Yale vs. Harvard: Biology

Colleges and Universities A-Z Yale University
21

<p>rd31,</p>

<p>To know the quality of education at Stanford or Yale, you don't have to go there to get a degree. You can look at their peer assessment score, their faculty's achievement, their graduates achievement, their contributions to the human being.</p>

<p>For the same reason, lots of people talked about politics. Not all of them are politicians. You can not say they are not qualified to talk about politics
because they are not a politician or they have never been a politician.</p>

<p>I think I have been talking about facts and truths. If it seems an insult to some of you Yale people, that simply means some of you Yale people can not take the truth.</p>

22

<p>The OP is shaking his head... and he's not happy about it. please stop the flaming. I started this thread for the sole purpose of receiving some hard facts and numbers leading to an unbiased conclusion about the schools (not just nearly pre-determined/relatively meaningless rankings) or some nice tasty anecdotal evidence. I thank those who have offered their first-hand accounts. Datalook, I think you need to read a bit more about the nature of "facts and truths." Wikipedia is a good start ;). I would surmise that some "Yale people" cannot take "the truth," but the truth needs to be made evident before we can confirm that hypothesis of yours.</p>

<p>So in closing, I'm open for some more Yalie/Harvard student accounts</p>

23

<p>Apologies to the OP.</p>

<p>Datalook, your metaphor is flawed. Politics is readily accessible to the general public; it is up to the people to see all its aspects and judge it. Also, it is true that not everyone is politicians, but there is a reason politicians are the ones who people turn to in learning about politics. Likewise, students of those colleges--people who are actually there and seeing it, are the ones we turn to for true resource. </p>

<p>Not someone sitting at home paying $14.95 for full subcription to USNews.com.</p>

<p>These colleges, however, cannot be correctly assessed unless one actually attended and experienced it for themselves. Peer assessment, faculty achievement and graduate achievement cannot and should not be numerically scaled.** They are simply opinions. Opinions. Please get that through your head.**</p>

<p>Contributions to the human being? How do you even quantify that? What is considered a true contribution to mankind? </p>

<p>You have not been taling about facts and truths. Rather, you ignore every data that disagrees with your petty USNews rankings, and continue to DISREGARD the fact that what you are doing helps no one. I don't know what student wouldn't be offended when people continue to state that their school is not even close to top five in so-and-so, not as good as so-and-so, etc. </p>

<p>** You say things, claiming they are true, while you know that it offends people. You hurt others purposefully, unless you are too blind to even see that. **</p>

<p>Also, Please read my above post and STOP IGNORING IT:</p>

<p>
[quote]
f you are indeed an adult, I question whether you have been acting like one, tearing down other universities and being so eager to point out to high school students the flaws of these institutions. </p>

<p>It is not just a fact. Not. How do you justify your "fact?" By college rankings? What exactly makes those rankings "factual?" Just because some university invented some company, or has some amount of money, or has some professor, doesn't make it "factually" better than another school. In fact, how exactly is Stanford better? It depends on the student's preference--and if you chose where you applied for your bachelor's based on the graduate ranking (which seems to be the resource you countelessly have turned to) of that school, I believe that to be a true flaw, and something that should NOT BE ADVOCATED for High school students. Rankings are an opinion, of which factors of a college is important. Just an opinion.</p>

<p>I'm glad to see that you believe Stanford is an awesome university, because it IS. But so is Yale. "X is better than Y" can never be a fact when it comes to these levels of colleges.</p>

<p>I'm sure people are happy to be at Yale and "enjoying their time there" without you having to tell them to do so, thank you.</p>

<p>If you are truly an adult as you say you are, you have a lot of learning to do from some of the other adult posters on the board, who give sage advice on personal fit, and advocate students to disregard rankings. If USNews is so factual, Stanford, the "US-News #4 school" is a ranking hardly mentioned by yourself . Also, don't be so naive and judge an entire university as a whole based on one poster, please. That's just beyond childish.

[/quote]
</p>

24

<p>The Yale UNDERgraduate (contrary to what Datalook has been arguing) biology program is amazing. I learned more in my one semester of MCDB 120 than I have in all of AP Biology and high school freshman biology. I also had the opportunity to join a research lab in the graduate department. I'm a freshman and I get to do graduate level research on the origin of neural crest cells! </p>

<p>Datalook, the US News methodology for graduate rankings does not confirm anything about the undergraduate program. Believe me, I know the value of the Yale biology program more than you do. All you have are your narrow views and US News rankings that have been criticized since their birth. </p>

<p>Also notice that I stick to WHAT I KNOW. I'm not making comments on Harvard's biology program because I HAVE NOT ATTENDED. Maybe you should stick to what you know. Which is basically nothing other than your oh-so-valuable US News graduate departmental rankings.</p>

25

<p>
[quote]
amb3r,</p>

<p>I said some Yale people are so-so. I didn't say All Yale people are so-so. </p>

<p>I said the co-workers around me from Yale are avaerage. I didn't say all Yale graduates are average. </p>

<p>I hope you are smart enough to understand that.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Every single university on the face of the Earth has average graduates. So by saying there exist Yale graduates who are so-so, you are essentially saying absolutely nothing. We are all extremely grateful for your illuminating contributions to this thread. I hope you are smart enough to understand that.</p>

26

<p>tami,</p>

<p>For a given university, the quality of its undergraduate program can be inferred from its graduate program, especially for a reasearch university. I'll use engineering as an example.</p>

<p>For US NEWS undergraduate ranking in engineering, see
cache:...lnk</a> - Google Search</p>

<p>For US NEWS graduate ranking in engineering, see
<a href="http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/gra...rank_brief.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/gra...rank_brief.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>To summarize, we have
school/graduate<em>ranking/undergraduate</em>ranking
MIT/1/1
Stanford/2/2
Berkeley/3/2
Georgia Tech/4/6
UIUC/5/4
CMU/6/8
Caltech/7/4
USC/8/?
Michigan/9/6
Cornell/10/10
.........
Yale/37/43</p>

<p>So there is no big difference between graduate ranking and undergraduate ranking. The ranking of LACs might be a different story. If a LAC doesn't have a graduate program, of course you can not use its graduate school ranking to infer its undergraduate ranking. </p>

<p>Hence, it is fair to infer the quality of Yale's biology program for undergraduate based on its graduate program. That is the reason I say Yale's biology program is not top 5. Yes, for undergraduate.</p>

27

<p>Alright, let's stop arguing. I don't see a point in going back and forth with someone who doesn't listen or have the courtesy to read what others post. I find that extremely rude.</p>

<p>Go polish your USNews book.</p>

28

<p>although there is a significant difference between 37 and 1 (Yale vs. MIT for engineering) there is NO significant difference if Yale has a graduate ranking of 7 or so in biology and Harvard has a graduate ranking of 2. The differences in biology are miniscule. Coupling this with the subjective nature of the rankings DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO MAKE THE CONCLUSIONS YOU'RE MAKING.</p>

<p>AND just because the trend exists for engineering does not allow you to extrapolate to other departments. Your judgment is ridiculous.</p>

<p>Are you a statistician datalook? I sure hope not.</p>

29

<p>Yale is significantly weaker than Harvard on engineering, but not, I believe, in biology, which is its strongest science department. We need to look at the relevant set of stats.</p>

30

<p>More truths about the quality of biology programs by looking at the prestigious NIH Director's pioneer award winners for different universities:</p>

<p>NIH</a> Director's Pioneer Award - Award Recipients</p>

<p>It has 4 years of data. 40+ biologists have won this award. Unfortunately, none of them is from Yale so far. Harvard, Stanford, MIT, UCSF, Berkeley, JHU, Caltech all have multiple winners.</p>

31

<p>Datalook, those awards are for medical research, and reflect the medical school (and Yale IS on the evaluation committee for the award). Once again, you neglect to consider undergraduate biology. You also neglect to consider all of the awards Yale biology faculty have won. Take a look:</p>

<p>Medicine@Yale</a> - Awards & honors
Yale</a> Daily News - Biology professors receive prestigious award for genetics research
Yale</a> Medicine-Faculty News
Two</a> Yale RNA experts receive Ellison awards: Medicine@Yale, May/June 2007
among COUNTLESS others.</p>

<p>Just because Yale isn't represented in an obscure MEDICAL award (which is NOT representative of an entire undergraduate biology program), it hardly says anything about the undergraduate biology program. FYI, Biology is a broad discipline. Human medicine is a small branch.</p>

<p>Your desperate attempts to prove your empty assertions will never fail to amuse me.</p>

32

<p>Nice use of words to beef up your comment, datalook. I only see 1 from Caltech, not "multiple winners." I can't seem to find the one from JHU. Half of your Stanford winners teach at the med school, same goes for Harvard. And...is that 1 for UCSF as well?</p>

<p>Also, winning an award does not always a great professor, make.</p>

33

<p>Look at it carefully, multiple winners are from UCSF, Caltech, and JHU (prof. or Ph.d). Again, Yale has no connection to NIH pioneer award.</p>

34

<p>Don't you ignore my comments datalook. and yes, Yale DOES have a connection to the NIH pioneer award since a Yale faculty member sits on the evaluation committee!</p>

<p>why are you throwing around this word "again"? do you think it adds to your argument? it's as if you've been making valid points all along! Not. True. you've provided one incredibly narrow example that implies nothing about the OVERALL undergraduate biology program!</p>

<p>Why don't you acknowledge my last post? Are you speechless?</p>

35

<p>Because you often need people to post twice before you read what they actually write:</p>

<p>"Winning an award does not always a great professor, make."</p>

<p>Datalook, I have a question: what happens if a student attending Stanford never has that award-winning professor, but instead gets a different professor?</p>

36

<p>
[quote]
although there is a significant difference between 37 and 1 (Yale vs. MIT for engineering) there is NO significant difference if Yale has a graduate ranking of 7 or so in biology and Harvard has a graduate ranking of 2. The differences in biology are miniscule. Coupling this with the subjective nature of the rankings DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO MAKE THE CONCLUSIONS YOU'RE MAKING.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>According to US News biology ranking for graduate, the #2 Harvard has a peer assessment score 4.8, while the #7 Yale has a score of 4.5. A gap of 0.3 is not very big, but still significant. When it comes to undergraduate, I just don't believe Yale will magically get even with Harvard by overcoming a gap of 0.3.</p>

37

<p>
[quote]
Datalook, I have a question: what happens if a student attending Stanford never has that award-winning professor, but instead gets a different professor?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think going to Stanford will give you a better chance of being taught by an award winning professor. If you want to take a lesson from a professor who has won NIH pioneer award, you can find 9 of those at Stanford, while you can not find any at Yale.</p>

38

<p>Datalook, why don't you understand that the NIH pioneer award is from the National Institutes of HEALTH. This means MEDICINE. This is not representative of UNDERGRADUATE BIOLOGY. Get over yourself. </p>

<p>You continue to ignore many of my points. You only reply to the ones you can answer. (There you go again with your oh-so-reliable US News PA.) The Peer Assessment is again for GRADUATE Departments. You cannot extrapolate for the undergraduate department in biology like you can for engineering. Stop pretending to be some kind of statistician. </p>

<p>The OP has already mentioned that she wants to hear from Harvard and Yale students about the departments. This is what actually matters, not your meaningless rankings and your one obscure example of an award in medicine. According to my last post, which you continue to ignore, Yale faculty have won numerous awards and recognition in the broad discipline of biology (NOT JUST MEDICINE). You fail to acknowledge this because you are so incredibly narrow minded.</p>

<p>Any idiot can go scout out information on the internet that somehow makes Yale look significantly weaker in the graduate biology department. If the OP wanted this information, he/she could have done this him/herself. You are not qualified to use information in graduate areas to comment on the undergraduate biology department. The OP wants STUDENTS who have first-hand experience to comment. This does not include you, Datalook. So please quietly leave this forum as your misguided comments are of no use to anyone.</p>

39

<p>When we do Yale vs. Harvard or great school vs. great school threads, my initial reaction is, "get in first, then we'll talk."</p>

<p>If this issue is really bugging you, I suggest you spend some time with the biology department websites of each school. What courses are offered? What are professor specialties? Where did those professors do undergrad and graduate work? What do you think qualifies a "good" biology program? (Lab opportunities, good professors, field opportunities, med school placement?)</p>

<p>Do what you can to find data on professors and quality of teaching. Some schools might have online course evaluations that are open to the public (Chicago has online course evaluations that were open when I was a high school student, but they have since been blocked off). Look for other things-- professors who win undergraduate teaching awards. Type names into google or wikipedia and see what comes up. (I do this when I research professors for classes I might want to take).</p>

<p>I don't think there is any simple answer to your question.</p>

40

<p>Unalove, I did get in to Yale EA and I have a lingering suspicion that I'll get into Harvard due to the fact that my two apps were virtually identical. I have looked up courses and a few other things, but like the vehemently passionate (in a good way) rd31 has said, I want some personal experiences. BTW rd31, I'm a bonafide male. That is all</p>