<p>My mother couldn’t pay for us to go to LACs. I could pay for our kids
to go to LACs.</p>
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<p>I did an analysis of my starting salary to my son’s this morning. To
my somewhat surprise, he earns quite a bit more than I did in
inflation-adjusted terms, to what I made in my first job after
college. He also made more in his summer jobs than I made in my
summer jobs, in inflation-adjusted terms. How about the rest of the
parents here: are your kids making more or less than you did in your
first job? The calculation is a bit of a pain - find a CPI table and
multiply your starting salary by 1.0<cpi> for all of the intervening
years.</cpi></p>
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<p>That’s the sticker price. Need-based aid at state schools isn’t always
only loans. Furthermore, the old Hope Credit which was only good for
two years was expanded to four so there’s $2.5K per year to start
with. What I see with my son’s school is that they increased the
sticker price to provide more need-based aid. Full-pay students
subsidize those with need.</p>
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<p>Far more people are going to college today than way back when. Is the
pool of students that much better today than it was way back when or
have schools lowered the bar for entry? Should students be going to
college in the numbers that they are now? If we didn’t have to spread
financial aid over so many students, we could provide more in grants.</p>
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<p>I was thinking about unrealistic expectations in the working world
over the weekend and the show WKRP in Cincinatti came to mind. Crappy
studio to work in, crappy apartments where people lived, simple and
dumpy clothes. Maybe Barney Miller too. And I Love Lucy - lots of
scraps over money there. The newer stuff is more glamorous. Everyone
has to have a living room or den with a million books, a big screen,
late model car, nice clothes, smartphone, etc.</p>
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<p>I’m amazed that companies are willing to throw away their training
costs. It takes quite a bit of time, expense for us to train employees
in our environment and losing all of that is a huge pain for us.</p>
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<p>Maybe you guys are talking about vastly different kinds of employees.</p>
<p>Maybe in your industry…but you’re also ignoring another major factor in all of this which predated the 2008 election…the mentality among many corporations/businesses to cut corners and squeeze employees to excess to maximize profits…even if it causes sketchy employer practices like what my younger friends experienced…or worse…endangers the safety/welfare of the greater public.</p>
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</cpi></p>
<p>I’ve had this discussion with several engineer/business executive uncles some years back…and they warned me that even these metrics can be a bit off due to vast contextual changes and from their life experiences from the 50’s to the present in the US, such metrics sometimes severely underestimate the effects of inflation over the last several decades. </p>
<p>In short…you may be overestimating the actual buying power of your son’s income by using that inflation adjusted metric. </p>
<p>Moreover, what was once regarded as luxuries may be necessities due to education/job skills requirements. Back when I was a kid…computers were still regarded as an upper-middle class luxury and many in the older generations were slagging on Gen Xers like myself for having one/thinking of getting one for high school/college. </p>
<p>Nowadays, if you don’t have a computer with some level of internet access…it really limits you even for applying for fast-food type positions as some only take online applications. Especially considering one cannot always rely on having access to computer in a public library…and that’s assuming those computers are functioning or even exist. </p>
<p>A big assumption even nowadays…especially in poor neighborhoods/regions and with budget cutbacks. </p>
<p>Heck, I still know many working-class families who don’t have computers because they’re struggling with more pressing financial issues such as food and shelter. Gave away 10+ computers and provided some technical help/training so they have what has become an essential tool for job applications/learning basic essential skills for many jobs.</p>
<p>DON’T major in liberal arts unless you actually have a real job plan. Unless you are super-committed to law school or getting a PhD or something, at least major in business. Help yourself out with a useful degree. Then, you at least have time to think about your true calling while you hold a good job.</p>
<p>Students are just doing it to themselves. Not trying hard enough and shooting themselves in the foot</p>
<p>In 2009 ,only 27% of graduating Seniors from Tufts had jobs lined up . One took a job as a waiter in a nice restaurant ,another became a bank teller ! Not much different today .</p>
<p>In most of the corporations/businesses I’ve worked in, Business majors are often regarded as no different from “Liberal Arts” majors at best…and sometimes worse. </p>
<p>In one medium financial company in the Boston area, senior management were burned so badly by business majors from local regional public/private universities with abysmal quantitative and written/oral communication skills that they refused to hire anyone with an undergrad b-school degree unless it’s from an elite few like Wharton, UVA-McIntire or NYU-Stern. </p>
<p>On the other hand, they had less reluctance in hiring liberal arts grads from the same local regional public/private universities.</p>
<p>Moreover, majoring in pre-professional majors such as Engineering is no guarantee of secure employment. </p>
<p>Engineering fields go through cyclical periods which meant even experienced people can become unemployed for long periods…such as my CivE Uncle('50’s era Columbia SEAS grad) who was unemployed for a few years when Civil Engineering was in a downcycle and he ended up being a stay-at-home dad in a period when that was still stigmatized by society/mass media at large.</p>
<p>Also, I’ve lost count of how many times older relatives/friends from his generation and younger recounted knowing engineering grads who were driving taxis, doing odd jobs, or stay-at-home parenting because they graduated/laid off during a downturn in their engineering fields.</p>
<p>I think this thread has somewhat deviated from the original point. We are discussing if the kids are entitled and which generation had it harder. Whereas, I think the point of the article was, half of the kids with a college degree are not able to find a job requiring a college degree. From the anecdotal evidence from other people’s kids, this seems very much true. I think the real problem is in numbers. If there is say 100,000 gradutaes and only 50,000 jobs, then 50,000 graduates will not have a job, no matter how much each of them tries, networks, relocates and lowers his/her expectations. I would say as a society we definitely have a problem here.</p>
<p>Wikipedia says that we had about 20M students in colleges and universities. A very gross guess on graduates per year would be about 3M students per year (assuming 6-years graduation rate and ignoring the community college and graduate numbers). The March 2012 employment report showed that we added 120K jobs or 1.44M annualized. We need the employment numbers much, much higher for college graduates - and we’re not even counting the currently unemployed looking for work.</p>
<p>So yes, job availability is a big part of the problem.</p>
<p>"I think the real problem is in numbers. If there is say 100,000 gradutaes and only 50,000 jobs, then 50,000 graduates will not have a job, no matter how much each of them tries, networks, relocates and lowers his/her expectations. I would say as a society we definitely have a problem here. "</p>
<p>This.
It is easy to say that students are not trying hard enough and that is why they are unemployed or underemployed but the fact is the # of open entry level positions is limited. </p>
<p>Also, I think underemployment, which isn’t factored into most employment figures, is pervasive and almost as big a problem as unemployment. </p>
<p>Where you start your career, as a business major at least, is very important.</p>
<p>I volunteered to attend job fairs at two local unis tomorrow and Thursday. The HR guy gave me what looks like around 200 little totes with our logo. It’s going to be raining around here. I’m curious to see if the totes last.</p>
<p>Those are included in the U6 numbers. For March 2012, the headline U3 number was 8.2% and U6 was 14.2%. So not quite double but I think it was around double sometime last year.</p>
<p>So, please define underemployment for a 23 year old kid with little to no work experience and a diploma where the ink is still wet…</p>
<p>Also, again, please notice the title of the article–it is talking about kids that don’t have a job before they graduate, which is really NOT unheard of and quite surprising to me, anyway, that 50% of the new graduates HAVE jobs before they graduate. A lot of kids don’t even start looking until after they graduate which skews these numbers quite a bit.</p>
<p>That’s not been what I observed even back when I was in college…or moreso…when my older cousins attended in the '80s. Every one of us started applying as early as a year before graduation…except the few really slacking trustafarians. </p>
<p>Even so…things don’t always work out as an older Engineering major cousin from URochester ('89) found when he was one of the few among his classmates who didn’t have any job offers by the last month of his senior year because his GPA was ten-thousandth of a point below 3.0. </p>
<p>Instead, it took him another six months of searching while living at home and working various odd jobs before he got his first engineering job because his sub-3.0 GPA was a real turnoff despite the excellent rep of his college and famous rigor of his engineering program. It’s one reason why he was obsessive about reminding me to keep my cumulative undergrad GPA above a 3.0 during my undergrad.</p>
<p>^^Good one, parentofJunior. You are right, we have a serious problem here. But as far as getting people to stick to the original point of a thread, good luck. You never know when these threads will veer off into such essential topics such as chocolate or washlet bidets.</p>
<p>“In most of the corporations/businesses I’ve worked in, Business majors are often regarded as no different from “Liberal Arts” majors at best…and sometimes worse.
In one medium financial company in the Boston area, senior management were burned so badly by business majors from local regional public/private universities with abysmal quantitative and written/oral communication skills that they refused to hire anyone with an undergrad b-school degree unless it’s from an elite few like Wharton, UVA-McIntire or NYU-Stern.”</p>
<p>My older econ/cs son has a similar disdain of business majors. But when considering graduating stats of business majors from the two schools the younger one is considering (Lehigh School of business and economics, Bucknell School of Management), it looks pretty promising. Plenty of bucks and jobs.</p>
<p>If those figures are coming from those schools themselves, I’d take those figures with a grain of salt. It’s well known that colleges/universities play statistical games to massage their employment stats and other number to puff themselves up and to downplay/conceal their weaknesses. </p>
<p>Law schools and for-profit vocational colleges have been called out for the ridiculous and IMHO…criminal massaging of statistics in order to boost their grad employment rates…including hiring grads for “research positions” for only 9 months and counting those who are employed in non-law/vocational related odd jobs as waitressing as “employed”. Wouldn’t be surprised if other branches of the universities are doing the same on the downlow.</p>
<p>Moreover…that’s part of the school’s sales pitch. I don’t know about you…but I tend to be skeptical of any positive information coming out of a marketer/salesperson’s mouth unless I can verify it with more neutral third-party sources. Especially considering their main interest is trying to sell you something…whether it is a product/service…whether it works for you or not is not always at the top of their priorities.</p>
<p>cobrat–maybe in your area but look across the board–take teachers for example, they can’t even begin to start working until they get their license, which isn’t issued for quite a while after they graduate (take various tests, etc.), same with nurses, CPA’s, etc. While some may have offers or close to that, it isn’t unheard of not to have a job when you graduate–or even choose not to look for a job until after you graduate. I see nothing wrong with that at all.</p>
<p>As you know, H is in finance, and I can tell you that Lehigh, along with Wharton, UNC’s keenan flagler, Stern and Haas are undergrad programs he likes an awful lot. He won’t hire MBA’s, but will send people through an MBA at Booth or Kellogg and pay for it if they work for him for a few years.</p>
<p>Don’t know about Bucknell, but for business, Lehigh has a great rep among those already working, turns out good grads. I’m sure you’ve got your due dilligence on Bucknell.</p>
<p>Exactly. I will be graduating soon, and I know my first job out of college will probably not be anything too special. But it’ll be a job, and that job will give me experience that will eventually lead to better jobs and a better salary. I might have a tough road ahead of me, but what can you expect when you’re just out of college and have little to no experience? </p>
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<p>I can say from experience that looking for a job while in school is not as easy as it seems. I have sent out resumes to companies all across this part of the country throughout senior year, but I never heard back from a single one. And I wasn’t surprised. For one, in my field a lot of companies are looking for people who can start as soon as possible- not four to six months later when said student graduates. </p>
<p>Also, if you’re not living where you want to work then of course that can make job searching hard too. I’m willing to move anywhere for a job, but it can be difficult to convince employers to hire you straight out of college when you have little experience and live 8 hours away. </p>
<p>Nevertheless I still tried, and I never gave up. I’ve recently been on a few interviews so I have my fingers crossed. Hopefully, <em>hopefully</em> I’ll hear good news this week. :)</p>