<p>ericatbucknell . hmm, thanks for that. I guess I understand now that perhaps HYPS are more intellectual in instruction, as opposed to state shools or the like, which are prob. not as challenging.</p>
<p>"Could you please name the state schools that dock their students 3 letter grades for missing class? I'm sure that would be helpful for all college applicants."</p>
<p>The only reason I won't do that is that it would indicate too much about me. I do suggest, however, that you ask students who are attending colleges about whether the colleges include attendance as part of their grades.</p>
<p>When I taught at a 2nd/3rd tier public institution, we were supposed to give students "Fs" if they missed or were late to 5 classes without an excused absence. </p>
<p>The same was true at another 2nd tier public institution in this same large state, where I took classes for fun. </p>
<p>The rules were in place for the protection of the students, who on the whole were not as motivated as are students at places like HPYS, and also don't have the analytical, reading skills that HPYS have. For instance students at HPYS may skip classes, but do the reading on their own, and be able to ace the tests, too, despite not going to classes.</p>
<p>At the lower tier schools, professors may have to go over the reading material in depth because either the students haven't bothered to read it (and won't read it before the exam) or the students lack the verbal skills to fully comprehend the material unless it is explained to them in class. Consequently, students who skip are not likely to be able to pass the tests.</p>
<p>There's a big difference in reading comprehension between students who have, for instance 750 v scores and students whose scores are 500. The latter need to have reading assignments explained to them so they can fully understand the reading. Unless the material is exceptionally difficult, that's not the case with the higher scoring students, who may not be able to ace the exams without going to class, but probably can pass reading-based exams despite missing classes.</p>
<p>Echoing what NSM said, and again I won't name the school, at the lower tier PRIVATE school I teach at, we have a policy of flunking students if they miss more than two weeks of class ( which for the common twice a week class, means missing more than four classes.) Doesn't matter what your grade is. </p>
<p>It's much, much easier to screw up here than at the "first tier" universities my kids attend.</p>
<p>A few practical suggestions (from a parent who once survived the biology major at Cornell and therefore has some idea of what "tough workload" means):</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Sign up for one more course than you really need, with the intent of dropping the most difficult course if necessary. For example, at the college I attended, students must take at least 12 credits per semester, but a freshman can register for as many as 18. So it's common for people to register for five courses (probably 16 to 18 credits), even though they may end up only taking four (12 to 15 credits). The idea here is that if one course turns out to be impossibly hard, you can choose to drop that one. On the other hand, if you had only signed up for four courses in the first place, you would be stuck with the impossible course. (Adding a new course to your schedule several weeks into the semester is extremely difficult because you are already weeks behind on the work. Dropping a course is about as difficult as returning a library book.)</p></li>
<li><p>Go on rateyourprofessors.com and find some courses where the reviewers say "This is by far the easiest course that I have ever taken at X University." Find one in a subject you don't care about (preferably a subject you don't care about that satisfies a distribution requirement). Sign up for that course.</p></li>
<li><p>If you're going to be accepting AP credit in a subject and signing up for a more advanced course (say, second or third semester calculus if you have AP credit for the beginning course(s) or intermediate microeconomics if you have AP credit for introductory microeconomics), openly admit to your advisor that you are not sure whether you really have enough background to handle the advanced course. Ask whether you can get permission to sit in on the lectures of the introductory course in addition to the more advanced one. You will probably discover that this is permitted. Then, if you decide after a week or two that the more advanced course is over your head, you at least know what's going on in the lower-level course, and you won't be too far behind in the assignments if you transfer into that class.</p></li>
<li><p>Consider including one course in your first-semester schedule for which you are grossly overqualified. This may mean waiving an AP credit and taking a course that you could have placed out of. It could mean taking introductory music theory for non-majors even though you've been playing six instruments since kindergarten. It could mean deliberately screwing up the foreign language placement test so that you can place into a level lower than the one for which you are really qualified. Whatever. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>The idea of all of these tricks is to make things a little bit easy for yourself the first semester, to give yourself time to adjust to the college workload and see just how bad it really is. Of course, people who use these tricks learn a bit less than those who take a full schedule of demanding courses from the very beginning. But sometimes covering your ass is more important than learning. Or, to put it another way, learning how to cover your ass is likely to be more important to your future life than anything you learn in biology or calculus.</p>
<p>Garland and NorthStarMom,</p>
<p>Is it correct to say that your experiences and knowledge about attendance policies are with 2nd/3rd-tier public/private colleges or community colleges? If they don't already, why don't the top-tier public and private colleges have the same policies (or is it only the top-tier private colleges that have relaxed attendance rules)?</p>
<p>I deal with employees every day who are at 40 writing personal statements explaining the horrible grades they got at 18 in their freshman year of college. Yes professors can and will fail you or drop your grades for missing classes and being late. Miss to many classes, your professor can and will give you a WU (unofficial withdrawl) or a WF both are equivalent to an F and both never leave your transcript.</p>
<p>Marian,</p>
<p>I think that you gave some good practical advice for students when trying to figure out their schedules because your college transcript never goes away. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Consider including one course in your first-semester schedule for which you are grossly overqualified. This may mean waiving an AP credit and taking a course that you could have placed out of.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is the same advice on of my D's AP teachers gave the class senior year. He told them if you are going in to a program where it is really important to maintain your GPA to go on to the next level (pre-med, Law or smoother competitive grad program), swallow your pride, chuck the AP credit and be happy for the opportunity to get a good grade coming out the gate. </p>
<p>What students should also keep in mind that all APs are not created equally especially when going to competitive schools. Most high school AP courses do not come close to the depth and breadth of a good college course. The formats are simply different; there are very few multiple choice exams, no regurgitation, and more emphasis on reading, writing papers.</p>
<p>I remember my D thinking about taking a higher level math course because she aced the AP calc BC course and the exam. </p>
<p>She took the course that she would have gotten an exemption for and most of the stuff they covered in AP calc BC was simply a review and was over within the first 2 weeks of class then they went forward with new stuff. Had she gone on to the course she was placed in she would have been over her head.</p>
<p>It is important to work your schedule with a sense of balance; don't take a load of courses that are reading writing intensive with another bunch of courses where you have 4 to 6 hours in lab requirements, pre & post lab work in addition to the work you have to do in lecture.</p>
<p>Marian and sybbie, your posts are really helpful! Saving to favorites.</p>
<p>"Public universitys are harder gpa wise" dont forget that these huge state u's will take much less qualified students and weed out- which equals lower gpa.</p>
<p>Of the elite schools, only 3 are truly going to be as or more difficult than high school would be: Caltech, MIT and Cornell. (Johns Hopkins too if you count that as an elite school.) Since I am friends with many alumni from places like Penn, Brown, Yale, Princeton, Stanford and Harvard, I know for a fact that you pretty much just have to have a pulse to get a C average in those schools; a slight increase in effort will earn you a B. (Apparently things have changed somewhat in Princeton though I am not sure how much.)</p>
<p>Among the liberal arts schools, Swarthmore has a reputation for intensity but even that is questionable.</p>
<p>To answer that....then don't apply there. Your life isn't ruined because you go to Columbia or Brown over HYP.</p>
<p>BTW, Chicago is harder than high school too.</p>
<p>DRJ: First question--yes</p>
<p>second question--my answer? because they treat their students like responsible adults, not like unruly children that have to be kept in line; and I think that's a good thing.</p>
<p>Keep in mind, many of the schools have changed their grading structures so it has become harder to get "easy A's". Even at elite schools there are still weed out courses, so everyone with a pulse does not automatically get a C.</p>
<p>*Duke head football coach Ted Roof announced on Wednesday that quarterback Zack Asack has been suspended from the university for violation of school policies and will not be eligible for the 2006 season.</p>
<p>"I am on academic suspension for plagiarism," Asack said. "I made a mistake and am remorseful. I take full responsibility for my actions. I wish the team well and look forward to returning next summer. I love it here at Duke..."*</p>
<p>*Josh Cohen '09 won't throw passes until the spring, after being suspended due to poor academic performance this past year. During the 2005 season, he played strongly on the field and quickly earned the starting quarterback role. *</p>
<p><a href="http://www.thedartmouth.com/%5B/url%5D">http://www.thedartmouth.com/</a></p>
<p>whatever you do, don't take math 55 at harvard</p>
<p>Chicago has a high enough rate of grade inflation that I would put it on par with some of the Ivies (its average GPA is higher than Dartmouth's, for example) and on a completely different level than Cornell, MIT, Caltech, and their like. The average GPA at Chicago is like a 3.35, and more than almost all of the class graduates with honors.</p>
<p>I think the problem faced by Chicago students is that the content of their courses tends to be much more difficult and advanced than you'd find even in your typical elite college classroom; but if you do the work, you get the grade, it's that simple.</p>