Supposed there were colleges and universities in the US that offered US-style academic programs and majors of interest to you (or your kid), but were “no frills” otherwise, compared to residential colleges and universities that you may consider. I.e.:
Academic programs and majors are designed for typical US students from US high schools or transfer students from other US colleges and universities.
Academic programs and majors are high quality (however you define that) and considered respectable by employers and graduate and professional schools of interest. Assume that such factors are similar to those of residential colleges and universities that you may consider.
Essential academic support like libraries and labs are provided.
Essential administrative support like admission, registration, and transcripts are provided.
Housing office is just a convenient place (e.g. web site) for landlords to advertise rentals to students.
Food service is a directory of nearby grocery stores and restaurants.
Career center is a web site that employers can post jobs at, and someone answering the phone for employers to book rooms for on-campus recruiting, and post-graduation survey.
For social, cultural, religious, and athletic activities, students can find them in the surrounding community.
If such a “no frills” college or university existed in competition with residential colleges and universities, offering a lower net price, would you (or your kid) choose to attend such a school? Assume that you can afford the residential colleges and universities, but you are not so wealthy that the difference in net price is trivial.
We already have schools like this, it’s called Community College… :)>-
How much lower is the “net” price? Just pick a number that everyone can consider. Also, many have the choice of going to a CC for two years at a significantly reduced cost (with benefits like you’ve listed) and then transfer to a 4 year school, but they wouldn’t consider that option…we say we don’t want all of the amenities (as parents), but that’s not the way we act.
I’m still trying to wrap my head around people lamenting international students grabbing seats at big state universities in the US but now are discussing the possibility of US kids attending subsidized tuition free German universities.
For me, this alone would be a dealbreaker. Other than that, a no-frills college (aka community college) is a great option. I’m not sure why this option is presented here and in that other thread as being something wildly experimental or unique to Germany or Europe in general though.
This is really the only place where people tend to assume that all American college students must go to extremely expensive and lavish colleges like NYU or Columbia though, as if there were no cheaper alternatives to those schools outside of Germany. College costs here are definitely higher. But the reason middle-class families in the U.S. are breaking the bank on college is as much about personal choices and needs as it is about frills like dining halls.
It is very common in my area for people to send their kids to community college for 2 years, then have them trransfer to our state flagship for the last 2 years. Honestly, it’s a pretty smart money-saving strategy and I can’t blame them for doing.
People can buy a functional, attractive, 100% cotton golf shirt from Lands End. So, with their willingness to go into big credit card debt for pretty much the same shirt w a silly polo player embroidered on the left breast, why would most people opt for no-frills college when taxpayers and college endowments will subsidize all kinds of perks?
Perhaps I should have specified “bachelor’s degree granting colleges and universities” of comparable academic quality and reputation, since I know that two year community colleges exist. But also, it seems that community colleges are heavily disdained around these forums, meaning that they are not seen as being of comparable academic quality and reputation by most posters here (whether or not that is true for what they do offer).
Yes, there are four year commuter-based universities. But such schools like CSUDH and CSULA are not generally viewed as competitors to more residential schools like UCLA and USC. The question really is, supposed if a school had what a student considered academic quality and reputation comparable to UCLA and USC, but the otherwise was more like CSUDH and CSULA, would many students choose it, even at a significantly lower price.
From what I can tell in Maryland, there are quite a few state universities which offer quality education, may not have the private school perks nor the name. They are known as “commuter” schools. The funny thing is once they become better known (e.g., UMBC), they need to build dorms for OOS students.
On the flip side, if a university has the academic quality and reputation comparable to UCLA and USC, why wouldn’t they be charging a higher price? I thought I read somewhere that some private schools tried that business model and it didn’t work. People actually wanted the high tuition/high discount model - the high tuition signaled a good college (?) while the high discount (scholarship) meant their child was a good student (?).
Yep, UIC is a school like that as well (academically on par with or better than some flagships).
The old CCNY in NYC too.
However, there doesn’t seem to be a huge demand by high-achieving American kids for that type of environment these days.
For that matter, German kids may not actually prefer that model either, but that’s the one they are stuck with. Government entities restrict how much public German unis (and the good ones are pretty much all public) can charge.
I don’t think it is necessarily true that most CC posters make those assumptions, or that they strongly disdain community colleges. However, if your target is a community college, then why would you need a forum like this? In most cases, you have one local choice. Even if your target is a relatively low-cost state university, in most cases you’d be choosing from a fairly small number of schools that are relatively familiar to your GC, fellow students, or neighbors. College Confidential tends to be more helpful for posters who (for whatever reason) are shopping in a bigger market space (one that includes colleges that are relatively selective, distant, and yes, expensive).
Perhaps a better question is, for those who paid full price at an elite private, would you have sent your kids there if there were fewer amenities, at a lower cost, with the same academic results and employment prospects? For me, the answer is yes, yes, yes!
People think it is the full-payers who are driving the amenities, but as one, I say it is not true. The colleges add all the frills so the $60k per year payers think they are getting their money’s worth. Some of us think it is unnecessary; just charge us less.
I know of at least one elite private (and there probably are others) which doesn’t have a climbing wall or what some people on here call amenities (the student union is also kind of run-down). They still charge the same high list price as everyone else, though. Probably because they can.
Plus, there are plenty of publics that cost less than list price at a private.
Note that the bare-bones type of school UCB is referring to in other countries is invariably a public.
@bay, in which case there are plenty of publics that are far cheaper than list-price at a private. Some of them are even highly-regarded (I daresay elite) and most would even have some of the amenities that UCB is axing in his hypothetical scenario.
I feel like many of us are already making that choice. Most people I know started college at a cc then transferred to a 4-year school or commuted to a local 4-year SUNY. The primary consideration in the choice was a strong program at an affordable price.
I think CC is a glimpse of a world most of the rest of us don’t see. We’re not sending our kids to sleep away colleges, and available “frills” don’t factor into the decision. The ability to get a degree in their chosen field without acquiring a lot of debt is the main concern.
I thought a lot of state schools are bare bone. My kid at a UC doesn’t have advisor, at least I never heard of it, her school website has examples of four year plan. She’s not having problem with it, other senior students in her major told her what to take and who to look out for. It’s called secondary type of networking. Nowadays there are way more useful information, we have CC, Reddit, Quora, etc… All the information that you seek are almost out there.