Yale may not be as socioeconomically and ethnically diverse as Amherst, but diversity of experiences and perspectives is what matters, and you will have that at Yale too.</p></li>
<li><p>Yale undergraduates receive substantial admission preference from the Law School; it admits more than a quarter of applicants from the College.</p></li>
<li><p>You can develop close relationships provided that you seek them out. At most, you’ll suffer through a handful of introductory courses with 100+ enrollments, but that’s the case even at Amherst.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>You don’t care about prestige, but you should realize that Harvard and Yale crown the Ivy League, and that Yale occupies the pinnacle of prestige in the United States, and is well-respected abroad. Keep that in mind if you want a job after you graduate.</p>

<p>I think there’s a lot to be said for the quality of the education at Amherst, but since Yale SCEA is non-binding I don’t why you wouldn’t try it and you can still apply regular decision to Amherst. You are probably not certain enough about Amherst to apply ED.</p>

<p>If its a toss up or a tough decision, don’t apply ED. Apply EA to Yale, then apply regular to Amherst, and take more time to make the decision.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Student/Faculty Ratio
5:1 - Yale
8:1 - Amherst</p>

<p>Classes with fewer than 20 students
76% - Yale
73% - Amherst</p>

<p>Classes with 50 or more students
7% - Yale
3% - Amherst</p>

<p>I received the following message from the OP, and I want to respond to it to make matters clear for future prospective students considering Yale and Amherst:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Yes, I believe that Yale trumps Amherst in most every respect. At the same time, I believe that Amherst is a great undergraduate institution.</p>

<p>I will clarify.</p>

<p>In truth, both schools have room for improvement with regards to student community and student life.</p>

<p>Without a doubt, Amherst is more culturally and socioeconomically diverse than Yale. The administration’s intense advocacy of such diversity inevitably creates tensions within the student body. Bottom line: administrators could do more to ease these tensions and to create a more cohesive body.</p>

<p>Yale is less diverse than Amherst. However, its residential housing system creates the comforting illusion of solidarity, in the same way that fraternities have in the past. At Yale, you will feel as if you fit in, even if you really don’t fit in.</p>

<p>At Amherst, “fitting in” is not a concern–there is no clearly defined mold to fit into, because the people here come from every imaginable background. For those who come from very, very non-traditional backgrounds, who are not accustomed to reaching out to others actively and aggressively, the transition can be difficult.</p>

<p>I’m arguing simply that Yale creates an important, helpful structure on which one can rely to form relationships, whereas at Amherst one is more or less left to forge one’s own paths. Which can be a great thing, provided that one has that drive and independence.</p>

<p>–</p>

<p>I am not entirely satisfied with class discussion here at Amherst–I am partly to blame, I confess. But, all this may be due to the prevailing culture of our times. These days, young people are intensely fearful of being called out, exposed, or criticized. This mentality causes students to hold back. Especially when the people in your classroom come from every imaginable background and have different levels of intellectual and social preparation, the hesitation kills meaningful exchange. This tends to be the case at Amherst, and may very well be the case at Yale.</p>

<p>I’m arguing merely that there’s a relatively higher proportion of the “intense” type at Yale. Not to say that there isn’t a substantial population of that type at Amherst. These types are more willing to express and challenge ideas–even if they’re just trying to impress their professors–and having more of them in a classroom livens up the conversation.</p>

<p>–</p>

<p>World-renowned faculty, yes. Better education? Not necessarily.</p>

<p>You make the mistaken assumption that employers and admission officers make: there is a causative relationship between program strength and quality of education. I meant that as a Yale student you can exploit this assumption to your advantage–people who matter will be impressed by your education even if you didn’t really get a good education. This helps, especially if you want maximum post-graduate flexibility! This all boils down prestige and the safety net that such prestige provides. Yale is supremely prestigious in the U.S., and is therefore the “safer” choice.</p>

<p>–</p>

<p>Ultimately, this is how I feel about Amherst: Thank you for giving me everything I could possibly want… now what am I supposed to do with it?</p>

<p>You figure it out as you go along. More doors open up, more opportunities present themselves. The more time you spend on campus, the more resources you realize are there. I just wish I had figured it out earlier, and I feel that I have wasted so much before I finally understood what was at my disposal.</p>

<p>I’m sorry if I’ve pushed you away from Amherst. I was just externalizing my regrets. Amherst is really a great place–again, you just have to hit the ground running, not stand around waiting for people and things to come to you.</p>

<p>ilatte, You’d get a phenomenally good education at either Yale or Amherst, but the ambience is quite different. Neither is “better,” but they are different. </p>

<p>“Vibrant” is a difficult word to quantify, but as a general statement I’d say that Yale offers a lot more urban buzz and stimulus. Amherst is more insular, small town nurturing. Both are full of very smart, talented, energetic and multi-faceted kids.</p>

<p>Amherst has done a good job in recruiting diversity, but the surrounding area is predominantly White, predominantly middle class. New Haven is far more racially and economically diverse and New York is more easily accessible.</p>

<p>Yale is also considerably larger than Amherst and of course has several prestigious graduate programs which impact the breadth and intensity of the undergraduate experience. Not necessarily better than the small-class, undergraduate-only focus at a small liberal arts college, but definitely different.</p>

<p>I don’t think you’d “get lost” at Yale because the undergraduate resources are extensive, but I believe that you’d find the atmosphere somewhat more competitive and pressure-filled than Amherst’s.</p>

<p>You will perform better academically at the school at which you are the comfortable culturally, and your grades are what will get you into graduate school. Again, this is a fit issue that only you can determine.</p>

<p>Seven years ago my son was in a similar situation, intrigued by Yale, but drawn to Williams. He chose ED at Williams and had a wonderful undergraduate experience, academically and socially. Williams opened doors for internships and post-graduate jobs and when it came time to apply to graduate school his professors were there for him with advice and recommendations. He and many of his Williams friends are now in excellent graduate programs. The alumni network continues to amaze.</p>

<p>The only caveat I would add is that you have to look in the mirror and ask yourself “if I pass up the chance to apply early to Yale will I always regret it?” Only you can answer that one.</p>

<p>They are both incredible schools. The main difference is that Yale is a research university while Amherst is a small LAC. Think about what you want in a college, which atmosphere feels right to you, and where you see yourself fitting in the best and pick that school. There can be no bad choice here.</p>

<p>Yale is a stepping stone. Amherst is an experience.</p>

<p>At Yale, you won’t be able to know everyone in your class; there will be huge swatches of the university (including most of the other residential colleges, most of the graduate and professional schools, the sports teams and, the secret societies) that will be off limits to you entirely. But, chances are you won’t mind because so much of what you will be involved with will be superlative – if only in microcosm. </p>

<p>OTOH, if you’ve never had the small town American experience, where everyone knows everyone else (at least by reputation), everyone eats together, and where junior faculty still stand a chance of being awarded tenure, Amherst (or, some similarly situated LAC) may be your last chance before that next turn: life in the Big City. You may not know what you’ve been so well-educated for, but, well-educated you will have been.</p>

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