So what would all of those conscripted 18 year olds be doing?
Indeed, the economy as a whole would probably lose out because the 18-19 year olds would effectively be doing two years of lower skilled labor at a cost of having two fewer years of higher skilled labor after education or training.
I’ve resisted this thread…but I would like to say…I “worked my way through college” graduating in 1973. It was no easy task then, and the costs of my instate public university were very low. I worked two part time jobs in addition to my work study job on campus. I also filled in at places like th dining hall,when they were short on staff. I was a RA for a year too.
In the summers, I worked at least two jobs.
I graduated with $1200 in undergrad debt, which seemed like $100,000 at the time. My annual income at my first job was $5000. Luckily I worked in a job where my loans were canceled for each year I worked…and I think they were actually done in 5 years.
I don’t think it has ever been easy to work ones way through college, especially when housing and food, and utility costs are included.
The vast majority of college grads end up in jobs that don’t require anything more than 7th grade education. A female friend of mine who graduated from Harvard now works for some import/export company filling and passing around paperwork. Why does anyone need a thorough education on 13th century European architecture to grab Master and House bills of ladings + commercial invoice + packing list from overseas to forward to customs brokers? My 8-year-old niece could do that, and it’s a $70,000+/year job…
If we didn’t try to shove every child into college, my friend could have had that job after she graduated from high school.
The worst part is that we’re subsidizing people like my friend for studying crap.
We need to cut down on college grads so that they enter the workplace sooner with no debt.
I don’t know who’s the genius that insisted that McDonald’s cashiers have college degrees, but it’s complete nonsense and unnecessary.
National service could include child and eldercare, health education, cultural work, nature preservation, military service… So much unmet need.
“Free college is proposed to be paid for out of tax increases in the very top income brackets. I have mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, I do not think it is fair to punish success”
Maybe you should look into why the median income in this country (Excluding NEETs, children, and retirees) is only $28,000/year. The hilarious part is that the rich have been making such high profits that the average income in this country including all people is $55,000/year. Our average income is about twice as high as our median income.
You can not have wage increases if there is a labor surplus. Labor shortages ultimately induce wage increases, and having labor shortages is good for the economy, but the influx of immigrants has turned labor shortages into labor surpluses, giving no reason for the rich to increase wages.
So here is my ultimate question: Who has been the primary supporter of lax immigration laws that have diluted the labor market and depressed wages?
Hint: It’s not the bottom 99%. In fact, most Americans back in the 50s and 60s opposed immigration.
Don’t feel too bad about wanting to steal a bit from the rich who are directly responsible for lowering wages and putting the majority of Americans into wage slavery while enjoying record-shattering profits from laws they helped pass.
The rich in this country need to make a compromise. You can not have a free market country with low taxes and high immigration. That is a recipe for economic disaster. If the rich want their immigrants, then we should tax them at 90% and raise minimum wage laws.
The military probably does not want a bunch of two year conscripts (current enlistment contracts are for eight years, though not necessarily all active duty), since there would be little return on the training investment. That would be similar for the other types of work that you suggest.
Plenty of countries have compulsory public service—for some it’s entirely military, but for others each individual can choose military or other service. If it was put into place in the US it’s not like it would be something created entirely anew without any preexisting models to base it on.
We could use the extra labor to harvest wheat, but John Deere and International Harvester would probably squeal too much.
I get that is the plan, but in reality, its still the millenaials paying for their own. Us boomers are almost done retiring, and that means Social Security expense and Medicare will be skyrocketing in the next decade or two. That will suck up most of the 1%'rs taxes. Sorry, not much money left for free education. however, we could just add it to the debt, which the millennial grandkids will pay off. 
Taxes to fund Social Security and Medicare are only levied on labor income (and only up to a certain point for Social Security taxes); since those at the top end of the income scale are more likely to have non-labor income or labor income above the Social Security limit, they get hit less with those taxes than with regular income taxes (although regular income taxes have lower rates for some kinds of non-labor income).
I worked my way through college and graduated with the maximum in loans (Stafford plus National Direct). My parent paid absolutely nothing. Not transportation, not books, not anything. After my freshman year, I also had my own apartment (with roommates). I just looked at an old Social Security statement. During my college years I earned between 4k and 6k each year. There’s no reason a physically capable student can’t earn at least double what I earned back when minimum wage was 3.35 an hour. Yes, it was hard and I worked a lot and I wouldn’t wish my experience on my children. And that’s why we worked hard to make sure our children weren’t in that situation.
I reject the notion that it is impossible to still work one’s way through college. At least for most people. Particularly those in urban areas. It’s a question of sacrificing one’s dream school, working a lot of hours, living at home, and - particularly if you weren’t that great a student in high school - possibly doing community college for two years. I have young family members who are mired in student loan debt (near six figures or higher) and they are very much into the government paying tuition. The thing is that they were all excellent students in high school and every single one of them could have commuted to Temple for free. Some of them turned down free tuition at easily commutable private schools like Drexel, LaSalle, and St. Joe’s. Several of them would have been paid to attend a PA school (i.e. the government would have bought their books) with the PA state grant. But, they wanted the prestige of the big name school.
I feel no sympathy for them. I do feel sympathy for kids who don’t have a free or low cost option due to geography (i.e. living in an area with no commutable options), little or no family support and/or not being a good enough high school student to grab meaningful merit. But I think for the vast majority of college bound kids, at least kids in urban areas, there is still a way to self finance college through hard work, loans, and lower prestige (with some family support for room and board). I know lots of kids commuting locally. They all have jobs. And they’ll all graduate with little or no debt.
The government doesn’t use taxes to pay for public spending.
They issue bonds to the central bank and our taxes go to pay off the interest and part of the outstanding balance of those bonds.
Your tax money goes into the pockets of wall st. banks who own Federal Reserve stocks.
Except there is the small thing like the annual increase in the national debt. While current bonds are paid down in part, the fact is that the federal government continues to issue more bonds every year. So the debt is compounding. Yes, no question that Wall Streeters do ok, but they are (almost) a protected class. (And one quick way to make them do un-ok, is to eliminate bond borrowing; voila, their commissions go to zero.)
In any event, my point was that future generations will be paying (off the debt) for increased spending today, including so-called “free” college.
The difference is that you did not have any parental support (since you could do it living elsewhere), while the student today is more likely to need the parental support of being able to live with the parents.
My kids can NOT pay college on their own. Our PA state schools are costly. Living home and commuting? I live in the Philly region with a ton of colleges, however, even living at home, the tuition rates of these schools is unbelievable. All of our true state schools are in rural areas.
Community College? Over $5,000 per year with the added fees and books. On top of that, a car is needed because our County has little public transportation options to get there.
Summer high school jobs? Non-existent for under 18 year olds in my area except for Sesame Place who pays minimum wage and gives some kids only 10-15 hours week in the height of the season. Oh, and the hours fluctuate constantly.
Back in my day (1980s), I could piece together 3 part time jobs who, even the retail job, was willing to give me a set schedule in order for me to never miss the other jobs.
Parental support comes in many forms, including co-signor an apartments AND utilities. We had no such issues back in the 1980s. Just put down a deposit and you were good to move in.
@Longhaul - Honest to God, if my kids didn’t qualify for at least some decent price cut off the Temple tuition, I’d make them go to community college for a few years. And if they had to take a year off to earn money to buy a car to make that possible, that’s what they’d do. I’m assuming your kids also don’t qualify for the PHEAA or Pell grants? I don’t accept that they can’t get jobs. I don’t live in Bucks county, which, if you’re near Sesame Place, I assume you do, but my kids two counties over have worked steadily from the time they were 14. If you don’t give them any money, they’ll babysit, walk dogs, or mow lawns and shovel snow if there are no waitressing, retail or movie theater jobs available. Hang up a sign with tear offs at the bulletin board at your local Wawa and you’ll have people calling you within the week. Without extraordinary circumstances, there’s no good reason a physically capable child in suburban Philadelphia - who knew he was going to need money for college - wouldn’t have a few grand saved by the time he graduated high school.
There was one very brief period in this country when a kid with zero parental support could put himself through four years of residential college. It lasted maybe 25 years. Part of the reason that window existed was because at that time very few people even tried to attend college. Lucky for you if you happened to hit that opportunity window. That time is gone and will never ever ever come back.
Just like it used to be possible to get lifetime employment with a pension and full union benefits with no college degree and no skills. My Dad had that. I didn’t have that and neither do my kids. In other news, gas no longer costs 25 cents a gallon.
Times change. But today most kids can still get a college degree if they work and they are able/willing to adapt to current reality.
And thanks very much Georgetown for pointing out that a kid today can’t pay the $250k sticker price charged at Georgetown by working a minimum wage job. We actually didn’t know that until you did your in depth study!
Tendencies toward social darwinism scare me.
That is all.
No, we don’t qualify for PHEAA or Pell. My college son choose Bama for the scholarships (HS class of 13 and Temple did not have the scholarships then they have now). I have 2 in high school. Son in high school is hoping to get ROTC scholarship. My daughter will likely go the Community College route.
And there is no way my kids can get work in high school. My son has worked under the table for places that pay when they feel like it. My daughter logged an average of 35 hours a week volunteering at 2 places this summer. She made many connections, but those connections can’t get her hired before 16 - even at the under the table places.
Our local movie theaters hire at 18.
Our town’s babysitting gigs and lawn mowing are taken by ADULTS. Many out of work or forced into early retirement folks in our working class town.
Believe me, my kids are ambitious. They aren’t sitting around playing video games. If you could find them something, they would jump on it. My only condition for their working is that it not cost me money. My son could get hired at a movie theater in South Jersey (35-45 minutes from home), but the catch is, I’d have to drive him and pay tolls. For the hours offered, it isn’t worth it for us as a whole family.
@Longhaul I mentioned teenage unemployment earlier, although it’s past peak now. The people who presumably have the most difficulty finding employment are those who are in high school and looking for their first job. So your last paragraph isn’t too surprising. It does get easier in college to get work experience, especially if you have a work-study.
@halfemptypockets A lot of urban areas don’t really have many higher education options. If you live in New Haven but want to study engineering you can’t commute to Southern Connecticut State University. And Connecticut’s largest city doesn’t have a public university (only a community college), although Metro North helps with commuting to other colleges. Pennsylvania’s cities have more options but students who want to major in something like engineering still have the same problem as in Connecticut.