1 in 2 new graduates jobless or underemployed

Parents Forum
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<p>They didn’t know about/have A/C until the late 1970’s/early 80’s. </p>

<p>The history of the A/C wasn’t from their knowledge…but mine from having studied Chinese and US history academically and from having a large circle of older friends/acquaintances who recounted technological and historical developments from their childhoods in the '20s, 30’s and so on. </p>

<p>I was putting their experiences together and connecting them with the historical knowledge I gathered from academic resources and accounts from older friends/acquaintances. </p>

<p>Incidentally, I am nearly fluent in Mandarin with a slight American accent and can understand about 90-95% of what’s on an average Chinese TV/online radio broadcast. When I was in China in the late '90s…had no problems blending in, carrying on lengthy conversations on a variety of topics, and pretending I was a native after two days.</p>

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<p>That’s your son…not necessarily the millennial as a whole. Most of my older cousins and I were well aware of the value of money by the time we were in junior high/high school. Hard to miss with the parents we had and from having worked many odd jobs ranging from my washing dishes at a pizzeria in early junior high to an older cousin working in a pickle packing plant during weekends/afterschool in junior high to save up for a high-end violin while borrowing one from a music teacher to learn and practice for rehearsals which enabled him to join the Symphony Hall youth orchestra. </p>

<p>I see the same things from the millenials…except that they’re feeling like they’re running at 100%+ and still falling behind while being subjected to unwarranted slagging generalizations from the older generations. Know many who were contributing to the family budget as young as my older cousins and I did…and feeling the same/greater budgetary pressures than we did at their age.</p>

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<p>But did you have shoes, BC? Being raised by Hippie baby boomers who thought perhaps shoes were too restrictive was rather interesting, in and of itself, though they did manage to fund their commune. no TV, chores every day, no privacy. blah, blah, blah. Until our grandparents, from The Greatest Generation, came and got us so we would be able to go to school. </p>

<p>And yes, my anecdotal evidence is just anectdotal, as is yours.</p>

<p>Very cool to be able to speak Mandarin, C.</p>

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<p>One data point that got me thinking was that my father, who worked in a textile factory, was able to send three children to good LAC’s without going into debt. Mom was a housewife. We kids had some debt, but it was pretty reasonable. That he could afford this was not so much because he had been frugal, but rather the cost of tuition was a lower percentage of what he earned than it is now for a similar type of job.</p>

<p>Fast forward to the present. Several years ago my son applied to and was admitted to my alma mater with their highest merit scholarship (which if they had it back then, I didn’t get it.) Despite the fact that our household income is greater than my parents’ was when adjusted for inflation, that college was too expensive for us to afford for our own S. And we do not live better than my parents did in the sense that our house is much smaller than theirs, we don’t eat out or drive fancy cars, etc.</p>

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<p>Tuition costs have jumped much higher than the rate of inflation and have put private colleges out of reach for most now state colleges are going the same way. Out of reach without huge debt, that is.</p>

<p>Back in the 70’s my parents, who were both high school teachers, were able to send my sister and I to the big state U and on to med school and law school out of their earnings and some small savings. </p>

<p>Today that would be totally impossible. The big state U is over $20,000/year. Back then it was a few hundred. My last year of law school cost me $800. Now it’s over $30,000. </p>

<p>Couple that with the fact that back then I could get a job practicing law. It only paid about $15,000, but I was a lawyer, not a barista. (Which of course didn’t exist back then). </p>

<p>If 50% are unemployed or underemployed, it cannot just be a factor of a ‘spoiled’ generation not wanting to take entry level jobs. It is a systemic problem with the economy.</p>

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<p>GFG:</p>

<p>Yes, college is EXPENSIVE. I think it’s been well documented that tution is rising far more rapidly than wages and inflation. </p>

<p>If I hadn’t raised an over achiever, I frankly don’t know how I could afford it. Of the 4 schools he was accepted at, he received merit awards at 3. We don’t qualify for any federal aid, so without the merit aid, the costs would have been staggering.</p>

<p>Even when I went to college about 25 years ago, I knew students who worked their way through school. Working part time jobs of 20-30 hours per week and over the summer and were able to pay their tution and living expenses. Today, I’m not sure that’d be possible. Even working for $10/hour the numbers wouldn’t add up to the TCOA at our IS public.</p>

<p>But this thread is more about after graduation. SOME, perhaps even most (but, I won’t even imply ALL), students were taught that if they work hard and go to college that when they graduate they will immediately have a “good life”. That they can afford to move wherever they want and get the job they want and buy a new car and get a “cool” apartment. But when they graduate and find that they have to accept a $10/hour job, somewhere they don’t want to live, and have to have roommates to afford a place to live that they don’t even really like, have to settle for a run-down used car, and are still barely able to pay their bills, they start thinking “WHAT DID I EVEN GO TO COLLEGE FOR???” Is this really all my college degree provides for me???</p>

<p>Where we have failed as parents is that instead of teaching our children that a college degree is a ticket to ‘success’, that we need to teach them that it’s just the ticket into the doorway. Yes, after 4 years of college, you will see that classmates that didn’t go to college, but have spent 4 years working in a job that doesn’t require a degree may have more than you. They may have been able to save some money. They might have a better apartment, a better car, a ‘better life’. They might have accrued more vacation time and while you’re in your entry level job working 50 hours per week, they’re waving good-bye to spend the week on the beach.</p>

<p>But fast forward 10 years and that degree did let you in a doorway. If you are dedicated and committed to trudging forward once you get in that doorway you can move forward. It doesn’t take much research to show that people with degrees do outearn those without degrees. Those people who didn’t go to school, will still be in those same jobs and most will have little hope of advancing. But after a few years you will find that your degree + your experience will give you new opportunities and after a few more years you might even be qualified for a job that…you want. After a few more years then you’ll realize that the effort you put into your degree really did pay off, but just because it doesn’t seem that way immediately doesn’t mean that the effort wasn’t worth it.</p>

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<p>Tatin- I wonder how many of my cohort were underemployed. If the definition is taking a job where you are overqualified, then every single person I knew back in the late 70’s and early 80’s was underemployed. I don’t think that definition existed back then.</p>

<p>Friends worked in the “management training program” of a large retail chain alongside kids with HS diplomas and “fashion school” degrees (not sure if those schools exist anymore- places like Tobe-Coburn which gave you a certificate in merchandising or retail management). Paid 10K per year, and you had to pay for your own relocation. Job was probably 65 hours a week, no overtime since you were “management”. So I guess they were underemployed- job required a HS diploma and they had BA degrees from an Ivy League institution.</p>

<p>Friend worked as a “gofer” for a small magazine. Made coffee, did the xeroxing. Job didn’t even require a HS diploma- the last person who had the job was a HS drop-out.</p>

<p>Car rental companies, large hotel chains, all the hospitality/travel companies had entry level jobs where you started at the front desk dealing with customers before you could get promoted into the management training program. None required a college degree except for Disney. The pay was lousy; they did have medical benefits however. This is where you started a “business” career.</p>

<p>The kids who I know would think I was nuts suggesting that they work at Hertz or Avis or Hilton hotels in a customer service job. Wear a uniform? Work nights? Are you joking?</p>

<p>So no, I don’t think they’re spoiled, but I do think they watch too much TV, they see their generation sitting in corner offices and having fun with friends in cool bars at 6 pm after a hard day of work, wearing cute clothes, and think, “When I graduate from college that’s gonna be me”.</p>

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<p>Are those kids who are working at theme parks, or car rental counters, or waitressing, ever going to move up into management because they have a college degree?</p>

<p>I have friends whose children have graduated from expensive colleges who are working as waitresses, temp jobs, freelance jobs, none of which required a degree. Will their employers move them up simply because of the degree or based on the work experience they are putting in? Are they treating degreed workers differently than non-degreed workers?</p>

<p>Studies based on the past may no longer be relevant.</p>

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<p>So to summarize, we are all ticked off at all the other generations who just don’t understand our own personal travails and how we did or didn’t or aren’t or can’t overcome the rotten economy that we entered after college. </p>

<p>And yet, major corporations continue to report huge profits.</p>

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<p>"So no, I don’t think they’re spoiled, but I do think they watch too much TV, they see their generation sitting in corner offices and having fun with friends in cool bars at 6 pm after a hard day of work, wearing cute clothes, and think, “When I graduate from college that’s gonna be me”. </p>

<p>And what they don’t realize is that many of those kids are either getting plenty of family support, or are highly in debt. Unless they were one of the fortunate kids that got marketable skills in college, followed by a great paying job.</p>

<p>I do think, though college costs have risen grotesquely, that sure, you can work your way through college. If you are still able to live at home, then you can do it. The cost of going to community college for two years and public university is easily supported by a lower wage full time job. 40 hours/week most places will get you $17-20K/yr. You can save tons of money the first two years in cc, and cut the work schedule back the last two years. It wouldn’t be easy or comfortable, and you would need to live at home, not everyone could do that. Plenty do, though. It is not required that you must go to a 55K/yr school in order to succeed.</p>

<p>Though my kids would look at me like I was crazy if I suggested that.</p>

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<p>The reason college graduates are unemployed should be obvious to anyone with a functioning brain: OUTSOURCING.</p>

<p>Over the past two decades, millions of jobs have been outsourced to other countries. Not just manufacturing jobs, but even legal work is now outsourced to countries like India.</p>

<p>Outsourcing is the reason why we have such cheap consumer goods now, but no jobs. A new college graduate can buy a pair of shoes for five dollars, but can’t get a job making ten dollars an hour.</p>

<p>If the outsourcing trend continues to grow, very few people in America will have jobs.</p>

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<p>Tatin:</p>

<p>I definitely won’t speak for waitresses since I don’t know what their ‘upward mobility’ would be, but for the ones that work at theme parks or car rental counters, most companys have internal job listings and once you have a year of experience you can look for internal opportunites that you are qualified for.</p>

<p>Also if you can’t find anything internally, you can continue to look for work while using that position to pay the bills. After a couple years, you can look for opportunities that are looking for 2+ years of customer service experience.</p>

<p>Also temping is a great way to network. I temped for over 2 years and met people in businesses all over the city I was living in. If they were impressed by my work as a temp, many offered to keep their eyes open on their internal listings for something that might work for me on a permanent basis.</p>

<p>A lot of corporations provide incentives to employees that recommend new hires, so current employees might be motivated to recommend a temp for a permanent position if they’re confident they will get hired.</p>

<p>Also there are a lot of temp-to-perm position. A lot of companys are scaling back on their HR departments and use temp agencies to recruit employees for them, so often you can get a job through a temp agency that will turn into a permanent position at the company.</p>

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<p>The temp agency path can be a good one. I know some stay-at-home moms who got back into the work force that way. But I also know several who are still temping at the same company after 2 years. I think it costs the company less to keep them this way than it would to hire them permanently.</p>

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<p>I also know several younger friends who were hired as “temp-to-perm” and then fired and replaced with another temp right before the contracted temp period was to end despite excellent written feedback. </p>

<p>Later found this was standard practice at many companies to avoid paying benefits and possibly higher salaries.</p>

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<p>A lot of companies are only hiring as permanent employees with benefits those people who are deemed absolutely essential. Partly to save the cost of benefits but also because the cost of Obamacare is such a great unknown. Employers don’t want to take the risk.</p>

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<p>Some of the unrealistic expectations today’s students have are fed by the colleges themselves as a way to sell students on paying the exorbitant costs.</p>

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<p>Yes, every year my mother would drag me down to Filene’s basement in Boston and buy a pair that didn’t fit. It would take a month or so for them to stretch out.</p>

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<p>How would that work in 5 degree weather with three feet of snow on the ground?</p>

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<p>Which would you choose, food or shoes?</p>

<p>One advantage of going without food - no obesity problems.</p>

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<p>Actually, the practice I described with my younger friends in sketchy temp-to-perm positions was already standard practice with many companies well before 2008. Thus…I think your political referencing above isn’t as key of a factor as you’re implying above. </p>

<p>It’s the same mentality which causes corporations to cut corners on products/services…sometimes to the point it endangers safety as the saga of exploding laptop batteries manufactured by Sony and used by many other notebook manufacturers has proven a few years back…or the disturbingly high number of exploding/flaming computer power supplies in some lower-tiered OEM manufactured PCs…<em>cough</em> eMachines <em>cough</em>.</p>

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I hire for a top law firm, cobrat. That is what I do for a living and I’m a member of two organizations for other people who do the same thing. I’m not asking for one of your anecdotes or your opinion on my job. I am TELLING YOU what happens in my industry and why it is happening.</p>

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<p>And I’m TELLING YOU what my younger friends experienced from having been subjected to sketchy temp-to-fulltime hiring practices despite excellent written feedback which I saw with my own eyes. </p>

<p>The part about my finding out that was standard practice for some companies was from people I know who hire for companies and are relaying hiring trends as well as from some labor law attorneys who have been approached by some of those friends seeking legal remedies for the sketchy experiences. And they all took place before 2008.</p>

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There have always been sketchy practices, but it was unheard of in certain industries. Now it is completely widespread and uncertainty is the reason.</p>