Questions about PA, L’ville, PEA, HK

Prep School Admissions
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Some of my questions are school-specific and some are much more general.

Harkness questions:

  • For the schools that use Harkness, how much do the teachers actually teach during class? Though either lectures, or guiding/participating in the discussion?

  • For Exeter, since all classes use Harkness, is more of the actual learning and memorization of material done through homework?

For context, I am fairly good at articulating my thoughts (I’ve done debate for a while), and think I would do well in a discussion based setting. However, I don’t mind listening to a lecture and actually find that I learn very well that way. From the videos I’ve seen online, the Harkness teachers seem a bit hands off and let the conversation meander how it will.

General questions:

  • How are the English/History departments? Which school is best in that area?

  • Which school has the most political tolerance for republican students?

  • Any significant differences in campus culture between these schools? I don’t mean location or size, but just how the students interact with each other or how the campuses are set up.

  • In terms of college admissions, how competitive are students with each other about getting into, say, an ivy school? Does this create a stigma about going to a lower raked school?

  • Which schools have a “work hard/play hard” mentality?

  • Are you able to take elective classes sophomore year at any of these schools? I have found conflicting information about this.

  • For the virtual re-visits some schools are offering class sit-ins at night. Do any of these schools have scheduled evening classes outside of the normal school day?

PA and PEA specific questions:

  • I noticed on the Andover class schedule that there are seven class periods a day, but I think in the courses book you are only allowed to take five, so are the other two just study periods?

  • Exeter - from the virtual events I get a feeling that exeter takes a lot (maybe too much?) pride in being ranked number one. For example, at one of the virtual events students were asked why they chose Exeter. One of the boys said “I chose Exeter because everyone knows what Exeter is and what it represents. I know that it is something that will help me a lot to have on resumes because it is recognizable, and everyone knows it’s a really good school.” Obviously the statements the kid made are largely true, but it makes me wonder if the culture of the campus is a bit arrogant?

Huge thank you to anyone who can help me out answering some of these!!!

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For PA:
Class schedule: Most students take 5 courses a term, sometimes 6. There are gaps during the day when you won’t have a scheduled class, but some of your peers might. Additionally, no class meets every day. This link might be helpful:

Outside the “normal” school day in a non-pandemic year, there are no evening classes. The school has added evening classes this year only, to accommodate the international students.

You can take electives 10th grade. Usually, it is an art.

At PA, students (as a whole) do not openly discuss college admission and students seem to support each other’s college choice. I know of no stigma. The students are truly focused on “best fit.”

PA does not rank students and there truly does not seem to be direct competition between them. When my child was in LPS, students would compare grades, there would be end of the year award ceremonies honoring specific students and the environment was much more individually competitive than at PA.

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I’m a current sophomore at Lawrenceville. Hope these answers help!

For the schools that use Harkness, how much do the teachers actually teach during class? Though either lectures, or guiding/participating in the discussion?

Usually, the teachers just keep the conversation stable, introducing new prompts or ideas when necessary (such as when the conversation is dying down). In math and science, you’ll see the teacher play a lot more of an active role and intervening when difficulties arise—additionally, when new content is covered in class (in any class) there’ll be lectures or interactive lessons on those days in any subject. The one thing that remains common everywhere is a lot of groupwork, whether with the whole class or split up.

How are the English/History departments? Which school is best in that area?

I can’t say which school is the best (only having experience with one), but the teachers are amazing, especially in those two subjects. They’re readily available to help you out, and you always find yourself learning something new or interesting each day.

Which school has the most political tolerance for republican students?

Again, I can’t compare them, but Lawrenceville is pretty tolerant—the only expectation is that you back up your ideas properly, and no matter what your ideology, if you make incorrect claims you will be called out for it.

Any significant differences in campus culture between these schools? I don’t mean location or size, but just how the students interact with each other or how the campuses are set up.

So the most unique thing about Lville is the House System—especially in sophomore and junior year, a lot of your social life is based off your house. In freshman year everyone’s in the same house so that they can all meet each other, then you give the school a list of your friends at the end of the year to determine your house placement (they match you up with as many of them as possible). No matter if you’re a day student or boarder, your house is your home base on campus (I’m a day student and during the hours when I’m on campus, I spend as much time in/around the house as any boarder would), and they really work on building tight bonds between the students. Additionally, there’s inter-house events where different houses (usually of different genders) get together for activities (spikeball, Among Us, and speed dating are popular) on Saturday nights, not to mention the famous House Olympics at the beginning of each year. The other thing, of course, is Saturday classes, which IMO makes the campus a lot more lively—we day students get an excuse to stay late those days, and the boarders similarly won’t leave as much.

For your college question, I haven’t begun the college process yet, so I cannot comment.

Which schools have a “work hard/play hard” mentality?

Lawrenceville definitely has this—you work very intensely throughout the week, then completely let loose as soon as noon strikes on Saturday. Makes the weekend all the more satisfying.

Are you able to take elective classes sophomore year at any of these schools? I have found conflicting information about this.

There’s two cases where you can (this is assuming you are a four year student, by the way)

1.) If you have completed calculus or college level world languages, you can take electives in their respective departments (this is obviously quite rare).

2.) You can take two one-term electives, but one must be an area of interest in a specific art (visual or performing) and the other a Religion/Philosophy course (the third term is a mandatory “introduction to religious studies”).

For new sophomores, #2 instead requires you to choose art, music, or theatre, along with the same “introduction to religious studies.”

For the virtual re-visits some schools are offering class sit-ins at night. Do any of these schools have scheduled evening classes outside of the normal school day?

On neither the COVID based nor the “normal” schedule, no. The latest classes have ever ended is 3:20 PM, and the earliest they’ve began is 8:00 AM.

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Thank you so much for the reply!!! That’s really helpful information.

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To a great extent, this is the “normal” of most BS, even LDS, at least in our area. Even if they don’t call it Harkness, the desks are often arranged in a circle and much of the learning is done through the discussion generated by the students.

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I’ve heard a few times that exeter is more rigorous than andover academically. Is this true? I honestly kind of doubt it, but I’m curious to hear what others think.

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Nobody here went to both Andover and Exeter, and anyone’s opinions based on their kids will be second-hand.

But as I always say, asking which is least rigorour is likely asking which Kardashian sister is least rich. You’re splitting hairs.

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A10 is getting closer and closer - given the choice of all these great schools - I’m definitely interested in what school you’ll finally choose and what factor(s) end up deciding the issue for you.

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I am only going to comment on the college matriculation question that you asked because I just had a conversation with my kids about this last night. IMO, at these schools there is HUGE pressure around college matriculation. HUGE. I suppose some parents might disagree because they didn’t put that pressure on their kids but I think the school culture is filled with this pressure. Obviously my kids didn’t go to every school you listed but I have a hard time imagining it is so different from school to school at this level. Like PA has college pressure but PEA doesn’t? I doubt it. Everyone at these schools was the best and the brightest and the schools all think they are the best as well.

Don’t attend if you can’t take pressure - none of those schools is a relaxed environment. If that is what you are looking for you need a different school list.

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I officially enrolled at Andover Friday night. It was a very tough choice, but I’m super excited to be starting at PA in the fall, and am looking forward to the new challenge and experience it will bring.

The four main things I looked at when making a decision were 1: academic rigor, 2: extracurricular options (including a study abroad program), 3: location/school size/campus, and 4: school community/‘vibe’.

Academically they are all extremely strong, but I felt that PA and PEA were a bit more rigorous. All had excellent EC options (I’m interested in pretty basic ECs, so I wasn’t looking for anything too unique. ie, student paper, debate, mock trial). Exeter and L’ville stood out for study abroad programs, but all four had really neat offerings. In terms of location, I wanted to be near a city, so I liked Andover and L’ville. I was also looking for a bigger school, and Andover and Exeter both have a few hundred more students than L’ville and Hotchkiss. I loved the Hotchkiss campus, and I really liked Exeter’s campus as well.

Finding many similarities between the schools, and realizing that academically I would be challenged at any of them, a lot ultimately came down to school community and how I was able to perceive it from the revisit calls. Andover really stood out in this regard. All of the students they picked to speak on panels, from athletics to residential life, were not only articulate, but were also very thoughtful in all of their answers and seemed fairly down-to-earth and grateful (in contrast to some comments made by students at other schools). The interaction between students and staff on the calls was also noteworthy, and I liked that the students felt they could be serious while still making a joke every now and then, and seemed to be quite honest in their responses. Obviously schools are selective in what students they have on panels, but I also think that speaks to what the school values.

If I had to make the choice on M11, it likely would have still been Andover. However, the more I researched everywhere else, the more torn I became.

To be completely honest, all of the people who know me were also rooting for Andover. My mom insisted that she “doesn’t have an opinion and it’s completely up to me,” after ordering four t-shirts, a baseball cap, and a car magnet from the Andover online store lol. I’m also close family friends with the girl I spoke to who’s attending L’ville, and during our conversation she literally said “I absolutely love Lawrenceville, and think you would also love it here, but go to Andover. From everything I know you’ll do great there.” And ironically the Hotchkiss alum I spoke with (one of my mom’s friends) said the same.

The outreach I got from Andover was really personal, and I set up a call to speak with one of the AOs that helped to answer some of my and my parents questions. Hotchkiss outreach was also great. My parents were pushing for either A or H partially for that reason. They also weren’t huge fans of Exeter after an administrator said on one of the calls how great he thought this year’s (covid) policy was that parents aren’t allowed anywhere on campus. He went on to lament that although that policy would likely change after covid, he viewed it as an overall positive not a negative. As nervous as they already are that I’m leaving home early, this was a bit of a turn off.

Speaking to students at A and E really highlighted the similarities between those two in particular, and I learned so much more by speaking with them than I would have expected. They both gave me the same information on homework time, dorm life, and extracurricular opportunities. When I asked the Exeter girl why she chose E, she said it largely came down to Harkness. I love the idea of Harkness, but from research I figured that English/humanities classes at any of the schools would be fairly discussion based. The Andover girl talked about school community and some of the differences she had felt in that regard while on in person revisits at both schools. She also spoke to her sister’s experience at A, who came in as a new lower (like I am), and is graduating this year.

Thanks again to everyone on CC who’s answered my questions! You guys were a huge help in trying to figure things out with the craziness of virtual everything this year.

I hope that no one had too stressful of an A10, and is happy with whatever decision they’ve made!

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Summary: A lot came down to school community and gut feeling. My parents and I were leaning towards A as a first choice from the pre J15 calls, and got some very nice outreach from the school shortly after M10. The revisit calls really just sealed the deal.

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Great summary thank you. Curious about your question regarding which school is more accepting of Republican students. Do you think that they all are places where diversity of thought and experience are appreciated? Did Andover feel more accepting than the others? I’ve read that Exeter and Deerfield are where there are more conservative kids but my son didn’t apply to either of those.

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I honestly came to terms that they will all be fairly left-leaning, so there’s not a ton of getting around that. From what I’ve gathered, it seems that “diversity of thought and experience” are appreciated as long as they are shared in a thoughtful and open-minded manor. I have also read that Exeter has a more conservative student-body, but I think that information may be slightly dated. Actually, the PEA teachers and facility seemed the most liberal of the four, based off the calls, but I could be wrong about that.

My biggest concern was being ostracized for not lining up identically with the political views of classmates. I think that the student body is large enough that there won’t be complete uniformity of thought at any of the schools I was considering. I’m also confident that most students will be open minded enough to handle thoughtful/rational challenges to viewpoints.

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Congrats on making a choice. Gut feeling is definitely a big player in this game so no shame for making the decision based on that.

Two follow up comments:
One, for your parents, get ready to be disappointed. BS really don’t want parents involved. For me it was kind of like running into a brick wall after being a super involved middle school mom. I volunteered for everything - helped on field trips, coaches teams, organized events for teachers. Then my older one went to BS and they just have zero need to parents - when my son went I was already expecting it. Here’s why. I have several friends who have taught at BS all over New England. One of them actually left Taft because Taft did such a terrible job protecting teachers from over bearing entitled parents who thought their kids should get an A because they were paying for school. Most BS protect their teachers from those kinds of parents. And there are a lot of those kinds of parents out there.

Two, while the faculty of most BS are fairly liberal, the kids tend to be more middle of the road or conservative lite. The boys tend to be more conservative than the girls. My son is constantly coming home saying he had to call someone out for using racial or homophobic slurs. Remember that the kids come from all over the US so the kids are not a liberal enclave, even if the faculty is.

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Thanks for the insight!