While I am very tempted to volunteer in an arena such as this (because I loved volunteering and organizing stuff at the kids’ schools when they were little), I would really hesitate. There’s so much riding on this choice for the kids, and I am one of those people who agonize over making mistakes, no matter how small.
With my own kids I do obsessive research, guinea-pig myself by going back to college (I’m currently applying for scholarships for me just so I can learn where the mistakes are when the kids have to go scholarship hunting), and I STILL mess up.
There’s so much to know, and what you need to know seems to constantly evolve and change. It’s like this crazy game that I’m fiercely trying to keep up with, and when I meet with the GC’s for my kids’ school, it seems they have little to no interest in anything other than the in-state happy medium and checking off boxes. Still gnashing my teeth over the comment “oh she’s one of those smart kids, she’ll do fine”. Uh, no.
if the number is correct on counselor to student ratio it is probably ok at most schools.(480 to 1)
I met with my counselor probably no more than a few times. my first counselor told me to join the army or go to cooking school or something. the one I had senior year was a nice lady but I do not recall her helping more than signing a paper or two for me.remember most students barely use the guidance department.(minus the highly competitive high schools) my mom was really my guidance counselor. I wanted a school in new england and I was not a tier 1 student. she wanted to find the best fit for me. she actually was pretty hands off and let me choose .she did over ride me on one school after visiting it …she said no! (hindsight my mom was right)
My guidance counselor is so awful at working with high stats students. Instead of helping us do what WE want to do, she pushes the SUNY system on us and stays private schools are not worth the money. When we say we want to go to private school, she discourages it.
My son’s guidance counselor is so wise, warm, informative and all around fantastic that we are having a custom gift basket made for her to thank her for everything she has done for my son. You have all reminded me to make sure she knows that we appreciate what she’s done for him over the last four years.
I thought I made it clear that this was IN NO WAY the fault of the mother. She was given bad advice for HER kid. Maybe fine for others, but leaving out way too much in terms of her kid’s possible alternatives.
@bjkmom, my impression of the local CC is based partially on a number of people I know who have gone there, both adults and HS kids, taking both conventional Gen Eds and vocational courses, and what they have told me about their courses. It is also based on reviewing their course catalog, the experience of an exchange student who lived with us, and upon the way the school is used locally. It is not a CC, as I said, where advanced HS students go to take courses when they have outgrown their own HS. It doesn’t offer those courses. Until recently, it didn’t even offer calculus. All CCs are not the same. There is no need to be defensive.
SMCC does a fine job for many students, especially non-traditional ones, especially in its vocational programs. (It was originally a technical college. In the last decade, they have tried to move it towards being a CC of the type where people can take their lower level college courses and then transfer to U Maine. That is why they have added calculus, for example.) I think it would be a waste of time for an advanced student who had already been taking college courses at USM or elsewhere in HS. Around here, bright students who hit a rough patch or have some issue that keeps them at home usually go to USM, a different school. USM is also the school that has programs for advanced homeschoolers and where some HS students take courses.
BTW, for those that know where I live, let me clarify that this mother and her son live in a different town and he did not go to our HS. The current college counselor at our HS does a much, much, much better job.
@austinmshauri, I’m not sure where your quote comes from but the latest SMCC view book does not list any admissions to Tufts or GWU, nor Bates or Bowdoin, two Maine LACs that love to admit Maine kids. Smith, Mt. Holyoke and Wellesley seem to be on the list because they have special auto-admit programs for non-traditional women students, but it appears only Smith has taken any recent transferees. Most transfer students from SMCC go on to programs in things like hotel management and dental hygiene, and less than 50% of students either graduate within 4 years or transfer to another 2 or 4 year college. This is not a school for the kind of kid Consolation describes.
@Sue22, If you follow the link in my post it takes you directly to the information page of the SMCC website. Its copyright date is 2016. SMCC has formal [articulation agreements](http://www.smccme.edu/tr4nsf3r.html) with several colleges. They also have a [url=<a href=“http://www.smccme.edu/tr4nsf3r.html%5Dlist%5B/url”>http://www.smccme.edu/tr4nsf3r.html]list[/url] of over 400 colleges their students have transferred to since 2009. Among them are:
Boston University
Northeastern University
Smith College
Mass. College of Pharmacy
Syracuse University
Temple University
NC State
SUNY Albany
UCSD
Embry Riddle Aeronautical University
Mount Holyoke
Tulane
Harvard University
Seton Hall
Wellesley College
I don’t know what colleges the student Consolation described is aiming for, but there were some very nice colleges on the SMCC transfer list. However, if her friend isn’t interested in any of those, I suppose s/he will have to look elsewhere.
@consolation Please do considering volunteering. If the local HS will not have you, consider youth organizations or a a local religious organization that hosts a college night. Knowledge is power and so many people simply do not know the ins and outs of the college application/admission/scholarship process. Too many students are going it alone.
I think a lot of people like @Consolation essentially volunteer by responding to questions on college confidential.
One of my overseas coworkers asked me to suggest some community colleges in the US for his son who wants to attend as an int’l student, then transfer to Harvard afterwards.
@Much2learn Unfortunately, not everyone is aware of college confidential or the other books and resources that are available. For many students and parents, the personal face to face contact makes a huge difference. That contact can lead them here where people are so generous to share their time and expertise.
@MotherOfDragons, I get it, but I hope you won’t let your fear of mistakes keep you from volunteering. To be blunt, you won’t believe how basic a lot of the questions will be. You won’t believe the gigantic wrong assumptions kids have that you can correct. As long as you level with the kids when you aren’t sure of the answer, they’re going to be better off after talking to you. It’s unavoidable.
“Instead of helping us do what WE want to do, she pushes the SUNY system on us and stays private schools are not worth the money. When we say we want to go to private school, she discourages it.”
Generally speaking, I agree with that counselor. 95%+ of private schools aren’t worth the money.
How timely, I just contacted another homeschool mom (four of her five are in or have completed college) about hosting a college informational round table for other area homeschool parents. There’s so much miss-information about college in our area. Many of us live “out of district” for the local CC and once the kids are past 12th grade tuition is crazy expensive over $1,200 for a single 3 credit class!
Interesting…I’ve been mulling over the idea of volunteering to help kids and/or parents as well. I’m just not sure what format (once or twice a year presentation/roundtable, or regularly volunteering at the counseling office, or…), and like @MotherOfDragons I’m a little hesitant. While I’m probably more informed than a lot of people out there, I don’t want to misrepresent myself as an expert with all the answers.
Maybe someday, I’ll finally approach the guidance counselor to throw some ideas around.
“Why did you send your child to a private high school?” My friends love to judge me for that. Ha. Ask me why. We have the best college counselor in town who would NEVER recommend a student apply to UT unless she/he was totally right for that school. I know so many young people who’ve gotten screwed over by the “best” high schools in town when it came time for the college talk. So senseless.
@austinmshauri, not to beat a dead horse, but the SMCC articulation agreements are only for specific programs, and unless you’re an older female student you won’t find a single college on that list with a less than 70% admit rate. Roughly half of the schools on the transfer list are other community colleges and many more are schools that admit all applicants.
This student would have been better off applying to one of the three Maine schools that cover full need. According to the College Scorecard the average debt load for a SMCC graduate earning a 2-year degree is $12,500, after which they’d have to scramble to get FA at a 4-year college as a transfer. The typical 4-year degree debt for a Bates student is $17,058, Bowdoin $19,500 and Colby $19,461. At least he didn’t listen to mom and ended up at Maine Orono, the state flagship.
With some exceptions the community colleges in New England are primarily vocational. SMCC is not an exception, offering programs in culinary arts, heating, air conditioning, refrigeration and plumbing, heavy equipment operation, respiratory therapy, hospitality management, fire science and other trades. It doesn’t make it a bad place, but is different from community colleges in places like California which offer courses in disciplines like foreign languages or chemistry in addition to vocational options.
The OP’s point, as I read it anyway, was that this parent received bad information. Unfortunately I’ve seen it happen before. A family gets all excited about an athletic scholarship, not realizing they would have gotten better FA at a needs-only school, looks only at an enticing first year offer, not paying attention to the fact that the student’s COA will rise sharply in year 2, or confuses loans for grants, leaving the student saddled with a huge debt at graduation. It’s sad, and just another way students with savvy parents or from school districts that can afford to have low GC to student ratios have an advantage.
“Instead of helping us do what WE want to do, she pushes the SUNY system on us and stays private schools are not worth the money. When we say we want to go to private school, she discourages it.”
@8bagels “Generally speaking, I agree with that counselor. 95%+ of private schools aren’t worth the money.”
Which is a better deal depends on a lot of details. There is no one size fits all answer for this. Sometimes you have to be assertive with the GC and tell them which colleges you want to consider. Then ask them if there are a few they would like to add to the list.
@austinmshauri, To repeat, my point was not that it is impossible for a kid to do their first two years at SMCC and then transfer. My point was that THIS PARTICULAR KID could, from the sound of it, have been admitted DIRECTLY to such schools, and that he might well have been able to get into a school that would have given him excellent FA. Please note that this kid was indeed admitted directly to the U of Maine main campus, where he has been able to dive directly into engineering and computer science courses and activities that are simply not available at SMCC. SMCC for this particular kid would have been, I repeat, a waste of time.
The mother told me that she had heard that “you have to know someone” to get into Bowdoin. This is ridiculous. I told her that 5 kids from my S’s class got into Bowdoin. It sounds to me like her kid would have had a decent chance to get in, and if he had he would have been much better off financially. But he didn’t even apply, since the mother had been convinced that the best place for him was SMCC.
Please, people, this is not some kind of blanket indictment of this or any other CC. CCs are great for all kinds of people.
@Consolation, I understand what you’re saying and I agree; kids who can get enough financial aid to make 4-year schools affordable should be made aware of that option. I wasn’t and ended up having to work my way through school.
I do think a thread about inadequate counseling is a place to point out that cc’s are excellent options for many students. It’s unfortunate that so many people think cc’s are beneath them. Where do they think all the smart, low income kids go to school? We seem to do a lot of complaining on this site about kids gunning for schools primarily for prestige. I don’t know why we would expect anything different when we fuel the fire. Community colleges are generally viewed as colleges of last resort. We talk about “lesser” schools and “lesser” students, then wonder why families consider taking on debt rather than attend one of those “lesser” schools. I don’t think it should surprise us so much when, as a group, don’t seem to place a lot of value on those other schools.
The current college counselor at our HS does a much, much, much better job.