<p>I was talking to my sister-in-law at a new years party and she asked me about student loans. I told her I had just finished paying mine off. I then asked her about hers, and she said she never had any. I could hardly believe it, as she never had a job in college and studied abroad twice. Fyi, we went to the same school around the same time. </p>
<p>I pressed her a bit more, and she said she always got full pell grants, and always got other help from the University. She said she was usually a shoe-in for help because of her parents financial shape (they aren't rich, but aren't poor either, my parents are slightly better off). Also, she felt that her major helped out (Environment Ed). I told her I the only help I received was from the University for my senior yr (I got a partial scholarship for having the highest GPA amongst CS and Math students). Other than that, I paid for most of it working a 3rd shift factory job (I don't believe either of our parents helped us out). </p>
<p>Still, it bugged me that I worked so hard throughout school to not only get good grades in a strong major, but also to pay for as much of it as I could (I had 10k in loans); while she took an easy major (at least at my school), got mediocre grades, didn't have to work, traveled the globe and came out debt free. Not only that, but she had plenty of time for internships, which I missed out on. Which hurt me quite a bit while looking for a job (I was able to find a paid internship my senior that was closest enough in pay to my factory job for me to take it)</p>
<p>Why are we as a society arbitrarily selecting some kids for the easy path while making other kids work so hard for it?</p>
<p>Btw, maybe its paying off now, as I have found a nice job. She is still traveling around...which I guess I would like to do to...but don't think I can really afford it.</p>
<p>Unfortunately this is a bit like sitting next to someone on an airplane who informs you they paid $100 for the flight when you paid $300 because you booked it earlier/later/whatever. It’s annoying, but so it goes.</p>
<p>Look, I know you are just venting, but who said her life was easy? Maybe you dont know the full story. I definitley get why you are upset. But life is like .that. sometimes you have to get over it. :(</p>
<p>All of the comments are relevant. But yes, it’s not fair. When I went to college, I found out that I was one of the only students on my dorm hall who get a package with no loans and no workstudy. Couldn’t really figure out why. Found out many years later, that my college “grades” accepted students and I happened to be an “A”, coming from a desired geographic, having a rare undersubscribed major, having high SATs, being female at a school predominently male. My roommate came from an area where 40% of the students at that school came from, was in a major that was the most competitive and popular for that school and her scores though high were not as high as mine. So she got work study and loans in her package and I did not. DH also got work study and loans, and the shame of it there was that he was PELL eligible, and came from a disadvantaged part of the state to which the school gave some preferential admissions. I also found out years later, that I had a richer packagage in that I had merit and need, so that my need was more than met, another reason why I did not get any government aid which I believe does not allow that. I turned down two schools that gave me need only packages as they did not give out merit. All of these things I did not know as a student.</p>
<p>So schools pay more for what they want, Then if you qualifiy for outside awards, and PELL and other government money are outside to the school, they will tuck those in the package too. But yes, it is unfair in many ways. It’s also unfair that some kids have parents that will pay for anything the kid wants in terms of school and others have parents that don’t want to give up a dime in current income and an inch in life style to pay for college. Life just isn’t fair.</p>
<p>I understand why this happened (i.e. how EFC works). I just don’t understand why EFC works this way. I don’t want some check for back pay or anything. I just don’t understand why we are trying to make college affordable for everyone by helping out a few sets of people while leaving the other sets to pick up the bill. Seems to not be a good way to make college affordable for everyone. </p>
<p>It doesn’t make any sense to me as to why one kid should be on the hook for full tuition because his parent’s make 10 grand more a year; while the other kid gets a free pass. Especially when the first kid is vastly outperforming the other academically. </p>
<p>I realize life isn’t fair…etc. But it’s not like this system is completely out of our control. I’m just trying to say that, maybe we as a society need to take a step back and realize the perverse incentives/rewards this system creates.</p>
<p>I understand this is a vent thread( although not sure why it is under financial aid as it is only tangentially related), but why are you now upset about something that is past and none of your business?</p>
<p>If you’re arguing that public higher education costs should be lower across the board, and that state universities have been disinvested and slashed to the bone, you’ll find no disagreement here.</p>
<p>But the path forward isn’t to resent the few people who are lucky enough to get decent financial aid - the path forward is to support measures to expand that aid and lower the sticker price of public universities.</p>
<p>Also, you have no business calling environmental education/interpretation “an easy major.” You’ve apparently never taken a class in it, you’ve apparently never worked in the field and you’re apparently just running with uninformed stereotypes. That doesn’t reflect well on your education.</p>
<p>Basically the college/financial aid office gave us the option of not working and thus qualifying for vasts amount of aid and thus graduating with no debt. </p>
<p>Or</p>
<p>We could work, try to pay our own way, qualify for nothing, and then graduate with loans (also having much less free time since we spent our college lives working). </p>
<p>That is the perverse incentive. Also, this is my business, because this is the world I live in. This is my money that I am paying to these schools. I am not mad at my sister-in-law. I am upset at the system that seems to reward people who can jump through hoops as opposed to those who just try to work for it. </p>
<p>Also, people do realize that the way financial aid is working is one of the reasons colleges are so expensive right? The colleges charge large sticker price and then arbitrarily hand out discounts to certain sets of students. That means if you are not one of the chosen few, you pay through the nose. Wouldn’t it just make more sense to have low sticker price and the student is expected to come up with his/her funding?</p>
<p>A full Pell Grant is 5550 per year. Maybe it was less when your SIL went to school. If your parents’ income was $10k higher, than you could argue why didn’t your parents give you a “family Pell of 5500” towards your college costs?</p>
<p>So fix the system by making higher education affordable for everyone. Cap the in-state tuition and fees of all public universities at the level of a full Pell Grant.</p>
<p>If you’re trying to stoke resentment against the very few poor people who hit the education lottery and get full rides to “full-need” schools, you’re barking up the wrong tree.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>And the low-income students who can’t come up with any funding, well, that’s just too bad for them, right?</p>
<p>There are niches that get more money than others. Whether a major is “easy” or not is not the issue when a school favors those students studying that subject. They either have a grant for it, are trying to develop the department or have some other reason that benefits them to encourage students going for that major to come to that school. My major was underssubscribed at my college, so it was a bit of hook whereas at some schools it would have been the most common course of study. It’s all about finding the school that wants you and the time you are looking for the school. If a school has an aggressive classics department chair who is bugging admissions, the classics majors will get a leg up , and if there are classics scholarships available at that school and not pychology ones, well, yes, some students will be so rewarded. </p>
<p>A student is better off with a family that can afford more, in most scenarios, however. A lot of the more selective schools do practice enrollment management to some degree, and it gives the kids flexibility. And anyone who wants to be higher need can quit the job and get rid of enough assets a couple of years before the kids’ college years and enter that lottery as to what financial aid those kids would get. There is a price to everything.</p>
<p>I am not trying to “stoke resentment” on poor people. I thought I made that clear by saying I am not upset with my SIL (who is not poor by the way). I just don’t like a system that rewards people for appearing to look poor. </p>
<p>Also, wouldn’t capping in-state tuition at federal pell grant levels just have the affect of schools taking fewer in-state students (because they get less from them) and thus driving most kids out of state for school. Once again making college less affordable on the aggregate but cheaper for the lucky few who get into their state schools?</p>
<p>Well, annoyed kid, you certainly are annoyed. Also, given your join date and number of posts, I think you’re just trying to stir the pot, here.</p>
<p>College is unaffordable, right now, for mostly everyone. We all stipulate to that fact around here. Hopefully kids will get good guidance and find the schools which will give them merit aid when necessary. Polarscribe is right, though. We really should cap the fees in state or out of state for pell recipients.</p>
<p>Actually, if we could cap the fees at pell amounts for those on pell? That would be so great.</p>
<p>What a great idea and I’d never thought of it.</p>
<p>Good luck, annoyed. I hope you do well in your career! :)</p>
<p>I can’t think of a better way to improve the entire system when it comes to private schools that want diversity and other special things. If I could redistribute the federal money that goes to higher education, I would distribute much, much more towards more and better community colleges. I would prefer to see this option enhanced. I would take the money from the high cost private schools. I don’t think HPY and other such schools have a huge line item for PELL grants, for instance, in meeting their budgets. </p>
<p>Where I see the biggest problems when I am not looking at my own family/situation is that there are often not good local options for those who don’t have the money and whose parents will not pay the money, to get a 4 year degree. I am very fortunate in that I live in an area where those options are many. But I know many areas where one can go to communty college, okay…then what? No four year schools within commutable distance. Getting aid/merit as a transfer student is nearly impossible, and the money availabe is not going to cover sleep away school, That is a problem that is quite extensive. for students of all ages. not just those who are privileged and mature enough to go straight to college out of high school. </p>
<p>But if anyone wants to go to Private U, you either give the school something it will pay you for, or you pay the school. It’s that school’s own business what kind of class it wants to put together. If you happen to be a full ride invitee, congrats. If you can join the club if you pay full freight that’s your choice.</p>
<p>If it makes you feel better, other students get a deal far worse than you. Consider these three cases:</p>
<ol>
<li> Suppose a student has two parents who each earn $75k for a total of $150k. The family doesn’t feel rich, especially if they have large medical bills for a chronic condition, OR elderly parents to care for, OR live in San Francisco, OR you get the idea - definitely a “middle-class” family. At a CSS Profile school, the student will likely be considered a full-pay student even if the parents decide they cannot afford to pay anything. The 18-year old is now on his own in life.</li>
</ol>
<p>A twist on the above student might be if his father is a surgeon with a seven-figure income. While the student is in high school, dad decides to run off with his secretary. The new mother-in-law decides that she doesn’t want to pay a dime for the student’s education. However, CSS Profile schools will not give any aid due to dad’s income whether or not he is willing to pay.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Suppose a father has earned $50k annually his entire working life - definitely “middle-class” and eligible for generous FA, perhaps even $0 EFC. If the father dies during the student’s senior year of high school, the family will collect his $500k life insurance proceeds. Having life insurance is a responsible thing to do and should be rewarded, right? Instead colleges will see the $500k asset and increase the EFC by $40k per year even though the insurance money was intended for supporting the family.</p></li>
<li><p>Suppose a family has taken out $20k loans each year for the college senior and now have an $80k balance. However, they are confident that their bright engineering student will be able to quickly repay these loans upon graduation when he will have a generous salary. However, a month before graduation the student is hit by an uninsured drunk driver and spends months in a coma. In addition to enormous medical bills, the family also has the student loans that cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>These are just three scenarios that are each far worse situations than yours (and I have read about each of these on cc discussion threads). As others have posted, life is not fair. Count your blessings and don’t begrudge others theirs.</p>