Coming towards the end of the admissions cycle! [Kalamazoo vs Wooster advice wanted!]

Applying to College
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We have received immense help from CC forum handholding us through the process. Actually two of the colleges we are considering got to know only because of the advice from senior members here. I thought I would create a post outlining our journey and giving a status update to you all and also lean on you for some additional advice :slight_smile:

Special thanks to:
@tsbna44 @merc81 @thumper1 @Mwfan1921 @blossom @circuitrider @1dadinNC @gardenstategal @AustenNut @DramaMama2021 @fiftyfifty1

Here is the profile:

Indian Male Student, Biochemistry and Molecular Biology SAT: 1480 GPA: 4.0 (UW), Cambridge A level curriculum, EC: @10 including starting an NGO, Teaching assistant for high schoolers, Math club founder at school, Basketball coach at school etc.

Strong in Biology, Mathematics and programming. Desires to do as much undergraduate research, lab work as possible. Post undergrad desires to do graduate studies. Most probably a PhD.

Applications Journey: We started thinking international students can not get any aid from US colleges. Short listed and applied for a few research Universities which have big name in the major we are interested in. After some time discovered that LACs offer need based aid to international students and decided to apply to a few. Then came a realization that since most are need aware it may be difficult to get admissions and also the income and asset levels may not be suitable for large need based awards. All this learning happened from October 2022 onwards so we were applying to colleges as we were learning new things about the process. That is why the college list is all over the place. If this is re-done we could do much much better but I guess that boat has sailed now!

Colleges applied to:

Small Colleges: Grinnell, Colorado College, Hendrix, University of Richmond, Rollins, Wooster, Kalamazoo, SUNY Geneseo, FAU honors, Oberlin, Reed, W&L

Large Universities: Penn State, University of Vermont, Mizzou, Virginia Tech, University of Washington at Seattle, UCB, UCSD, UCD, Wisconsin, UIUC, UMich

Rejects: Grinnell, Colorado College, University of Richmond, Hendrix
Admits: Rollins, UVM, Wooster, UIUC, Kalamazoo, Geneseo
Deferrals/Waitlist: UMich, Reed
Yet to hear from: W&L, Oberlin, Penn, Mizzou, Virginia tech, UWS, UCB, UCSD, UCD
Mess ups:
Wisoconsin: They did not receive transcripts for some reason, we did not notice and they did not communicate on email.
FAU honors: They wanted audited profile which costs 450$ so decided not to complete the application.

Any advice on which of the admitted schools we should go with? Overall based on the online research and my son’s desire to go to graduate school post bachelors we have short listed either Wooster or Kalamazoo. However, we are just not able to make a decision between the two. No online guidance about it either. Everyone only says good things about these two. Any shortcomings, bad points about these colleges would be great to hear as well.

We have received merit from all (except UIUC) which brings the cost to very similar levels for all the schools.

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Congratulations on all of the acceptances your son has received so far! And thank you so much for the continued updates…they are very much appreciated!

If your family has narrowed down the choices to Kalamazoo & Wooster, then these are some steps/questions that I would make sure my kid has thought about before making a decision:

Look at the research interests of the faculty. Are there particular faculty members that your son wants to work with? Is it just one professor at each school or are there multiple professors? See if you can reach out to students in those majors (the admissions office may be able to connect you) and ask about those particular faculty members…their teaching style, personality, etc. See if your son thinks it would be a good match.

Has your son mapped out what 8 semesters of college would look like at each school that would fulfill the distribution and major requirements? Are both schools’ options appealing, or does one have fewer classes that seem interesting? Does your son get to take enough classes of particular interest (electives)?

Dig in to student life. What clubs would he be interested in checking out once on campus? How active are those clubs? Does one campus have an edge over the other?

Look at residential life. Are there living learning communities or thematic floors that interest your son? And what are the reviews on the dorms? Are there lots of complaints about maintenance and condition, or do students seem pretty happy? Look at the food as well. Does your son have any dietary requirements? How easily will they be met at each college?

Has your son joined any accepted student groups online (Facebook or wherever)? Do the comments make him lean toward one school or another?

I don’t think there’s a wrong choice here. It’s just a matter of your son figuring out where he thinks he’ll be happiest over the next four years, because when you’re happy you tend to thrive and will do your best.

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This is a tough choice, especially for someone who has never set foot on either campus. On paper at least, they seem extremely similar: two small, tightly-knit, academic communities in two small, tightly-knit, midwestern towns. Given your son’s desire to go to grad school, you are extremely lucky to have found two American private colleges that are affordable and hopefully won’t require an immense amount of debt to finance. That was the hard part.

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Congratulations on the acceptances – Wooster and Kalamazoo are excellent, well respected colleges.

I would basically do what’s already been mentioned – go through majors and course catalog/curriculum to find out which school is the better fit academically. (so take some time and plan out 8 semesters of courses, as best as you are able, making sure to meet graduation requirements).

Try to contact professors to find our about potential research opportunities and their availability to students.

Look at photos of the schools, read about them online to try to learn about each school’s culture, etc. Look at dorm and food photos.

Find some cool things to do in and around campus – things to do in the student’s free time.

Finally, if the decision still has not been made, rely on cost difference to make the choice.

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I echo the process and thoughts above. I recall that Wooster requires a thesis, which is often helpful for a kid considering grad school. Of the families I know, all have been very happy with both schools. The Wooster students I know were pretty driven kids whereas the Kalamazoo kids I know were ones who went off to college a bit clueless and found their way at (and probably thanks to) the school. I would not generalize about the student body based on this by any means!

I this you should pick your favorite of these two and compare to UIUC which will be a very different option. Excellent school, lots of resources, but you will want to assess how well your son can navigate, advocate, and otherwise access the resources he wants there.

My own bias, especially for a student who is experiencing not only college, but the U.S., for the first time, is for the LAC.

Congratulations on your great options. Remember at this point that this is simply about optimizing your priorities- no bad choices!

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Great suggestions above…we seriously considered both of these schools for my S21, and we visited Wooster during that process (excellent visit), so I have a few small things to add -

  1. Related to the suggestion by @AustenNut to map out 8 semesters, I’ll point out that Wooster has many more distributive requirements while Kalamazoo has a fairly open curriculum (few distributive requirements). Also, Kalamazoo operates on trimesters rather than semesters, so 3 courses at a time for 3 terms which allows for fitting in 9 courses a year rather than 8.

  2. My son ended up at a LAC, and the small college experience has worked really well for him. For some students, both Kalamazoo and Wooster would be similar in this respect, but for others, the difference in student body size may make a difference (can change, for example, the depth of what’s available in some departments). As of 2 years ago when we were looking, Kalamazoo was around 1400-1500 students and Wooster closer to 1900.

  3. Again, my data is a little old since these are notes from my son’s application cycle, but at the time, Wooster reported 65% of the student body being from out of state, and 16% international. Kalamazoo was 33% from out of state and 6% international.

We found a lot to like about both schools and think each offers an excellent opportunity. These are just some differences to consider.

Edited to Add: I think both schools will likely have virtual sessions to help with the decision process. When we went through the process, I recall doing these including some designed specifically for parents, and they were very well done (though I imagine the time difference for you may make this more difficult).

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Thanks much for the detailed reply. Much of the research about faculty and students is not done yet. Thanks for suggesting it!

Kalamazoo curriculum seems to be completely open with no requirements on any general education classes. He might be able to focus on Bio, Chemistry, Math and CS predominantly there. Wooster is more standard LAC with lot of Gen Ed requirements. Of course concentrated program in stem has its own disadvantages I guess and you might miss out on true liberal arts experience.

Wooster seems to be more research oriented with Capstone extremely highly regarded. Kalamazoo is more open and also more fun. Their land and sea program seems to be an indication that they want students to really smoothly gel in the system.

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I don’t know much about either school, but both are respected. I think it might be a little easier to get to Wooster, if that matters.

I will echo that a thesis is very useful for students who are serious about grad school. My D had to do a thesis as an undergrad and it was absolutely a factor in her acceptance to a highly competitive masters program. If there isn’t a huge difference in money, that factor alone might tip me towards Wooster.

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Thanks. Yes things have worked out OK. I think we missed out on more targets or soft reaches like Oberlin and Reed. We could have done those if we had not done the large research schools.

We are contemplating if he should visit next month after his exams to these two schools and may be Oberlin. Fortunately he has visitor visa.

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Thanks. Yes much of the standard online research is done and there is hardly much to go on to differentiate. Will certainly try to map the 4 years. That seems like worthwhile exercise.

Currently these two are very close just 2k difference. Kalamazoo has said they are still reviewing application for need based aid but online calculator seems to indicate hardly any need based aid. We will see.

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Thanks. Yes UIUC and UWS if he gets into are great research schools but I agree with you on LAC experience. In addition cost is almost 2X of LACs :slight_smile:

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Congratulations on the results so far!

I agree with much of what’s been said above about Kalamazoo and Wooster, I don’t think there’s a wrong choice.

With that said I lean Wooster for a few reasons.

  • Very strong in STEM, have a fairly new science building, larger endowment, and the senior thesis does prepare students for grad school.

  • It’s easier to get to than Kalamazoo (about an hour from Cleveland Airport which is a much bigger airport than Kalamazoo’s).

  • Wooster also has quite a few more international students as mentioned above, and that can make a difference not only in meeting people with shared experiences, but the admin is likely more adept at fulfilling the sometimes unique needs of international students.

  • Wooster on average will have a higher achieving student body

  • Fall of 2021 looks like Wooster had 1,973 students, Kzoo 1,241. Both LACs, but 50% more students at Wooster

You might read all this and think I don’t like Kzoo, but that’s not the case! One potential advantage of Kzoo is that is not rural like Wooster, and Western Mich U is right there too.

I also think UIUC could work, it just depends on where and what type of school your S sees himself more. What major was he accepted to at UIUC?

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Yes you nailed it about the open curriculum. He loves not having to do Gen Ed courses :-). I am not sure but eventually he should decide.

We have not attended any sessions yet. He is attending whatever he can. But that is a good idea we will try to attend some sessions also.

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Totally agreed. Wooster has compulsory thesis and it is highly regarded. In K also you can opt for it. He has had one call each with one professor at K and W. He loved the proff at K a lot! But that is again only one proff.

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K is just two hour train ride from Chicago or Detroit. From India that might be easier to reach I feel?

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Yes, excellent point. That’s a serious consideration for him. I have a friend who has only the best to say about his time at Kzoo.

Your son might really get a chance to shine there.

He can also look at Instagram and other social media, as well as the college Facebook pages and such. Niche and Unigo are websites that have great student feedback about colleges. I would urge your son to look closely at those resources.

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Biochemistry and Molecular Biology for UIUC as well. It is really top notch for research in that but cost will be lot more. I am not sure it will be worth it. But let’s say if cost was not a consideration then would it be better to go to UIUC or UWS in your view? I felt even then these two LAC might be better to get more personal recommendations and opportunities for undergraduate research which could make it easier to get into top research programs for graduate studies.

I totally agree that Wooster is bit better from student body achievement perspective. Kalamazoo we felt scores over it for having fun as well as internship opportunities.

Kalamazoo international students are much less than Wooster, so that factor could be important.

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Yes we are looking at those online resources. Hardly anyone says anything material bad about either school so deciding is difficult. Haha.

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Btw from the online communication K really gives a vibe that they want you and they really care for you. The admissions office was extremely responsive. Professors and students willing to come on video call. Send papers, communicate on email from K.

W on the other hand bit more cut and dry. I know it is all marketing but still it does make a difference :slight_smile:

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@Andygp , at twice the price, I wouldn’t consider the bigger schools. Sorry, I hadn’t caught that upthread.

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