<p>I've been lurking on this site for a while now, but this is one of my first posts (I'm also posting it in the other school's forums). I'm a senior in Washington State, looking to go into business/finance in the future and probably major in economics. A little about me: 4.0 uw, strong extracurriculars for the field, and recently received a 36 on the act, which was a major bump up from my SAT score. I hadn't really even considered the ivies since I didn't think that I would be competitive, but now that I stand a better chance (I know, test scores aren't everything and aren't really even relevant after a certain point, but still).</p>
<p>So basically, I want to know what is the case for Yale over the other tops schools. Or vice-versa. I'm also interested in how the social/party scene compares, as well as the vibe as the campus (don't have the money to fly out to the east coast to visit schools). I'm just having a hard time discerning what distinguishes Yale over the other ives, because obviously the academics are going to be top-notch at all of them. If anyone has some insights from the economics department that would be great.</p>
<p>By the way, I am also considering Penn and have done quite a but of research on it, but am interested in learning more about the other ivies that don't have an undergraduate business school. </p>
<p>Do you like ice cream? What is your favorite flavor? Some kids prefer chocolate to strawberry or vanilla. It’s the same with HYP. May I suggest you do your due diligence and investigate the economic courses being taught at each school and the professors who are teaching them. For example, if you would like to study with Paul Krugman or Alan S. Blinder, then Princeton is for you, as they don’t teach at Yale.</p>
<p>Harvard - don’t know, my kid was not at all interested. You are either a Yale or Harvard aspirant - it is the grandest of the collegiate rivalries and you cannot like both these schools - haha! Gibby will disagree.</p>
<p>Princeton - The social scene seems more “competitive” because of eating clubs and the Manhattan private school atmosphere. The town is milquetoast.</p>
<p>Penn - feels more like a top notch State school - perhaps because of more pre-professional programs. Philly is a cool town for students.</p>
<p>Yale - felt like the “friendliest” school, residential college system creates strong friendships and bonds to the school. Kids also have fun in ways other than traditional “party” methods but not too nerdy either. Great location.</p>
<p>Columbia - Cool location, of course, but a terrible campus feel. The large number of very wealthy foreign students may influence campus life? Just guessing.</p>
Yes, I do. I actually think there are more similarities than differences between HYP, so it is possible to like all three schools. However, all three schools may not be a perfect “fit” for every student. (For example: I think my daughter, who is at Harvard, would have been much happier at Yale, and my son at Yale might have been happier at Harvard, but the Admissions Offices at both schools didn’t think so – and didn’t give them a choice in the matter.) </p>
<p>Aside from Columbia’s vibe, there is the core-curriculm, which is not for every student. And UPenn doesn’t have great housing options past freshman/sophomore year.</p>
<p>If a student is blessed with acceptances to all five schools, I would suggest going to the invited weekends (or visiting on a weekend when nothing special is going on) to re-evaluate which college would be the best fit. Most students are rejected from all five schools, so the decision is rather theoretical until you hold a bunch of fat envelopes in your hand.</p>
<p>Re Columbia. When the rep came to my son’s high school, almost the first thing out of her mouth was that Columbia guarantees 4 years of dorm space availability. Probably because one of the first things on the audience’s mind was NYC cost of living. </p>
<p>I would agree with Gibby… in fact, at a session, the schools were asked this question and they could not really give an answer as to their differences (HYP and UVA). The reps said they are more similar than not and the differences are minor. Location may be a factor; Princeton, Columbia and Yale are all quite different but that may not matter to some students. The great peer group, vibe and support are commonalities at these schools. I did not realize Columbia had a bad vibe; my son loved the vibe when he visited. It was the first school he fell in love with, but not the last. He would be thrilled to attend any of these schools. </p>
<p>Op,
For majors, Penn’s is more pre-professional business, so more of the actual stuff that you would be using for work. HYP are more econ majors, so more theory, but well worn paths into finance/business where you would learn more on the job. Columbia would be easy to do internships even during the school year. And yes, C has the core of classes that everyone must take.</p>
<p>For surroundings:
H great college small city/town with a ton of students who attend the 12 or so surrounding universities
P in the middle of a suburb
Y in the middle of a gritty, industrial city
Penn middle of a great city
C middle of awesome city</p>
<p>Social:
H finals clubs
P eating clubs and some greek
Y few greek, some secret societies at jr and sr yr
Penn lots of greek, very social in the greek sort of way
C kids can go into city often for distraction or to explore rather than hanging on campus</p>
<p>Vibe:
H Competitive, networking
P Country Club, grade deflation (although I think that they will stop this)
Y artsy, indie
Penn friendly
C Hard working, hard charging</p>
<p>My D1 is a student at Columbia and loves having a campus inside the city. No bad vibes for her. She also really likes the Core so it just depends on personal preference. D2s top choice is Yale (if she can get in, obviously) She didn’t like her visit to Harvard. Columbia is also in the running for her. I think, OP you really need to visit these schools if not now, then if accepted. Pros and cons to all depending on what you want for your college experience.</p>
<p>I also think the similarities among HYP are much greater than the differences. Personally, I like the residential college system at Yale, and dislike the eating clubs at Princeton, but these are not really huge differences. I like Boston better than New Haven or Princeton, but not enough to make the difference. Honestly if you feel you have a shot at one of these schools, apply to all of them, and if you get into more than one of them, then you can look more deeply.</p>
<p>I’ll just give you my perceptions of the social scenes as a current Yale student. Can’t speak to Econ so much as I am a science guy. But honestly among these ivies Yale and Penn are the most fun socially. Harvard and Princeton are a lot more “competitive” (read “exclusive”(read “d*uchey”)). You can’t just walk up to a party and get in at Harvard (finals clubs) or Princeton (eating clubs). At Yale, social stuff happens right in the colleges, and at houses off campus, and there’s usually always something to do. Penn seems like a lot of fun too, I can tell they have a lot of fun, definitely a more pre-professional vibe though (although honestly, recently Yale is more pre professional than you would think, lots of wannabe consultants and private equity types). Columbia social scene isn’t as great until you can go to bars because there’s just not off campus houses there in the way there are at Yale. (and the dorms are more state school reminiscent) </p>
<p>I believe you all are forgetting about Brown. My sister goes there, and I have to say, it’s an amazing atmosphere. She explained to me that students don’t have to choose their major until the end of sophomore or junior year. Thayer Street has authentic shops, and restaurants, but of course, well known shops as well.</p>
Gibby,
My daughter is choosing between Harvard and Yale for the upcoming year. Gibby, could you elaborate what were the “fit” questions. It has always seemed to me that Harvard had more Type A’s. (Not that Yale does not have it share.) I know that when I was at Harvard, there were lots of kids who were not happy. The iron law of averages is that one half of the students at Harvard, who were at the top of their class in High school, will be in the bottom half. For some that adjustment is really brutal.
Congratulations to your daughter for such wonderful choices!
My daughter applied SCEA to Yale and was deferred, then rejected. She also applied to Princeton (waitlisted) and Harvard (accepted). My son was rejected at Harvard (even though his sister attends the school) and accepted to Princeton and Yale. So each, in a way, is playing the hand they were dealt.
Throughout the past four years, I’ve often wanted to call the HY Admissions Offices and say “You’ve made a mistake, can you just switch them please.” That’s because I think Harvard is easier for men than women. It’s still very much an old-boys network, with the male final clubs, all male hasty pudding, etc.
You should also read this from Marina Keegan http://yaledailynews.com/crosscampus/2012/05/27/keegan-the-opposite-of-loneliness. I don’t know of any Harvard student, past or present, who has written such a love letter to their school and administration. My daughter wishes she could have found that at Harvard and is very jealous of the friendships that my son has made at Yale.
Your daughter will definitely have a feeling for one school over the other. If you have any specific questions, I’d be more than happy to try to answer them.
Congrats on some great scores. I’m sure you would be a competitive applicant anywhere. I was in the fortunate position not too many years ago to be choosing between Penn, Yale and a few other ivies and I ended up choosing Penn for a whole bunch of reasons. I apologize in advance for stealing focus from this thread as OP already knows about Penn- but we can always learn more . Some things to consider:
Penn is literally (and figuratively, and literally in that figurative way) nothing like a "top notch state school." Though it does have a name reminiscent of a state school's, Penn's campus culture/academics/career outcomes/Funding & endowment/etc. etc. etc. is no more like "a top notch state school" than Columbia is like a country in South America. For proof, definitely visit Penn and then visit some top notch state schools like UVA and Berkeley. You can't even lump all top notch state schools together as they also differ SO much. But Penn is far more similar to schools like Yale, Columbia, and Georgetown than it would be to Virginia or Cal.
Penn's social life is influenced primarily by the clubs on campus, then the Greek system, then Philadelphia in that order. Students usually socialize with friends they make from their College Houses and extracurricular activities. They do everything from watch a movie in their dorm rooms to host parties at club affiliated houses off campus with these groups. About 27% of students are directly involved in Greek Life but everyone is permitted to go to their parties, social events, and charity/philanthropy events, making campus life even fuller for students looking to go a little wild- even if they don't want to pledge. Finally, Philadelphia has incredible bars and restaurants that are tons of fun and won't break the bank (like bars and restaurants in NYC). Philly is a BYO city which means you can even bring your own bottle of wine, case of beer, or box of Franzia (If you're tryna turn up) to a restaurant and enjoy the good times. Additionally, there are always events being hosted by the University or by your College House that add to the social scene even more. Phlly also attracts tons of theater, art, concerts, etc. etc. etc. You'll never be lacking for culture but Philly's small size and Penn's enormous presence in the city means you won't be forced to stay on campus or go off campus for social life. You can create a balance according to your preferences. Being social at Penn is a prerequisite and it's very easy to have a good time.
Penn is definitely pre professional (all of the Ivies are pre-professional but Penn probably takes the pre-professional cake among HYP, Columbia and Penn). The presence of three undergraduate schools that lead directly into specific professions and one school of liberal arts definitely makes for a more pre-professional vibe. As a liberal arts student I found that refreshing as it often forced me to consider how more esoteric subjects might have real world applications and meanings. Additionally, Penn's career services (and career outcomes) are second to none. If business/finance is your passion then Wharton is obviously an outstanding choice and the College would also position you well for those jobs. All undergrads share the same career services and partake in the same On Campus Recruiting activities which means everyone has an equal shot at the big banks and students who strive for those opportunities usually get them, regardless of discipline. (For more info on job/grad school placement check out http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/reports.php )
Penn academics are unique in that you are able to take courses in any one of Penn's undergard and graduate/professional schools, with a few exceptions, which means you can broaden your education in a way that wouldn't be possible elsewhere. So around 41% of your classes as a Wharton student will actually be taken outside of the business school. That means you are getting a truly well rounded education. It also emphasizes the fact that Penn truly values an interdisciplinary education while possessing the resources to make that education possible. I was a History and English major with an interest in government so I took classes in both disciplines and supplemented those courses with classes in Wharton's Business and Public Policy department, the Law School, and Penn's Fels Institute of government. Consequently, I felt fulfilled intellectually and prepared for the real world in which I would be tackling problems from many different angles with solutions stemming from many different disciplines.
Penn housing isn't bad, per se, it just depends on what you're looking for. As a freshman you are placed in one of Penn's College houses which foster great senses of community and have ideal locations near class buildings. After freshman year you can either stay on campus or move off campus. Moving off campus at Penn, however, doesn't mean you are miles and miles away from campus and social life. In fact, usually you are a block away from campus and living the same exact life as students who are on campus. With so many kids living in the houses immediately off campus, it doesn't really feel like you've left the campus at all-- and Penn security guards patrol much farther into Philly than most students even venture (which is unfortunate because West Philly is beautiful and full of fun things to do!) For more on that, check out this thread: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-pennsylvania/1771013-percentage-of-u-g-living-on-campus.html#latest -- Essentially, if you choose to stay on campus, you will love it. If you choose to move a block away from campus, you'll love that too. Penn just makes it so that you have a genuine choice between living styles and neither is superior to the other. It does, however, differ widely from the residential college system of Yale (Penn students have residential college houses but they only have real meaning during your freshman year).
At this level of academics you should really choose for fit. Some people were surprised I chose Penn over Yale because Yale obviously has better name recognition (Though I wasn't alone. Almost half of cross admits will choose Penn: http://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=University+of+Pennsylvania&with=Yale+University). But if you want to succeed in college, you need to be happy. And if you want to be happy, you need to choose a school that works for you as a person. Do you want a larger school or smaller school? Do you like urban, rural, or suburban life? Do you like eating clubs, fraternities, sexpowergod parties? All of these little things actually matter a lot because at the end of the day if you aren't comfortable you have missed an amazing opportunity to live a very full life for four years. Finally, every Ivy offers unique opportunities and experiences. Make sure you investigate those fully because while we are all in one athletic conference, the experiences you might have at one could diverge deeply from those you might have at another. Academically, you can't go wrong with any of them though- so take solace in that!
Hope this helps both OP and any prefrosh looking at this tread
Closing this thread. OP is a senior and has received all college decisions.Therefore, the hypothetical is now out of play, and further advise on the subject is not needed.
. Some things to consider: