Eight months and 25 days ago, my sojourn into the world of applying to musical theatre programs began in earnest and today it ends. In this COVID year, this journey was akin to bunkering in an evacuation shelter as earthquakes, flash floods, and hurricanes raged concurrently outside; hopefully it bears no such resemblance for next year’s class and beyond. As part-interloper and part-sherpa to this process, I still have more questions than answers but hopefully the following description will be helpful in part to some of you as previous descriptions were for me. I found value in reading everyone’s journey in prior years as everyone’s perspective and story is unique and contains insights that helped us. For those of you without much time to spare, I’d suggest not wasting your time here, but to read the sage advice of @MTDad2025. The only way my vantage point might differ slightly is that I did find being familiar with the “prior process” helped despite it having changed due to COVID-19. Two other masterfully captured recounts are by @MyPennyX2 and @NYYFanNowMTdad.
For those of you about to embark on the college audition and application process for musical theatre, extremely valuable information can be found right here, somewhere in this College Confidential forum. In fact in our case, I believe everything we needed to know we found here.
The forum would get bashed a little from time-to-time, for some contributions speculative in nature or passing along what was openly admitted as hearsay or an unpopular but heartfelt opinion. But that’s just part of the conversation and well worth the sacrifice for the nuggets of truth and insight and 97% accuracy contained within. In fact, I prefered CC to all other forums discussing musical theatre programs. I found the information here most helpful; I believe it’s aided by the somewhat confidential nature of this forum. People generally can share and express themselves without fear of being shouted down; I hope that continues. Toward the end of the process, I started to use other social media forums to more effectively connect to families that have insights regarding specific schools; when CC took away the listing of MT programs altogether and previously lost the ability to see when new posts had been added to the MT program-specific sub-forums, CC lost key functionality; I hope both are re-established.
I’m respecting my daughter’s desire for privacy, but I’m so indebted to people on this forum for their help and guidance along the way, that I promised myself that I would pay it forward (a reason why this forum is so rich) so a compromise was reached: I would limit what I shared to what I felt was most important. Before I begin, I would like to thank all past and present contributors to this forum, an expression of parents helping parents out, and the new age incarnation of it takes an online internet village to raise a MT applicant. After all, we didn’t invent this process; we’re only trying to help our young applicants get through it. A special thank you, however, to @EmsDad, @CaMom13, @NYYFanNowMTdad, @soozievt, @Jasklo and @Gyokoren (the latter for sharing an interesting study). I’m especially indebted to you for your generosity of time, valuable insights and selfless guidance. Thank you to each of you from the bottom of my heart for helping my family out in multiple ways.
In a nutshell: The elevator speech version of this process goes something like this: “MT programs are generally small. The programs have many more qualified applicants than they do spots available so decide on your couple of safeties both from an academic and artistic vantage point, and then determine how many more schools you want to apply to and which MT programs seem like the best fits for the young aspiring performer; get to know the programs well enough to make that determination, but not so much that you begin to fall in love with specific programs early on in the process – a very fine line to walk I know. The good news is that there’s a plethora of great programs to choose from. You’ve got five minutes to show your stuff. Your mileage may vary.”
Now for a version that will go into more color and more insights. The application process took over my daughter’s life over everything except her senior year coursework and primary extracurricular activities. She loves to audition for and perform in shows, so there’s a lot to love about this process, but as she likes to remind me, you don’t have to fill out lengthy applications and write several essays each time you audition for a show. Demand for MT program spots greatly outstrips the number of spots at the more popular programs. Each program’s class size ranges from: smallest 5 - 11; below average 12 - 13; middle 14 - 16; above average 17 - 24; large 25+ but are even the last two categories really that large if they’re divided into sections? The acceptance rates are more daunting than the odds of getting into HYPS; let that hyper-competitiveness sink in. Despite the dearth of job prospects that await these same applicants four years down the road, I’m still a believer in the education they receive as it will carry them through whichever walk in life they take or so I like to tell myself.
Program fit: Because there are so many programs out there (and they tend to be small), it makes sense to come up with a list that the applicant believes are better fits based on weighting criteria important to the applicant. Criteria I would consider include geographic preference; professional training and / or academic emphasis; programs that are strong across the board or that tend to emphasize one discipline over another; the extent to which a program has built-in flexibility; the degree to which there are elective offerings within the major; the degree to which a minor in a different field is possible; the degree to which current students in the program are as passionate about musical theatre and performing arts and engaged in it as you are; what alumni are doing and even the extent of alumni involvement with the program. It’s possible to find programs that will tick every box for you; it just takes some work but it’s worth the investment in order to target schools that are closer matches. I would attempt to complete this assessment by the summer between junior and senior year. Knowing the relative weight is important, but it’s also possible that some of the weighting could change as the student goes through the process. They’re learning about the programs and what they want out of a program as they go through the process. I would not include expected net price as a criterion because I found that it is not always accurate so you may miss out on opportunities that would otherwise present themselves; more on this later. Applicants should dig as far as they need into a program in order to know what it’s about and to determine whether they want to apply to the program or not.
Thoughts on travel: I encourage early travel to visit prospective programs to be minimized and kept to junior year (unless you happen to be in an area anyway). A case where a trip could help: if you’re on the fence about studying in an area you’re unfamiliar with and ideally in a location where there are different types of schools you can visit. For instance, if you’re unfamiliar with New York City, and on the fence about whether you want to study there, take this trip and visit two to three different types of schools in or around the city. Some students love the vibe in New York City, are either comfortable or energized by it; enjoy the arts and cultural communities and offerings, and the campus within the city setting; others find they aren’t looking for that (at least not just yet or ever), while others like it in a manner akin to other locations so they can go either way. The applicant won’t know unless they experience it. Based on my travels, to assume NYC as a whole, and the specific school in NYC, would or would not be a fit, would be a mistake if the applicant has not been there because it’s a slightly different animal. Other trips can be accomplished as part of a live audition (assuming those resume) or after an offer has been received.
Important to remember but not to dwell on: In recent years, I think most MT programs get ten times the amount of qualified applicants (I’ll call that the “talent” hurdle) than they have spots available while most of the remaining programs will have more than enough qualified applicants to choose from; it stands to reason, then, that many factors will come into play in deciding which of these qualified applicants will make the cut besides talent for those that meet the talent hurdle. The programs have many different options for the composition of each class… not just one. That’s interesting to speculate about but not important because the extra factors the school might consider are beyond the applicant’s control. Moreover, these factors are also subject to change in importance or may morph for any school at any juncture.
Number of applications: Given the work and cost involved, each student / family is different in their willingness and ability to apply to “XY” number of programs. That needs to be taken into account and respected. The more balanced your school application list is and the more non-audition programs that are on it, the shorter your list can be to be confident you’ll receive a program offering.
12 different programs to consider: One of my favorite things about CC’s annual Decision Background recap threads is the ability to glean the perspective of families that had the opportunity to do a more thorough review of programs. To pay it forward, the twelve schools that stood out in a very positive light and I would urge you to consider IF and only if they’re a match for your prospective performer: Arizona State, Carnegie Mellon, Indiana, Juilliard, Manhattan School of Music, Michigan, Muhlenberg, New York University, University of Southern California, Western Connecticut, Western Michigan, and Wright State. I recommend each of them unconditionally IF you find there’s a fit for you but there are differences among these programs so not all of them will be a “best fit” for most applicants.
Manhattan School of Music (MSM): If you are interested in a Bachelor of Music in Musical Theatre and if you want to study in New York City at a conservatory, definitely apply to MSM. It’s a relatively young program but steadily guided by Lisa Gennaro, who I believe studied at NYU and taught at the MT program at Indiana University Bloomington.
Arizona State University (ASU): Another Bachelor of Music in Music Theatre program to consider is ASU, which has a deserved reputation for positive innovation.
New York University (NYU): NYU offers multiple strong options including a BM, BFA, BA and even joint or dual degrees. Some of the differences in the options are explained here. While New York City is not for everyone, if it is for you, I would consider NYU. I don’t believe you’ll find a school anywhere with as much breadth, depth and flexibility in their performing arts program. NYU offers top instruction in singing, acting, dance and storytelling. The drama faculty alone is extensive, 38 full-time members, and extremely in tune with and responsive to the students in the program. BFA students are broken down into sections within studios; in the New Studio on Broadway, there are 14 - 16 students per section. Every family with a young adult enrolled there is effusive in its praise of NYU and, by all accounts, a supportive community is formed. They do offer Early Decision I and Early Decision II as an option.
University of Southern California (USC): Another young program but don’t let that youth fool you; they’re under the wonderful and seasoned leadership of Kenneth Noel Mitchell, Karen Parks, and Kathryn Dunn who have established a terrific, integrated curriculum from one of the top acting programs in the nation, one of the top music programs in the nation, and one of the top dance programs in the nation. In fact, they’re few programs as strong in all three fields as this one.
Wright State University: This is a somewhat under the radar program. I know people consider it, but perhaps not to the extent it could be. I don’t have one bad thing to say about it, and its strong D-lab set-up for students, found at programs like NYU and Michigan, is a huge pull. You can’t go wrong here.
Muhlenberg College: Frequently, people want to know a good BA non-audition program to consider… well this is a great one. Definitely a different vibe from most (if not all) BFA programs but it’s different not sub-par. You don’t get an MT degree but you can major in two fields and either get a minor or certificate in one more if you bring in credits.
University of Michigan: Michigan’s BFA in Musical Theater gets bashed on CC a lot; I think its bashings are undeserved. It’s a top notch program with caring faculty.
Western Michigan University (WMU): @EmsDad chronicled his daughter’s experience at the WMU program. Suffice to say, residents of the Great Lakes state are blessed to have not one but TWO excellent MT programs run by state universities. It doesn’t matter that Wolverines in Ann Arbor are top dog, they offer a solid training program and university experience in Kalamazoo. Out-of-staters take note too.
Western Connecticut State University: Tim Howard is quietly running an excellent program with very talented faculty including Tony-award winning and nominated dance instructors. Some people complain that the campus is split with Performing Arts (and a few other specialities) on one campus and the other offerings on another, but the University of Michigan faces a similar situation and that’s never brought up.
Carnegie Mellon University: Dance is de-emphasized in the evaluative process, but it’s offered and those that want even more, take supplemental classes at Point Park. Carnegie Mellon is a true gem of a program, and they were very thorough (at least for this year…): five rounds of evaluation for select candidates.
Indiana University Bloomington: My daughter really connected with the MT students. A fine MT program and university.
The Juilliard School: Another school to consider if New York City and a stand alone conservatory are appealing. If your applicant is interested in studying one area intently, their drama, vocal performance and dance divisions can be considered. For many, that’s not a desired option, but if it is, Juilliard is a classy school in every way.
As is usually shared in CC:
Some MT programs don’t heavily weigh course rigor and student grades. While some programs consider them, it’s at most a part of the equation and in the majority of cases is not an insurmountable hurdle. It’s mostly about talent and potential at most audition programs. All schools offer scholarships and grants for coursework rigor, strong grades, financial need and artistic talent. So talent, strong academics and not requiring financial aid are the most an applicant can do to receive offers and secure a golden ticket; that’s the trifecta to strive for (as mentioned above, offering something different can be a critical component too but what the school is looking for is out of one’s control and subject to change). Taking challenging courses that you are up for, doing well in them and setting aside money to pay for college helps applicants achieve their dreams.
Most important advice (or what I found least accurate in CC and elsewhere):
My analysis of prior offers from schools based on what I gleaned from CC as well as a separate analysis using outside sources was all over the map – sometimes accurate and sometimes polar opposite; I projected programs on likely best to worst value offer, and sometimes they were spot on but just as many times they were the exact opposite; I batted only .400; that gets you a spot in the majors but fired on Wall Street. Similarly, I even found net price calculators to not always reflect the net price. So my finding to pass along to you is: don’t attempt to project the likely outcome based on others results in CC or even what you project to be affordable and not affordable because all you’re doing is unnecessarily cutting out great opportunities from your list. Select schools solely based on desired fit, and since it is, for the most part, an artistically-based decision, as many dream outcomes as you are willing and able to apply for . Upfront, you do have to gauge the number of schools it is feasible to apply to . I’m sure there are many people who will disagree with me but I would say offers will vary too much year-to-year to project accurately based on prior outcomes. For illustrative purposes:
Program A - projected best offer - actual result: third worst offer
Program B - projected 2nd best offer - actual result: penultimate worst offer
Program C - projected 3rd best offer - actual result: 4th best offer
Program D - projected 4th best offer - actual result: mid-tier offer
Program E - projected middle tier offer - actual result: mid-tier offer
Program F - projected middle tier offer - actual result: mid-tier offer
Program G - projected middle tier offer - actual result: 3rd best offer
Program H - projected third worst offer - actual result: best offer
Program I - projected penultimate worst offer - actual result: worst offer
Progam J - projected worst offer - actual result: 2nd best offer
As you can see, if we had cut out schools based on where we thought she would receive the best packages, we would have lopped off a couple better ones.
Gen ed / liberal arts credits: Regardless of the program, I found these requirements to be anywhere from 22% to 33% of a student’s studies. Given the degree that people talk about this, I was expecting a much wider range. The fact that the range is relatively narrow, I consider this a non-distinguishing factor among programs, even if it does make sense to look at the options available to complete required coursework.
Regrets: Thankfully few. My daughter was strongly advised to put a housing deposit down on a waitlist school as soon as possible and prior to May 1st. Most schools will refund that money prior to May 1st in any event. But two issues: while most issue a refund, some would not, and don’t let the latter sucker you into an early deposit.
Early Decision is an option for some programs. While not pursuing this option is not an after-the-fact regret, it’s something I would more strongly advise an applicant to consider if we were doing it all over again, and if one of your applicant’s top contenders offers it and you know you would accept that offer.
Control the stress level: I won’t lie, it was an emotional rollercoaster, with highs and lows, nailbiter until the end, unexpected turns, unnerving weeks increasingly on edge and thrilling steep rides. But we controlled the stress level by recounting Richard Niebuhr’s serenity prayer, focusing on what she loves (auditioning and performing) and her attempting not to fall in love with a particular program until an offer was in hand. That’s what worked for us.
Inside scoop: Once offers are received, get the lowdown and perspective of the parents and students who are recent graduates and currently attending these programs. I found there was a huge difference between what these people had to say and those not in the programs, even from those making college admissions their vocation. Those on the outside had difficulty providing substance, proper context and / or even accuracy.
Some programs facilitated visiting facilities and having face-to-face and / or virtual observation of classes, while other programs did not. While frustrating, we came to appreciate that those programs not integrating prospective students were adhering to their focus on the current student body. It wasn’t just lip service; they walked the walk. As a result, in some cases my daughter interacted with recently-graduated, current and prospective students to arrive at opinions concerning programs and what might be a better fit for her.
The future: It will be interesting to see the long-term impact on universities as a result of COVID-19. Life could largely revert to how it was before, but perhaps universities will make a number of changes. The one thing that is interesting about theater is that it’s hard to recreate the same connection when it’s not in person; at least in my view, but perhaps others feel differently.
Before I forget… the “stats:”
Programs Applied to: 36
Prescreens: 21 of 25 passed
Schools that showed themselves in a very positive light: Arizona State, Carnegie Mellon, Indiana, Juilliard, Manhattan School of Music, Michigan, Muhlenberg, New York University (NYU), University of Southern California (USC), Western Connecticut, Western Michigan, and Wright State.
Artistically accepted to: 8
Waitlisted at: 6
Withdrew from: 7
Rejected artistically from: everyone else
Coach: Yes
Summer programs: One in 2019; nothing in 2020 (the “COVID” summer)
Last thoughts: Buckle up, and godspeed on your journey
Final decision: In the end, she was primarily deciding between NYU Tisch School of the Arts and USC School of Dramatic Arts. Even though the programs are different, she felt she would thrive at either of them. In the end, selecting NYU over USC had more to do with what NYU offered (as opposed to what USC did not offer). What she liked about NYU Tisch:
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The quality of acting, singing, dance and storytelling training offered (which she found at USC too)
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Ten different professional theatre studio offerings at NYU; a lot to grow from and benefit from
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16% of the coursework are electives (that’s more than most – if not all – BFA and BM programs) and the number of electives to choose from
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In addition to the electives, the professional training in junior and senior years is based on whichever route the student is interested in pursuing (understanding that an audition is required in some cases). She was intrigued by what Tisch students have been able to achieve in four years and the program’s overall flexibility for every student in the program.
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Large base of full-time drama faculty (38), the extent of their commitment to the students and the degree to which students felt they have a close relationship with the faculty; moreover, the diverse points of view adds value to the program.
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The extent of positive reviews from recent graduates and current students; we couldn’t find anyone not giving a rave review of their education, artistic growth and overall experience
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Dance and music theory training leveled from the beginning (enhancing the likelihood you’ll start off at a well-adjusted level)
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The main issue raised by families, the need for an additional performance space, they felt was being addressed by this new facility under construction.
While I was concerned about administration being tone deaf and unresponsive, we couldn’t find one family that felt that was the case; in fact, they felt the exact opposite.
As this trip ends, I do have two questions that were never answered. Perhaps some of you have answers.
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Why do college athletic recruiters seek as much footage as possible of prospective recruits they’re interested in, while footage for MT performers isn’t generally sought? (I don’t think it’s about “fairness” because 99% of programs take into account whether an applicant needs financial aid or not. It’s probably about lack of time or resources on their end but welcome other insights.)
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Why is so much emphasis placed on MT performers to “be themselves” whereas performers are usually asked to transform into someone they’re not, and to do it so well, that their performance is deemed authentic and captivating?