My kids would go to half apps at Applebees, go out for ice cream, froyo, pizzookies, on weeknights, but they were home early. If they had too much work to do they stayed home. Church youth group was in the evening, and some sports had night games. Some of my kids just have to always be doing something.
Mine were crazy busy in high school pre-covid. They had pretty time consuming extra curriculars. So grabbing an ice cream afterwards was a non-issue. Or if they wanted to go cheer on one of their friends in a game or play/concert. I didn’t really see this as “going out” which is why I asked the question. As long as they were home by 9-10 I didn’t really micromanage their hours.
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We would be fine with this kind of thing. A school game or play, a quick coffee after school, would be totally fine.
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We were definitely more free range parents, walked to school starting in 2nd grade, and they pretty much scheduled themselves, if they were tired, they learned to get more sleep. College was an easy transition for most. They literally did college searches and applications on their own, made some mistakes, which isn’t a bad thing. My oldest son is 25, I finally realized waking him up when his alarm didn’t wake him was a bad idea, he was late for a choir exam because I didn’t wake him. Once they turned 18 they had no rules, college was an easy transition.
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Also in favor of no texts/phones after 10pm rule, but be aware - he might be just going into the kitchen and up texting at night when you’re not there. “Trust but verify” can be a good policy here (via your phone bill or just looking at screen time activity on your phone).
As to having balance in their lives, I’m with you - this is a pretty important thing for everyone to learn how to do. My S23 and I have had many chats over the years around cultivating and nurturing our close friendships, which include spending time with close friends, and ensuring that no one feels “dropped” due to a relationship.
We also talk/have talked about the importance of making mental notes (or actual notes if they need them!) about their friend’s lives - things that they’re worried or excited about, important events…so that you can reach out before or after and say something like: hey, thinking about you today - good luck on the ____! Let me know how it goes.
My son, who has very close friends, can also be someone who is a little “out of sight, out of mind” - and so I’ve encouraged him to actually put repeating reminders on his calendar about every 10 days: check in with ___
Sometimes kids need concrete coaching like this on how to continue nurturing their close friendships.
In 12th grade there were two boys who dropped their friend group when they started dating, and (to their credit) their friends had a kind conversation with them about missing them in their lives and noticing how their friend(s) had changed. One boy reflected and brought more balance into his life, the other didn’t…and he’s no longer part of their close friend group. Not because they’re punishing him, but simply because he drifted away, and he no longer checks in to see how his friends are doing, or wants to spend time with them.
So I would talk about this with your son, but this is a very delicate situation that you probably need to come at sideways, and more with a sense of curiosity about how he’s balancing different aspects of his life.
Good luck, this isn’t easy!
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It’s the problem of the helicopter …you don’t want them to stumble but maybe stumbling young was best.
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Thanks all. Appreciate everyone’s thoughts
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It’s funny, in many ways I’m a very free range parent. My kids had alarm clocks starting in kindergarten. I let them go to movies, the mall, the park, trick or treating, alone, before most of their friends. They spent 6 weeks every summer at camp. My son went to Europe last summer and had tons of freedom.
I’ve always been strict about phones though. And I guess I’m strict ish about hanging out in Portland. But really less so than most of the parents I know.
Maybe I’ll look back and regret being tough on this stuff but for now, it’s what feels right.
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I’ve been hesitating commenting, but here I go.
You say you like this girl. Thank goodness. He’s young, and presumably this is a first real love. You remember how this feels, right? Young lovers being swept away. Story as old as time.
I agree with those who say hold to the family rules, but don’t tie it to this girl. If he wanted to stay out really late with his guy friends would you let him? I’m going to guess no, so you’re just being consistent and care more about his sleep and overall welfare than WHO is keeping him out late. Mention this girl as little as possible. And you can’t control his friendships. I think you need to step back there. His friends will give him grief if they feel like he’s too tied to her.
My biggest concern is your catastrophizing. Sending him to a summer camp to get him away from her??? That feels over the top and may not even be needed. That’s almost 10 months from now. They may break up by then on their own. And if they do, you’re right; your ds may be devastated. But don’t borrow trouble.
If I were you, I’d invite the family over for dinner or a cookout or something. Get to know them a little better. Demonstrate to ds that they aren’t the enemy. And THEN you can enlist their help in limiting the weeknight outings. One of the pieces of advice I give friends who ask about this kind of thing is don’t make them choose between the two of you, because he might choose her. But be really careful with your wording. Here, you wrote: “They’re inviting S25 to dinners and family events all of the time. S25 loves her family and is now texting with her parents more than he does with us.” That makes you sound jealous.
Good luck! First loves are usually wonderful for the kids but tough on the parents.
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Just coming to say everything here. Young love… I remember that 
.
If Oregon, I love Portland but not downtown. It’s OK. My daughter’s lives across the river where all the young (25-35 year olds live). Lots of families but really cool restaurants and shops. But of course you live there and I just visit.
Were in a major city and I get some areas are more desirable then others.
Id have him get a job before I sent him away for the summer.
Perhaps time to talk to him about why he is ending friendships. Also, about what he gets from the relationship with her as you want to make sure he is getting positive lessons from this and that he is both treating her well and her treating him well. Remind him that it is never healthy to depend on a single person for your happiness.
Does she have post graduation plans?
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Thanks again all. Good advice all around. I think I’m exhausted from an intense summer with him and the ongoing arguments.
We haven’t made this about her at all with him. We like and try to include her regularly. But the rules have always been the rules. We have older kids and it was never an issue. The intensity of the relationship has made him want to be with her constantly and what worries me is the willingness to drop friends and hobbies and the arguing with us. I’m not interested in breaking them up or anything like that.
I’ll think about what you’ve all said, I do appreciate everyone’s thoughts.
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It could be worse.
You could have a daughter!!!
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Ha! I do! She’s fabulous.
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omg - the son’s are easier but mine didn’t have young love except falling in love with his junior prom set up. My daughter - has young love 1500 miles apart - and still going strong.
But us dads…sad to say, but we have - or I have - a double standard. It’s my little girl after all…
Boundaries are a way to maintain healthy relationships that add to existing ones, not detract from them. Your son needs to know that he has a family (parents, siblings), schooling and personal interests that make him who he is.
This dynamic (polite to your face for now as your son is still in your house, dissing you when you’re not around) has potential for isolating him later from his family, friends and his own life.
Look into Narcissistic personal relationship literature. It’s eye-opening. And can happen to men, not just women. There are tactics that are used against unaware individuals. As a parent, it’s important to develop strategies to counter-act a poisoning of family relationships. Sounds like you are very aware of things and have made efforts to figure out what to do next. It’s hard to behave with restraint in the face of others who deliberately ignore healthy personal boundaries.
Do some reading and see what else you can do to counter-balance things.
What about inviting his friends around more when his girlfriend is over? More group dynamics. Tip things back to a more balanced set of “outside of immediate family” socializing.
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Europe is ok but Portland is not?
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