S22 likely will be a NMF. It’s not official (and will not be until later this month), but he has the selection index and qualifying score. So, now the quandary (and it is a nice one to have), do you chase prestige or money?
S22 wants to do computer science. We are in Tennessee (so the best schools are OOS). We have a fixed budget of roughly $45K/year. S22 has a 3.95 unweighted GPA, is an IB diploma student with 4 HLs (with HLs in Math, Business, Physics, and English), and a 34 on the ACT. He is president of his high school robotics team. He is a well-qualified student (and there are thousands like him out there).
But, being a lawyer, I know nothing about computer science. At what point does prestige matter? I am sure that S22 will want to go to grad school. So, being able to graduate from undergraduate and graduate school debt free would be nice. Alabama is free (for five years, I mean it’s like backing a dumptruck of money for NMFs). Arizona State has nice scholarships. But, are they adequate for a future in computer science? Texas A&M has a nice in-state option (though there is ETAM). Do you take a few shots? If so, what schools? Considered advice appreciated. Thanks.
Don’t assume this. Things change. The reality is that most CS and SE grads do not go to graduate school.
This depends on who you ask. Some companies have pet schools. Most of those schools are longshots though like CMU, Harvey-Mudd, Stanford, etc., and all would be well outside your price range.
Most of salary is based on location and company, regardless of the school.
I say don’t break the bank. Think of what your son’s life would be like if he went to one of the free options, you invested the difference, and gave him the money 30 or 40 years later.
That said, one school worth considering is Cal Poly (full disclosure, my son is a grad BS/MS ME). Full price it is right at your limit, $47k per year. they do a very good job at placing CS and SE grads. It is HIGHLY competitive though. They received over 5000 applications for 170 spots last year. All CA public schools are not considering test scores for the foreseeable future. GPA is the number one metric in their admissions algorithm. NMF is not considered in their algorithm.
@Peruna1998 I hear you. My DS22 will very likely be NMSF, and he could potentially pursue engineering at UF for free (Bright Futures + Benacquisto, we are in-state), so we might be faced with the same dilemma.
Hope the following article helps you in your decision!
I have talked to S22 about Purdue. He is not interested. He is applying to Ohio State, Indiana, and Maryland. If Benacquisto had not gone away for OOS, I am positive UF would have been his first choice. He loves Disney and realistic or not, he would think he could get down to the parks every month.
I have seen CS grads due well in all sorts of schools from small religious private to large state U and everything in between (or outside those parameters if people don’t feel those are adequate “ends”). The key seems to be how much the student knows or how talented they are. I’m not sure they learn it all at college TBH. I’m pretty sure for some they’d do well without a degree too, but it seems good to have a degree to check boxes if needed.
Opportunities at schools can differ though - that can be worth looking into. Schools like RIT are popular because they have a lot of hands on and do an internship as part of the rotation. Many I know ended up happily employed where they interned.
At research U’s that have a fair number of undergrads doing research (state and private), CS students can get hands on there if doing the research side of things (coding) appeals to them. It’s not always CS research - it’s doing the coding for other researchers.
If you have some $$ to be flexible, it’s worth it to delve into what different colleges offer to see what’s appealing. There should be a bit on college websites - looking into the department pages and seeing what profs or students are doing. The CS students I’ve encountered have done well finding schools for themselves this way (visits too if you can once you get some candidates online).
The more things at a school that interest the student, the more points the school should get. One never knows when a professor retires, a project ends, or the project is full. Multiple options are good.
That’s not the be all, end all though. As I said in my first paragraph, I’ve seen success (in this case defined as a 6 figure starting salary with choices to choose from) come from a variety of schools if it’s a talented grad. Beware that not all grads from any school are talented grads. A degree doesn’t make one talented at the job.
IMHO no undergrad CS degree is worth debt or sacrificing things like saving for retirement. CS grads from state U can do well. Internships are also important.
Nothing wrong with UT Knoxville.
Georgia Tech would be at the high end of your budget. NC State would also be at high end OOS but they have a few competitive scholarships. UT-Dallas used to offer merit. Ohio State would offer merit most likely.
FSU most likely give In-state tuition waiver and auto honors college for NMSF. S21 is there now. S20 is at Georgia Tech. Both are happy.
Doesn’t UCF still offer big NMF merit? Their CS is excellent and their Honors College takes good care of top students, with excellent housing as well as academics. This is the school that’s near the Orlando parks, not UF.
UT Dallas is another big-NMF-merit school with strong CS.
Noticing that he’s done some business stuff as well… if he’s interested in a CS major within an interdisciplinary CS+Business+Design honors cohort program, look at the Raikes School at UNL. He’d get significant merit, and it’s a unique program with a high-achieving cohort.
If he would like a co-op based CS program, U of Cincinnati has a great program and offers big merit awards.
If you are considering the large publics, I recommend University of Texas and the Turing program. They have a reasonable path to gaining in state tuition by the second year.
An additional factor for many of the large publics, is their lenient credit for IB/AP and dual credit classes. Look at how his IB and other credits transfer. A path to finishing undergrad in three years may allow certain schools to come in under your overall budget. This applies to many publics, but we found the private schools were considerably stricter, and made a path to graduation in three years almost impossible.
As has been discussed on this site many times, the top 50 to 100 CS schools are all capable of educating almost all students so they are ready for technical interviews and jobs anywhere. Where will the student be most comfortable and find like minded peers is more important than prestige of the degree.
Wherever you apply make sure to have a few safeties. CS programs are super competitive. Their admission % is typically lower/much lower than a college’s overall rate. Standards are also higher.
I think UTK is a given - but I would ask does your son want a large school. I think UF is a given if he does because it meets budget.
I don’t get IU - gorgeous campus - but Purdue is the public to go there. IU doesn’t formally have engineering but yes does CS.
Bama and UAH (if he wants smaller) will hit target.
If you want to get into a different type of school, he can “hopefully” get merit at:
A Rice or Northwestern type depending on your financial situation. Or a Rochester that gives aid. USC gives half tuition so will be a bit over.
An RPI, WPI, CWRU or RHIT - smaller and more focused and likely aid.
Also, he’d get $30K (vs. $38K tuition) at U of Arizona - and they have a wonderful Honors facility (dorm, dining hall gym) and Arizona State is another popular with with arguably one of the top Honors programs.
Lots of options for even less than $40K. Someone mentioned FSU - that will be low 20s as will Arizona.
@eyemgh You are down the right path in terms of asking the question. Because there certainly isn’t one right answer. I think the one thing to keep in mind always is College is an investment and you should be evaluating the cost vs the outcome of your options.
What is his goal? If he’s a total computer geek, and has been coding and building computers in his bedroom for the last 5 years and his dream job is to work for some big tech firm in Silicon Valley then shooting for a Carnegie Mellon, Stanford, Berkley might be worth the $$
Is he a practical kid that thinks, I really like computers and know that this major will be in demand and will be happy landing a job with a company but likely will go back and get his MBA down the road than that might say I don’t need to pay the extra $$ for “prestige”
Regardless of the choice it comes down to finding a school that is a good fit, where he’s going to be involved. A big part of college outcomes is tied to students participation in campus activities outside of class. Best of luck and update your post as you continue on the journey
The path is well documented and has multiple options. One should not completely bank on it, but it is reasonable. I agree that purchasing a condo in Texas is beyond most, but the ‘reasonable’ option is owning a business in Texas. Many have done with a new side hustle or formalized and continued work they were doing in High School. It’s not a path for everyone, but it’s an option for many.
Another U that hasn’t been mentioned is USoCal. They offer generous merit to students they want—50% tuition to NMFs the accept up to 100% tuition for select students. They are very competitive for admittance but may be worth adding to your mix, if it is a good fit. (Both my kids are alums—S in EE andD in cinema.)
USC is about 5k above their budget with the 1/2 tuition scholarship. If they are willing/able to flex, it is a reasonable option. Just make sure that you show them some love and make the early deadline to be eligible for some of the other scholarships.
Until recently, S22 wanted to be an Imagineer. He wanted to do that since he was 5. As he got older, he wanted to build and design roller coasters. That’s mechanical engineering. We even pulled connections for him to meet young Imagineers working on Stars Wars land. Unfortunately (or fortunately), he read a lot about how Disney treated many of the Imagineers that worked on building Shanghai. Suffice to say, the Mouse did not treat them well. It was a lot of piece work. When COVID hit, a lot of Imagineers got a pink slip. While S22 still loves Disney, I think that soured him on that dream, and realistically it was a dream.
This year he took to coding. On his own he entered the Apple SWIFT competition and was recognized as a high school student. But for COVID, he would have been invited to WWDC. He received a SWAG bag from Apple and wears his Apple hoodie religiously.
If pushed (and it is hard to get S22 to commit to anything), he cares deeply about not having any educational debt and if possible he wants to work for a FAANG (now, being a lawyer, I realize that working for a FAANG is like working for BIG LAW, but that is for him to figure out). Oh, and S22 does not want to be Tennessee, at all.
Unfortunately, you look at the schools FAANGs hire from most: Stanford, UC-B, UCLA, USC, Washington, and Texas are unaffordable and akin to getting into an Ivy. Could he get into one? Maybe. The OOS admissions rate to CS at Washington is 3%.
So, what is the path here? Arizona State seems to do well with the FAANGs. Texas A&M does well in the Texaplex (Aggie rings do mean something). Or, do you say screw it and take the money from 'Bama, work your butt off, and go for a graduate school reset?