You studied computer science but Big Tech no longer wants you. Now what? – The Economist

[1NJParent]

Feature article in The Economist 1843 magazine:

Armed with a stack of CVs still warm from the printer, Ayara (a pseudonym) plunged into the career fair. The room was already packed with job-seekers. The second-year student wasn’t expecting much. In past years, a computer-science student at the University of California, Berkeley, could hope to emerge from this campus ritual with an interesting summer internship, possibly at a “FAANG” company – the acronym for Facebook (now Meta), Apple, Amazon, Netflix and Google. Ayara’s best friend had snagged an internship at Apple at a fair like this one.

But none of the FAANG firms was here this time. Neither were Spotify, Salesforce, Uber or Microsoft. In any case most of those companies and almost 50 others – “all the famous ones” – had already rejected her internship applications a few months earlier. And that was before the latest round of job lay-offs. There were 120,000 tech lay-offs in January and February alone; Alphabet, Google’s parent company, accounted for 10% of those lost jobs. (Meta would announce another 10,000 lay-offs shortly after the fair.) By the time the fair came round in March, Ayara had scaled back her ambitions. “Any company that will hire me is good, at this point,” she told me later.

Ayara muscled her way to a crowded stall towards the back, where Juniper Networks was holding court. Founded in 1996 – long before most college students were born – Juniper is a workhorse of Silicon Valley: it makes a decent share of the hardware underpinning the internet, and software that controls that hardware. It has none of the “sparkle” (one of Ayara’s favourite words) of a FAANG company – its talent-acquisition manager told me that students often haven’t heard of it. Yet at this fair it had one irresistible selling point: it was still hiring interns.

Ayara caught the eye of a Juniper recruiter and they started talking. The fair was a bit like a cocktail party – the polite smiles, the hard sell – except without alcohol to quell people’s nerves. Some students were tapping their thighs or pinching the skin on their hands. Ayara put on a good show of appearing relaxed. As the recruiter scanned her résumé, she peppily described some of the highlights: interning at a subsidiary of Zipcar, a car-rental company; introducing emoji reactions within a messaging feature at PlayStation.

“Looks like you’ve worked for some big companies,” the recruiter said approvingly. “So why are you interested in Juniper? Do you know something about our company or just exploring?”

“I’m looking for a summer internship,” she said, gently dodging the question.

The recruiter, who wore a Berkeley alum badge on his t-shirt, nodded politely. He explained that a primary focus of the company is network security. “Are you interested in security?”

“Yeah,” she said tentatively, in the voice of somebody who had never considered pursuing a career as unglamorous – as unsparkly! – as security. After the fair, she submitted an application to Juniper. Weeks later, she had yet to receive a response.

It is not the ideal moment to enter the tech job market. For years the tech industry has paired huge profits with massive investments in expansion. Intoxicated by its own success during the pandemic, Big Tech binged on new recruits: Meta doubled its headcount over a short span. Now the good times are over. The tech giants have encountered stiffer competition (like TikTok) and tougher economic conditions, including manufacturing shortages and high interest rates. Pushed by investors to embrace unfamiliar concepts like “fiscal responsibility” and “long-term growth”, the industry has, over the past year and a half, shed some 300,000 workers, the most since the dot-com crash two decades ago. Amazon and Meta have rescinded job offers.

The effects are being felt in campuses all over the country. At Berkeley, would-be interns had formed a queue outside the career fair before its doors even opened. A few especially keen students wore suits and ties (a rare sight on campus where hoodies are de rigueur)

Even if they succeed in snagging an internship, their position is precarious. Some computer-science majors have had their internships cancelled; those with job offers have had their start dates pushed back, according to Sue Harbour, the executive director of the college career centre. They are the lucky ones. Several students told me that they had applied for jobs and internships at hundreds of companies with no offers to show for their efforts. When I introduced myself to a sophomore, who was majoring in electrical engineering and computer science, he asked, “Is The Economist hiring?” He was joking. Sort of.

More than 60 companies had set up stalls at the fair, ranging from government agencies and financial institutions to niche tech startups and, surprisingly, a spa. The biggest tech name there was sap, a European software giant. The absence of the most famous names in tech probably gave a boost to the less flashy suitors at the ball. “We get passed by a lot at this table,” a recruiter from a local public-transport agency told me; she managed to draw a smattering of enquirers. Firms that had suddenly become rock stars included Bank of America, and a startup making self-driving trucks. Students often haven’t heard of Juniper, said Benjamin Chen, a talent-acquisition manager whom I found setting up his stall, because “we work behind the scenes”. He’s often greeted by students who gamely open with, “Oh tell me about Jupiter ,” Chen said, laughing.

These companies have an appeal beyond simply being all that’s on offer. The quality that student job-seekers prize most in a company now is stability, according to a recent survey conducted by Handshake, a recruitment startup. Chen says he too has noticed a shift “towards a company that’s more stable and more predictable rather than something a little bit more, I guess, risky.”

This is a big adjustment in the culture of computer-science students at Berkeley. The large firms used to be imbued with an almost magical allure: no other companies were seen as worth working for. “The name is important because with the name comes recognition of your skills or your work,” Ayara told me. People say, “Oh, this person worked there.”

Some of this yearning comes from a sense of competitiveness and one-upmanship, driven by social media. Berkeley students had already gone through what one described as a “very stab-in-the-back” selection process to get on the computer-science course. Students who have secured jobs and internships crow about their success on LinkedIn, said Ayara.

The high salaries and gourmet food of the Big Tech firms were also part of the appeal. So are the sprawling campuses, which resemble “a playground”, said Vicky Li, a 21-year-old Berkeley graduate. Several students told me that Big Tech internships are far from demanding. Li has heard that interns at Google, for example, “get paid a ton” even though they work just two hours a day. (I asked Google about this and was told, “We do not accommodate part-time internships.”)

But students are now starting to wonder if they were seeing these Big Tech firms straight.

Li thinks she “romanticised” FAANG companies. She has started to see the perks they offered as gimmicks. Now she describes herself as “a little bit more anti-corporation”. She had realised she didn’t want to work in Big Tech before the lay-offs and is relieved she didn’t get sucked into it. She hopes to work as a product designer at a small company, ideally a startup, where she can get “solid experience rather than just chasing a bigger name”.

At the Juniper stall I met Arthur Kang, a Berkeley senior who had spurned offers from famous companies in favour of a job with a less glamorous firm this summer. Juniper offered him the opportunity to create something new rather than being a cog in the machine, he explained. His friends are puzzled by his decision, but he’s confident it was the right call. “Stability”, he told me, “includes not being fired right away.”

You studied computer science but Big Tech no longer wants you. Now what? (economist.com)

[Thorsmom66]

Interesting. My sense is that CS majors will still find good jobs; however, they may have to be more flexible about what type of company they’ll work for, where they’ll be located and how much they’ll be paid - you know, like kids majoring in other fields.

[Rivet2000]

While layoffs continue so does hiring for very specific skill sets. However, the wholesale talent grabbing days of the FAANG companies is, for now, over. Many companies could benefit from these conditions, however the precarious financial outlooks are causing them to be cautious in hiring as well.

Hopefully this won’t last long, but the glory days of the FAANG internships may be over. Additionally, the worldwide employee walkouts at places like Google may be a thing of the past as these companies return to their engineering roots (might not turn down projects like Maven now).

As in all job turndowns look for a flight to quality as hiring gets even more competitive. These are lessons learned long ago by by older generations. Time for a wake up call for the younger gens.

[ucbalumnus]

It was much worse in 2001-2003, but many of today’s new college graduates were not even born then, so they may not personally remember that any industry can have its downturns.

Of course, postings on these forums over the years indicate that so many are overly focused on a small number of big famous companies. While some industries have consolidated into oligopolies (oligopsonies when buying labor), that is not yet true in computing.

[DadOfJerseyGirl]

@ucbalumnus

so many are overly focused on a small number of big famous companies

sounds like college admissions.

[GKUnion]

Or Greek rush…

[tsbna44]

Maybe next year we’ll see posters with a diversity of majors vs just …CS

Nah - that’s unlikely to happen.

It’s been too good for too long. But there will always be cycles.

Still - winners win in life so the gritty, focused, disciplined person will win the long game.

[gwnorth]

Good. Maybe now students will think twice about the ethics of working for such companies and will instead choose to apply their skills in ways that will benefit rather than hurt humanity.

[hebegebe]

@Rivet2000

While layoffs continue so does hiring for very specific skill sets.

Yes, there is actually increased demand at the very high end of the market. My son’s friend just reneged on a 10-week summer internship that would have paid him $60K (plus free housing), because their startup idea just got funded. If it were my child, I would have recommended finishing the internship to increase options, but hey, not my child.

But back to the article, students should have gone into the career fairs realizing it was a buyer’s market. That means they should have looked up the list of companies still attending, and researched what each one did, and for those of interest, how to explain how their background is a fit. It’s no surprise that Juniper has not called Ayara back, as they would rather spend their time who actually showed some interest in what Juniper does.

[blossom]

I’m a veteran of career fairs and I don’t think kids have to do a ton of research-- knowing what the company does is a modest bar. And for sure don’t bother with the whole “here’s why I am a fit for you” spiel. We know what we are looking for.

Kids are going to have to reset their expectations for their careers. Maybe start in St. Louis, not Seattle. A traditional salary “plus discretionary bonus” and not a company throwing money at you before you’ve even started. And yes- you may need to own a pair of shoes because the company may need you in the office T-W-Th even if YOUR idea of a hybrid work model is “I show up when I feel like it”.

For kids just starting their college careers- find something to major in that you are going to enjoy and do well in, even if the job market shifts before you graduate. Because it shifts. The world doesn’t need terrible nurses, or marginal CPA’s, or bored computer scientists.

Just my opinion.

[eyemgh]

@Rivet2000

While layoffs continue so does hiring for very specific skill sets.

Indeed, having a niche is very helpful! If nothing else, it makes the pool smaller.

I also think that there will be a bit of a pivot to skillsets that include hardware. It’s too hard to outsource something that has to be done with specialized equipment in a lab.

[aunt_bea]

@Rivet2000

As in all job turndowns look for a flight to quality as hiring gets even more competitive. These are lessons learned long ago by by older generations. Time for a wake up call for the younger gens.

Agree. I think that the “quality” applicants will do the research, will wear shoes and show up for meetings, and will put in that extra effort.

I love that both our son (CSE) and elder daughter (EECS) use time clocks on their computers. Both get up, get showered/dressed for work and cut me off if I call/text at a time that is not lunch. They both work from home. Son has a sign up on his door: " I’m at work: and another one “Lunch hour today: 11:30-12:15”. If a spontaneous meeting gets called, he goes into work.

Daughter doesn’t live with us, but I hear her lunch clock go off and she will say,

“Sorry Mom, I’m officially on the clock, can’t talk anymore. Call me after work.”

My husband is tired of the WFH newbies, who never seem to work. He doesn’t get responses nor acknowledgments about sent messages until later in the week. Some of them complain about having to be available for “zoom-like” calls from him, and he’s “supposedly” a manager!

So, when they need their time cards digitally signed, and they don’t “show” for meetings and the time cards say otherwise, he confirms dates and times with recorded hours on digital time sheets. They may miss the cutoff for time cards.

My hubby does not want to be a hard jerk and micromanage employees, but he doesn’t like the current work ethic of some newbie employees, who openly discuss their daily ventures, done during work hours, with colleagues who DO come into work. Supposedly the work is done in the evenings, but husband notes that there are no logins for the programs in the evening either.

Husband also selects his own teams for his projects and these newbies want to be on his programs because he’s an excellent mentor, but he wants nothing to do with them. They complain to the powers that be. Because they don’t get on husband’s programs, they feel entitled to not work on the other programs, yet he still is responsible for time cards. It’s a mess! He’s tired of it.
(He’s tried to recruit our daughter, but he can’t afford her!)

[Knowsstuff]

Bummer. Learn to pivot, like we all did. This is really a great lesson for these kids just starting out. Plus maybe others will think twice whether this is really what they want to do and not just for the money.

[sevmom]

There’s probably been some siphoning off of engineering talent to CS in the last few years , partly probably because of the lure of money and the coolness factor. Engineering and CS in particular seem much more appealing these days to high schoolers as compared to a generation or two ago.

[Data10]

@Thorsmom66

Interesting. My sense is that CS majors will still find good jobs; however, they may have to be more flexible about what type of company they’ll work for, where they’ll be located and how much they’ll be paid - you know, like kids majoring in other fields.

The article seems outdated. Since the start of they year, the largest tech company stocks stopped free falling and have instead been rising rapidly. Facebook stock is up 91% so far this year. Amazon, Google, Apple, and Microsoft are all up more than 30%. Some large tech companies have returned to large hiring, although often not as large as certain previous years. There are also plenty of tech companies besides just the largest or most well known ones.

I’d wait to see the actual reported numbers for new grad outcomes, rather than focus on cherry picked anecdotal examples. The article mentions Berkeley, so I’ll use Berkeley CS ,majors as an example. There is not a lot difference in the stats below between 2022 and previous years. Maybe things will be completely different for 2023 grads. Maybe not.

2020 – Median Salary = $120k, 16% Still Looking, Most common employers = Amazon, Google, Facebook, Microsoft
2021 – Median Salary = $120k, 15% Still Looking, Most common employers = Amazon, Google, Facebook, Microsoft
2022 – Median Salary = $130k, 16% Still Looking, Most common employers = Amazon, Google, Facebook, Microsoft

[sbinaz]

That was an interesting article. Here’s my gut take on that:

1. UCB CS majors portrayed in this article sound, honestly, like they’re naive, elitist, and snobs.
2. There’s nothing like a good job market downturn to humble a person.
3. There’s plenty of companies to work for other than FAANG.
4. The attitudes mentioned in the article often show up here on CC…acting like if you’re a CS grad and you don’t go to work for FAANG, then you’re a loser or a failure. Get a grip.
5. And good grief…do a little HW before you go to a job fair. Look up the list of companies who are going to be there. YOU GOT INTO BERKELEY, FOR PETE’S SAKE! So you’re clearly smart enough to figure stuff out.

[ucbalumnus]

@Data10

I’d wait to see the actual reported numbers for new grad outcomes, rather than focus on cherry picked anecdotal examples.

Most people seem to pay more attention to anecdotes than data, so articles with anecdotes sell better than articles that only mention the data. Of course, the more sensational or wilder the anecdotes are, the better they sell the article, even though those particular anecdotes may not necessarily be the most representative.

[1NJParent]

These anecdotes don’t seem to me to be outdated or cherry-picked. The Economist isn’t known for sensationalism either. Everyone would obviously prefer more data, but data by themselves aren’t predictive. Data are even more backward-looking. By the time a large amount of data are accumulated, they’re guaranteed to be outdated.

[CFP]

I remember when Juniper Networks was a “hot growth” company.

That’s how you know you’re getting old - along with getting mail from AARP when your hair isnt even gray.

[roycroftmom]

Since the FAANG companies traditionally extended offers up to 2 years before actual employment, I would expect the class of 22 outcomes would be similar to prior years. The class of 25 may not be getting those offers right now as they might have in prior times, hence the anxiety