1~2 gap years During high school for non-academic fine art program?

Parents Forum
1

Hello wise parents,

My 13 yo sculptor daughter loves sculpting and is pretty good at it. She is also good at academics and wants to do more than arts only. She can hold basic conversation in Spanish, and has taken 10 community college art courses. She is entering an academic (non-art) high school this Fall.

We are considering 3 weeks Summer programs at a Spanish atelier in Summer after Sophomore year. It already offered to take daughter then.

Then, if she wants to continue after the Summer art program, she could spend 1~2 more years there with two years long intensive sculpture program, starting after either sophomore or junior year. It won’t be a school year abroad as she won’t have time for academics.

She is one year younger for her grade, so she will only be 1 year older than her grade even after she spends full two years there.

After the gap year(s), if she still wants a college degree in a different major - science, business, she can go back to high school and apply to colleges.

She can already produce some decent art portfolio for college admissions level. After 4 more years at high school + 2 more years at the atelier, her art portfolio would probably be good enough to make a positive impact on selective college admissions, even when her major would be computer science, business, or simply letters and science dept.

I have been keep hearing that atypical extra curricular or experience is necessary for very competitive college admissions, in addition to good grade and test scores. Will this gap year(s) be helpful? I am guessing yes. But in what extent? By how much? Would it be something really cool? Or just another mediocre EC to the eyes of colleges? Any insight or ideas would be very helpful!

Thanks in advance!

2

I can’t imagine a gap would hurt her, but if she’s doing it to enhance her profile for college,
then it doesn’t make a lot of sense.

Someone who is passionate about their art is bound to make sacrifices.
If she’s targeting a more academic school, then sacrificing academics for art may not be looked at favorably, even if she makes it up in later years. If she’s thinking about art schools, they will already be admitting based on her on her portfolio and the sacrifice won’t matter much to them.

There are art and performing-oriented high schools where academics and arts get equal attention.
If there’s not one in your area, there are a few really good boarding schools that may help her accomplish what her time abroad would, without gapping or delaying her HS graduation.

Oxbow in Napa, CA
http://www.oxbowschool.org/

Idyllwild in So. CA
http://www.idyllwildarts.org/page.cfm?p=497

Interlochen in MI
http://academy.interlochen.org/visual-arts-major

Walnut Hill in MA
http://www.walnuthillarts.org/

3

@hop, thanks for the advise.

Of course she is not doing to enhance her profile. We just want to make informed decisions with all the likely positive and negative side effects, and hopefully minimize the sacrifices that she is bound to make.

She won’t be sacrificing academics though, and won’t be much weaker than other candidates for academic colleges. That’s why we are considering the gap year.

She had 3 weeks Summer camp at Interlochen last Summer. While she enjoyed it very much, afterward she decided to apply to academic highschools instead. She wants to experience regular high school.

Gapping or delaying her HS graduation itself is not a big concern. We are in no hurry. But if that pays back in terms of enhanced college admission profile, it would the decision that much easier.

4

It’s so refreshing to hear that she’s not in a hurry.
It sounds as if she’ll be successful in whatever she does, arts-oriented or not.
Kudo’s to you for allowing her to explore her passions, despite the unorthodox timeline.

5

This isn’t even a question I’d be considering now as it won’t happen for 2 full school years. You said you daughter wants to experience an academic high school. Let her experience it. She might be ready to go to ‘any school but this one’ by Christmas, or she might love it and never want to leave. She might have trouble fitting in at first because of her age, but might find her place during sophomore year and decide she wants to do a traditional 4 years and then to college.

I wouldn’t do it, but then I wouldn’t send my 14 year old to a boarding school for two years either. I was okay with 2-3 week camps or trips, and they often spent 8 weeks in the summer at my brother’s, but that was my limit until they went to college.

6

@twoinanddone , I am not sending her to anywhere. I am allowing her to go places that she wants to go because I trust that what she is doing is good for her, or prepare options for her future choices.

I like to prepare for the future and have options and alternative backup plans, because as you said, we don’t know what she might want in the future.

Do you think 1~2 years gap years, at an European atelier program normally for high school graduates, would be exotic enough to impact on selective college admissions?

7

“Do you think 1~2 years gap years, at an European atelier program normally for high school graduates, would be exotic enough to impact on selective college admissions?”

“Of Course she’s not doing it to enhance her profile.”

Which is it?

8

Kids change so much during puberty. I don’t think it makes a lot of sense to talk gap years with regards to a 13 year old.

Also, as a working artist who is back in school to further her education, I confess that “european atelier” just smacks of fancy schmancey overpriced pretentious baloney to me. Spending some time googling those “ateliers” did nothing to lessen my initial feeling with regards to those schools.

I lived in Italy; they’re not teaching drawing any better over there. Spend some time cutting through the hype and find the truth in a good program that ticks your kid’s boxes. When she’s older.

As far as impressing adcoms with EC’s, I’d say it’s her portfolio that’s going to make or break her, not the name of the “atelier” she attended.

2c…

9

A 13 year old girl living on her own for two years in a foreign country? She’s not going to be the same kid at all when she comes back from that. I can’t imagine the scenario of a kid going through a life-changing experience of dedicating herself to art for two solid years in a foreign country and then coming home and saying, “OK, done with that. Help me get into engineering school.” I would plan for her future based on who she is when she comes home.

Who is going to look out for this girl while she is abroad? I have a friend who will send her son of a similar age to live with some extended family in Italy for a year. He’s living with people who are looking out for him for more reasons than just money. Similarly, high school kids who go with Rotary have access to support if/when they need it. Safety and emotional support would be much higher on my list than “but what if colleges aren’t impressed?” as concerns.

10

Colleges, including elite academic schools, love outliers who do unusual things for the sake of art, music etc. Yes.

As the parent of kids involved in the arts, who were precocious in high school, I would counsel taking a long term view of your daughter’s life and the evolution of her sculpture or other things she gets into. And also a “whole child” view.

When she does get to an environment of talent, she will be one among many, which is a good thing, but some kids are used to being special in high school and it can be an adjustment.

Kids who are very talented in the arts at a young age sometimes end up quitting altogether. At this age, normalcy can be important, as can exploration of self, friendships and interests. Let her be a tortoise not a hare :slight_smile:

When the time comes she can do an arts supplement for elite academic schools and a portfolio for art schools. I would say continue to help her find appropriate ways to grow both inside and outside of school, in art and in life, support her going to summer programs or workshops that inspire her, and things will work out.

If, at 16 or so, she wants to spend time in Italy (and it is her idea, and she looks into it herself) it certainly might help with admissions but more important to ask is if it helps her art and her development. And, if she is safe in all ways to do that.

11

Speaking as a young adult just two years out of high school, I don’t think it’s a good idea. I understand that sculpting, at least from your portrayal of your daughter, is her passion. By all means, she should pursue art and sculpture if it is what she loves. But I don’t think it’s a good idea to pull her out of school at that age (she would be 15 or 16 at the time, if I understand correctly) to spend 1–2 years abroad in what sounds like a situation with questionable support. I also don’t think that it’s a good idea to plan this far ahead.

First, I think we all know that pre-teens and teenagers can change their minds in the blink of an eye. I know I did it at her age and continue to do it at the age of 19. Entering high school, I thought I wanted to get into the fashion industry, then sophomore year I was all aboard the chemistry train (which stopped abruptly upon taking AP Chemistry), then epidemiology, and now I’m studying technical writing. I understand that this is your daughter’s passion, but I don’t think it’s wise to bank on it. Just recently I read a thread which made mention of a daughter who was on track to study music performance but decided not to in the midst of college applications. And that’s fine.

I think it would be a much better idea to have your daughter enrolled in a high school with a strong arts program, either a private school with an arts focus or a public magnet school for the arts. That way, she’ll be taking arts classes of a higher level than what would be offered at a standard high school, but also getting a ‘normal’ high school education and experience. She could do entirely art-focused things during the summer if possible.

I went to a 6-week summer pre-college program —in a familiar city just a few hours drive from home— the summer after my junior year (I turned 17 a couple weeks into it). I’d been longing to attend the previous summer, but wouldn’t have been allowed to stay in the dorms since I would’ve been 15 at the beginning, so I waited, and I’m very glad that I did. I think that in the year that I waited, my maturity level increased a great deal and it allowed me to have a better experience than I might’ve had otherwise. The summer program was well-supervised—there were a few counselors (college students) per floor, plus other ‘real’ adults (staff members, professors, health services, etc.) there to watch out for us. We were required to sign in for curfew by 11 or 12 each night (it seemed stupid at the time, but looking back at it, it was a good thing). My parents were able to visit twice, once for parents weekend and once for my birthday. I met great friends there and came back a changed person. It was the first time I’d met so many like-minded people, experienced more independence, and really enjoyed academics. I ended up going to the college it was held at. I am glad I didn’t do it at age 15.

tl;dr: It might be best for your daughter to have a more typical high school experience, as she’s expressed interest in. I don’t think you need to discount a gap year or summer abroad, but I would choose the program very carefully and certainly wait until she’s 17 or 18, not 15.

12

Your daughter has 60+ college credits now and could skip high school altogether and apply to colleges now if she wanted to. You have posted frequently on the boarding school forum that your daughter wants a high school experience for maturing/socialization rather than academic reasons. If that is true, then I’m with @twoinanddone: Let her experience it. All four years of it.

Any questions you have about this topic should be discussed with the CC office at Grier where she will be attending soon. They will certainly be interested to know that she is considering this option and can give you solid advice. Remember, she may be applying to college from Grier and will need their support and cooperation; this is part of what you are paying for (even with FA), so you should use these resources as they were intended.

For your daughter and her unique background, college has already taken care of itself. You keep posting questions that indicate you are still worried about her chances at selective colleges. Not trying to be harsh, but you really need to let this go and stop managing your daughter’s education “career.” Let her go to Grier. Give the school a chance to do what it does best and let your daughter mature naturally into all she can be. You really don’t need to be this involved at this point.

13

Thanks for wise advises!

@eastcoascrazy , If she choose the atelier program whether for 3 weeks, 1 year or 2 years, than it will be for her personal development and life experience. But I still wants to know how much it will help on college admission too.

@MotherOfDragons , Thanks for your perspective.

http://academyofartbarcelona.com/courses/intensive-program/sculpture/

This program in Barcelona seems a rare program that will let dd test full immersion in sculpting without going to an art school. So far I haven’t found anything like it.

We have been discussing her possible future Summer camps. She doesn’t want those with taking college courses, as she has done that plenty. Math isn’t her favorite. Art she tried a camp last year. But she would prefer something at high level.

The atelier is normally for high school graduates, and likely offer more serious arts instruction than any highschool level Summer camp. And it kindly said it will make exception for daughter in Summer of 2018 when she is not yet 16.

She can already hold basic conversation in Spanish, and is planning to take 4 weeks Summer immersion course at a Spanish boarding school in Summer 2017. So it will help her to achieve proficiency in Spanish as well.

If she is going to major art, then I understand that her portfolio is the only thing that will matter. But I was wondering what if she is going to major something else.

Also, both European atelier and language immersion, while being look fancier, are actually much cheaper than U.S. ones.

@AroundHere , She will do that when she is 15, nearly 16. She has been going to a foreign country without us since 11 for months by her own choice. (where her extended family is) She decided to go to a boarding school at 12 on her own. She is emotionally quite mature, and always longs for more independence. In 2 more years from now, I don’t worry too much.

@compmom , I will keep your advises in mind! At 7 she told me that if she decided to become an artist, there will be nothing I can do to prevent her. After having devoted to art for 5 years, at 12 she decided that she wants to experience the whole word and do other things to in addition to art. I don’t know what she will want in the future. I wouldn’t know myself if I were her. But certainly I won’t send her anywhere unless it’s her choice. I do however, collect information and give her as many options as I can.

@Knittergirrl , Thanks for your refreshing perspective. It helps me to see from angles I didn’t have access to. I understand that she can change her minds often, even though she hasn’t don’t that often. I only want to be ready to make whatever future she chooses possible, with options and backups ready to present her in case she changes minds again again and again.

@ChoatieMom, I am very grateful that you are keep having interest on us!. You already know that she decided not to skip high school and I will respect her wishes. I will let her experience all 4 years, but if she wants to take a gap year or two in the middle, I will let her to do that too. If she changes her mind and skip remaining high school years after 2~3 years at Grier, I will also let her to do that.

I think colleges would have been taken care of itself if she wants to go to a UC campus, which is completely satisfactory. But she got this idea that she wants to try ivy admissions, so I support that decision too. I don’t want her to sacrifice anything important for that. But I am willing to use my life experience and research skills to collect information that will help her on making choices.

Haha, maybe I will retire from that when she starts at Grier in less than a month. I will try. But it’s fun for me. Also she appreciates my advises but only selectively takes them. I have far less influence than you might worry, and I am not actually “managing” anything any longer. It has been like that for 2 years or so.

I am more like, boss, here are possible options within the parameters that you laid out and our family finance, and here are cons and pros for each. You think about it, decide, and either contact them directly or let me do it. I will be also here if you need more information or my personal opinion.

14

It sounds like adding art to the usual HS experiences would be good whereas substituting it for the usual required HS courses and intending to make them up later would be detrimental. Staying with a regular style HS and getting the diploma at the usual age will give her many more options. Needing to do remedial work before getting accepted to a college because time was spent away from the usual HS academics will be frustrating. I’m sure she will benefit socially as well to be surrounded by a more diverse set of students in her age group. The art will always be there, postponing intensive work in it will not make a difference in future years while messing up her other HS experiences could.

Others have stated this- do not try to overplan her future. Be sure she is not deficient in other areas while letting her pursue her current passion along with doing well in other areas. Remember- despite a superlative arts portfolio she still will need to meet the same standards academically as other potential students at any college.

She is lucky she has talent and her parents have the finances to consider the extras. Do not skip the basics the others will get.

15

According to its website, the Barcelona Academy of Art teaches all of its classes in English, so I’m not sure what you think you’re “immersing” her in.

As far as “not finding anything like it” there are a LOT of for-profit art “schools” out there, including the infamous “San Francisco Academy of Art University” (that’s not a typo; that’s really their name).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/13/academy-of-art-fraud_n_1672162.html

http://observer.com/2015/08/for-profit-arts-school-in-san-francisco-under-fire/

Here’s one called “Watts Atelier” in San Diego:

http://www.wattsatelier.com/

It’s not super hard to find a place where you can pay artists to teach you. Probably the weirdest thing on the watts atelier website is that the recommendations by the “artists” only have the artist’s first name and first letter of their last name. No working artist on the planet that I know of is going to hide behind that when it comes to putting their name out there for their work. Just sayin’.

16

@wis75, Thanks for your advise. We are talking about adding a gap year rather than replacing an academic high school year. Academically she won’t be lacking any basics. She already has 60+ community college credits. Half in arts and half in various general education subjects.

17

A kid traveling without her parents is not the same as living without them (or other adults) at that age.

18

@MotherofDragons,

She will be home-staying with a Spanish family, hence immersion.

By anything else like it, I mean providing full time realistic sculpting (with some drawing but not painting) program that you can try before graduating high school. And hopefully not something too basic. She has taken 2 art history courses and 8 studio art courses in basics - drawing, 2d, 3d, sculpture and ceramics - at local community colleges already, and excelled in all of them. She has no problem continuing her own arts, with high school art teachers mentors. But if she is gonna take more formal programs, she prefers something more technical and advanced. And something with enough sculpting and not only drawing even in the first year.

19

@intparent, no it is not. She will be always living with reasonably trusted adults. I will be able to make a safe arrangement.

Or, my wife is also eager to take the atelier program for herself.

20

@wis75 “She is lucky she has talent and her parents have the finances to consider the extras.”

BTW, it’s not that we are rich. But the program costs only 7,000 euros per year. Not that it’s small, but compare it to what US schools would charge. And she is lucky that I can make that work, even though I won’t be able to send her to an art university without substantial scholarship.