Yes, I'm a liberal. But...

<p>"In 1999 Tony Martin, a 55-year-old Norfolk farmer living alone in a shabby farmhouse, awakened to the sound of breaking glass as two burglars, both with long criminal records, burst into his home. He had been robbed six times before, and his village, like 70 percent of rural English communities, had no police presence. He sneaked downstairs with a shotgun and shot at the intruders. Martin received life in prison for killing one burglar, 10 years for wounding the second, and a year for having an unregistered shotgun. The wounded burglar, having served 18 months of a three-year sentence, is now free and has been granted £5,000 of legal assistance to sue Martin."</p>

<p>PLEASE bring this wonderful gun control to the USA!</p>

<p>First of all, you cant read from your own link. The US is 8000, not 20000.</p>

<p>Second of all, there are many other violent crimes that don't involve guns. Who cares if gun crime goes down if the other types go way up!?</p>

<p>hahahhaa yea my bad. </p>

<p>keep in mind that isnt violence, that is MURDERS</p>

<p>We have 8,000 MORE FIREARM MURDERS per year than Britain.</p>

<p>Ill take equal to slightly more crime and less murders any day of the week.</p>

<p>Murders With Firearms, not murders overall. </p>

<p>You really want more raping, more mugging, more kidnapping? I'd rather give everybody the opportunity to defend themselves as they see fit.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>murders overall per capita. </p>

<p>.043 to .014 per 1,000 people.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_ass_percap-crime-assaults-per-capita%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_ass_percap-crime-assaults-per-capita&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Assaults per capita---exactly equal.</p>

<p>Crimes per capita--higher in britain.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_percap-crime-total-crimes-per-capita%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_percap-crime-total-crimes-per-capita&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>So whats your point? That gun control works mighty well doesnt it!!</p>

<p>Whats better...less gun murders, less murders overall, equal assualts and more crime...or MUCH more gun murders, more murders overall, equal assaults and a less crime?</p>

<p>plus, keep in mind that i said i didnt want as restrictive gun control, just tighter than what it is now, coupled with better trafficking control...something we are also lacking in.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Whats better...less gun murders, less murders overall, equal assualts and more crime...or MUCH more gun murders, more murders overall, equal assaults and a less crime?

[/quote]

Fewer murders...anyway..Britain had similar stats before they banned guns..say, in the early 20th century. If you restrict guns, criminals wont follow rules. Can't you get that simple concept?</p>

<p>Believe me, guns are pretty restricted in the pinko states right now. I live in upstate NY, and its pretty restrictive. I can't imagine what its like in Mass or Ca..</p>

<p>Its easy to control guns in a rural environment...go to NYC and its a different story.</p>

<p>You do know that Britain's firearm murder rates have gone down while EVERY OTHER VIOLENT CRIME has risen due to victim disarmament - burglary, mugging, rape, breaking/entering, etc.</p>

<p>Neverborn, GH and I already discussed that.</p>

<p>Sorry, I came in late. My bad.</p>

<p>It's such a shame that people have so grossly misinterpreted the Second Amendment. The founding fathers thought they were clear when they granted everybody the right to own a pair of soft, fuzzy bear arms. Tsk, tsk. But in all seriousness....nevermind, I'm too late for this conversation.</p>

<p>The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed;..." Thomas Jefferson letter to Justice John Cartwright, June 5, 1824. 1824. ME 16:45.</p>

<p>"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788 </p>

<p>"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves …"
Richard Henry Lee
writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic, Letter XVIII, May, 1788.</p>

<p>"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …"
Samuel Adams
quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, "Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State"</p>

<p>"Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
George Washington
First President of the United States </p>

<p>"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
Thomas Paine</p>

<p>"The great object is that every man be armed." and "Everyone who is able may have a gun."
Patrick Henry
American Patriot</p>

<p>"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States </p>

<p>"The best we can help for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
Alexander Hamilton
The Federalist Papers at 184-8</p>

<p>What a shame indeed. The Founding Fathers wouldn't dream that the average American have a gun for anything other than hunting. Such gross misinterpretation!</p>

<p>Elastic Clause baby!</p>

<p>Weak argument baby! </p>

<p>So I guess you are for the illegal wire tappings and the draft too, right? How about a gay marriage banning amendment? Elastic clause!!!</p>

<p>Think before you say something like that.</p>

<p>Use of elastic clause is based upon viewpoint...so you can use it for anything. "necessary and proper"...I think its necessary and proper for their to be stricter gun laws to control the murder rate in this country.</p>

<p>i doubt others would be opposed of lowering the murder rate...i already provided the stats to back it up.</p>

<p>thats all i need for an argument right there.</p>

<p>I dont think our founding fathers could of envisioned the society that we live in today...thats the entire point of the elastic clause.</p>

<p>Nope. 94 AWB proved that restricting guns do nothing to decrease the murder rate. So out goes that argument.</p>

<p>You haven't provided stats to back you up. Your stats aid you in the gun category, but then, the data was similar before Britain abolished guns. Your stats hurt you, since other crime rates have skyrocketed.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I dont think our founding fathers could of envisioned the society that we live in today...thats the entire point of the elastic clause

[/quote]

Weak argument again. The ffs envisioned a free society, no matter what social or political conditions were. Hell, if the ffs were alive, they would advocate overthrowing the government right now. Incidentally, that is the reason they wanted us to be armed in the first place. </p>

<p>Oh, I think I just set off red flags in the NSA computers. Haha!</p>