<p>^^^ LOL musicamusica. When I was in grad school, I recall one of our faculty members commenting that a parent of a kid she had seen in the clinic that day had poo-poo’ed all her sage advice because at that time the faculty member didn’t have any kids and couldn’t possibly “get it”. This faculty member minimized the parent’s comment, but several years later (when she had kids of her own), admitted that the parent was right.</p>
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<p>Why do you think I specifically said PG?? You really cannot read, or in the alternative, if you would really choose which PG movie for your 16 year old kid, you have a serious problem.</p>
<p>If the basis of your argument is that societal norms and common sense about what is harmful are arbitrary, you are truly disturbed. Personally I think you are flailing wildly because you cannot bring yourself to admit you sound so stupid.</p>
<p>“I do have to say I feel the relationship between who is paying for college and whether or not the parent agrees with the kid’s choice of major is irrelevant.”</p>
<p>Well, I’ve felt crucified for suggesting it was not irrelevant in the past, but I will dare say it again. I would not try to tell my kid what to major in ( but my husband, who I GREATLY respect, and who has done more of the tougher parenting would LIKE to), but I would consider saying what I WON’T pay for. </p>
<p>I opened this thread because of my son. OP, I remember your name, and it could be our sons have something in common.</p>
<p>My son, a junior, presently feels he would like to major in “acting”. Not only has he never acted in anything, he doesn’t even seem to know there is no “acting” major ( I AM right about that, right?), as opposed to theatre arts, etc. I have no problem with him going to a school to study say, media/coomunications, etc, so he could learn what the industry is about, and take some acting classes, but I also said he should get training in an area that will give him a “day” job, like using a camera, or lighting, etc. I DON’T feel I can support a college search that is about getting him in an acting program. You see, he is interested in television because of someone he met on xbox live… I would pay for a CC or a CSU ( state school in Cal.), but $200K? For a kid with no track record? Really? </p>
<p>Now before anyone starts telling me I have no right to doubt my son’s insights about being an actor, keep in miond my oldest was into musical theatre. I spent a lot of time on the MT threads, and while my D never talked about this as a major ( but is HEAVILY involved with it as an EC), I know how long high schoolers have been doing this before they go to college, and how difficult it is to get into specialty programs. For my son, with the 2.85 GPA, it would be like letting him think he was a match for Harvard. Who among you would let me get away with that?</p>
<p>Perhaps it depends on the kid. I still believe you have to know your kid, and you can’t disregard ALL your instincts based on someone else’s experience.</p>
<p>And after that baby grew to be a head strong toddler, I just wanted her to develop into and intelligent, independent, strong young woman who would see and understand the wisdom of my sage advice and experience. Then she became an intelligent, independent and strong young woman. Well now she is in grad school with a substantial fellowship. (BUT it was HARDLY from following the wisdom of my sage advice and experience.) It was developed from the independence afforded her at an early age and my ability to occaissonally write a large check to crack open a door that she would have to walk through herself.</p>
<p>“You see, he is interested in television because of someone he met on xbox live.”</p>
<pre><code>Shrinkrap----I feel your pain. He needs to speak with someone like my husband who DOES work in the “business” here in Southern California. Day jobs on a film or television set?
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<p>After 30 years of steady work on film sets, my H has been out of work for two years. “Day Jobs” in Hollywood for experienced workers are generally waiting tables if you are lucky. But I am getting further and further from the OP’s question.</p>
<p>**DD is currently working in the arts as a music teacher and performer, but its a difficult road.</p>
<p>Owlice: The bus trip also includes a plane ride to Zimbawbai to pick up Zimcollegemom. And John Travolta is the pilot. Is that better? Bring whoever you want. I’m thinking about Tim McGraw.
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<p>I didn’t feel it worth it to reply to a contrived scenario that I had already addressed in a prior post – see Shrinkrap’s idea of choosing in a positive sense and prohibiting. </p>
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<p>fallenchemist, you are very clearly responding like an idiot. I’m sorry to say it so abruptly, but either you are not reading my posts at all or simply ignoring them.</p>
<p>You made an appeal to societal norms without first justifying that they should be considered as empirically correct. Your subsequent argument is therefore logically invalid.</p>
<p>I’m saying that what matters to YOU as a parent may not matter to other parents. Some parents may not care whether their child is getting Cs or As and will continue to pay for college regardless. Some may consider alcohol a serious issue and will refuse to pay for the education of their student who drinks regularly. Still others think that the choice of major plays a big role in college and in life and will make their decisions accordingly.</p>
<p>What constitutes a good cause to withhold or withdraw college tuition in YOUR mind is not what constitutes a good cause for OTHER parents. Which is why I’m trying to understand why you feel justified in asserting that withholding funding based on major is not a personal decision on the part of the parents. I find it very arrogant and presumptuous.</p>
<p>musicamusica ; sorry to hear that! Interestingly, my brother was interested in film since middle school, and was determined that that was where he would work. VERY little support from the extended family, but my mom, though she encouraged him to go to college, was supportive enough. He dropped out of college, only going back to get his degree because of a promise he made to her at her deathbed. But he IS working in in industry, has moved up from DOP, to director, got nominated for a grammy, and just go signed as a director for his first major picture. So…who knows? One difference is my brother has ALWAYS been passionate and hard working. My kid? Not so much.</p>
<p>baelor - the fact that you could even put forth as an argument whether or not these societal norms should be considered just shows me how pathetic you are. Prove that societal norms apply?? That is like saying prove that breathing is important. There is no argument with your point of view, because you are just saying whatever are the values of that parent, that’s what goes. You are saying if they want to pay even though they know their kids are on drugs, then fine. And that’s true. But the converse isn’t true. Not paying unless your kid does everything you want, including choice of career, is never OK. If a parent has that as a value, they are wrong. There is never a debate if there are no reasonably common values to use as a basis.</p>
<p>Like I said a while back, if this is how you are going to be with your kids (major in something that is on my approved list or I don’t pay) fine, just be sure they know that from the time they are able to start saving money. And be sure they are totally up-to-date on child emancipation laws.</p>
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<p>Baelor…you are a student from the above post you made. Perhaps your parents have put the limits on your choices that you are stating…perhaps not.</p>
<p>I still say…when YOU become a parent yourself…and a parent of a high school or college student…you are likely to reevaluate what you are saying now.</p>
<p>As someone said in another thread, this thread has more tangents than a high school trigonometry exam.</p>
<p>^ I was just going to see when it would break off into a discussion of the impending UCLA/USC game this weekend. (5 more posts?)</p>
<p>jym626 I think that some of us have just decided to ignore a particular argument. :D</p>
<p>Shrinkrap, my idea about how to respond if one’s HS junior suddenly says he wants to “major in acting” --having not made the slightest effort to engage in the activity in the past–is to say, “You’re interested in acting? Great! When are the tryouts for the spring production?” Perhaps even actively remind him to try out. He’ll either do it and actually be good at it and highly engaged and have discovered a life long passion, or do it and find out it isn’t as pleasant as it looks, or do it but decide that it is something he’d rather keep as a hobby. Or not do it, in which case you don’t have to worry because he won’t be getting into the theater programs at Carnegie Mellon or Julliard or Cincinnatti or Tisch anyway. 
If he still talks about it, guide him towards a school with other alternatives, telling him that it’s always wise to have other options, should one change one’s mind about a major.</p>
<p>Baelor would undoubtedly imagine himself simply making a proclamation that “I will not pay for a degree in ACTING!!” when the teen expresses a perhaps-unrealistic idea. I’d suggest that that course of action is counter-productive in too many ways to count.</p>
<p>PS I have a family member who actually majored in dance–how impractical can you get?!? She is current making a living as a professional dancer with a steady gig at a major cultural institution in Manhattan.</p>
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<p>Yeah, but that’s because you’re old enough to know better, you parent, you!</p>
<p>John Travolta doesn’t do it for me, either; I’m sorry!</p>
<p>There’s a UCLA/USC game this weekend??</p>
<p>Baelor, you asked on what basis could I say no to drugs or alcohol for my child, but allow a movie or even a major I may not be thrilled with. You claim that any such distinctions are arbitrary.</p>
<p>Well, I’ll give you my basis, which I don’t believe is arbitrary.
- Is the activity physically or psychologically harmful in the long term? If yes, then I go on to the next question. Drugs/alcohol, sure, but so does being on the football or hockey or gymnastics team.
- If it can be physically or psychologically harmful, does it have any positive effects? Drugs/alcohol don’t. End of sentence. Football, hockey, gymnastics? Yes, there are positive effects.
- Are any of the likely effects permanent? Messing yourself up with drugs, alcohol, sex (pregnancy, AIDS) - pretty permanent. Choosing the wrong major (assuming the kid does the work to justify the college experience) - not so much. An inappropriate movie? A blip in time.
- Will my answer to 1-3 change based upon the individual child and/or that child’s age? I may say no to a small boy playing football with older boys, but maybe not to his brother built like a truck. I may say no to going shopping with friends for a 5th grader but not for an 8th grader.
- What do I want to happen? Is this “no” worth alienating my child? And if I do alienate my child, does that help either her or me? There are some things that are worth it - which major to choose isn’t one of them.</p>
<p>There are a few more questions & a whole gradient of acceptable/unacceptable behaviors and activities. Life (and particularly parenting) is filled with shades of gray; there are very few absolutes. You’ll learn that as you grow older. You will learn how to make decisions, how to evaluate information, how to find additional information. And by the way, you’ll learn a lot of those skills in college, no matter what your major is.</p>
<p>Really, anyone that thinks that it is arbitrary to make a distinction between deciding between which movie is OK to see versus paying for your kids drugs is so out of touch with normal life and the capacity for human judgement that you cannot have a discussion, or hope to reason with them. That point of view is so fringe at best that any debate is useless.</p>
<p>For those of you using acting as an example of a poor degree choice, I will point out that training in acting can be fantastic preparation for a career in sales, not to mention numerous other ways it can help a person.</p>
<p>"My son, a junior, presently feels he would like to major in “acting”. Not only has he never acted in anything, he doesn’t even seem to know there is no “acting” major ( I AM right about that, right?), as opposed to theatre arts, etc. I have no problem with him going to a school to study say, media/coomunications, etc, so he could learn what the industry is about, and take some acting classes, but I also said he should get training in an area that will give him a “day” job, like using a camera, or lighting, etc. I DON’T feel I can support a college search that is about getting him in an acting program. You see, he is interested in television because of someone he met on xbox live… I would pay for a CC or a CSU ( state school in Cal.), but $200K? For a kid with no track record? Really? "</p>
<p>Interesting. Younger S – a kid with board scores 760, 780 - first said he wanted to learn how to design video games in college. I mentally rolled my eyes, but told him to consider places like MIT. </p>
<p>Then, he talked about majoring in education, psychology, sociology, engineering or – to my complete surprise – music. He had taken several instruments, demonstrated talent in the couple of years that he took them, but since he hadn’t practiced, I’d stopped the lessons.</p>
<p>In college, he entered thinking he’d be a psychology major, and was for 2 years and then switched – to my complete surprise to theater after getting a role in a play and taking a couple of theater courses to fulfill, I thought, distribution requirements. I mentally rolled my eyes and visualized my kid’s being a pauper for life. However, I said only supportive things to him. </p>
<p>Then, he discovered theater tech, and found he loved it – absolutely everything about it even when he had to spend 16 hours hanging lights. I hear that there even are lots of well paying jobs in theater tech.</p>
<p>I believe in letting young people follow their bliss. Even if he had remained a theater performance major, that could have led to some career that he would have been happy and fulfilled in and could have supported himself in even if it wasn’t on stage.</p>
<p>I still remember how my mother hounded me into studying French in high school, not German, which I wanted to study. My mother wanted me to study French because she thought it was a beautiful language. I ended up marrying a man who is fluent in German.</p>
<p>I also remember how my mother hounded me so I didn’t major in African American studies, something she thought would keep me from having any kind of lucrative careers. Two college friends who majored in that subject are now millionaires. One became a movie producer, the other ended up working in a tech firm just as that field took off.</p>
<p>So…I say let the young people major in what they choose. My only caveat is that I won’t pay for extra years in college if son decides to switch majors late in college.</p>
<p>Reading some of the posts here, I feel that some of us slipped through a warm hole and ended up in an alternate universe where a parent can anticipate and simulate all meaningful scenarios of a child’s life so that the need for a child to experience and learn through trial and tribulation of life can be successfully and completely obviated, and a parent earns the right to manipulate children like a puppet master on account of paying for the kind of stuff most parents consider to be part of the basic nurturing support they provide gladly without strings attached, provided, of course, that they can manage financially. </p>
<p>Scary stuff. Annals of child psychology, developmental psychology, counseling psychology and clinical psychology are littered with distorted lives of children of such parents.</p>