<p>
That’s certainly a critical, unappreciated skill. I think Norbert Wiener could do it in .53 seconds.</p>
<p>Blossom–I was joking about FB! Thanks for the advice, though. I never heard of Vault before.</p>
<p>graduated with honors in 2011 from a top school. I have looked for jobs within and beyond (FAR beyond) my field, but they’re simply not there–or they do not pay enough.</p>
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<p>The end of that sentence speaks volumes.</p>
<p>My D also graduated with honors in 2011 from a top school. She looked for jobs, they weren’t there … so she got a job that did not pay enough. She scrimped, made it on her own, and recently was hired in a terrific job. Know what 4 of the 5 people who interviewed her at company that hired her wanted to talk about? What it was like working at Starbucks. </p>
<p>Jobs ARE hard to come by. You will probably have to accept less than you want to earn or you might even have to live in … gasp! … middle America. Get a job doing something so that you can show some motivation. Send out tons of resumes. Keep trying. Eventually, something better than minimum wage will show up if you keep at it.</p>
<p>My son graduated from Penn in 2010 with a degree in English and just short of a minor in economics. Here is what I think he did right given the state of the economy.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>He worked at good jobs during college. I didn’t want him to, but he wanted more spending money. He was a marketing intern at a law firm and then a paralegal at a different law firm. Penn students had a lot of options for good off-campus (and on-campus) jobs. This work experience really paid off when he was interviewing for a post-college job.</p></li>
<li><p>He wanted to leave the northeast. He targeted cities that were less popular with his classmates. He was creative in searching out opportunities and looked at the job boards for colleges that attracted more employers from cities he was targeting.</p></li>
<li><p>He attended a college with a great reputation and it landed him a few interviews.</p></li>
<li><p>He is an excellent writer and his references supported that.</p></li>
<li><p>He didn’t listen to me insisting that he should go to law school. He thought the market was too awful and he didn’t feel like continuing to bust his butt for an LSAT score etc.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>He worked a year and a half at the first job (industry leading tech company in a great, outdoorsy city) even though the starting salary wasn’t the huge amount he and his classmates thought they deserved and has now been recruited by an even larger competitor and will be moving back to the northeast.</p>
<p>It IS tough, though, and he has many friends who struggled to find jobs.</p>
<p>S2 will be graduating from a 5 year BS/MS program. He worked very hard; the Bachelor’s degree alone in his field takes five years. He also did somewhat related work during high school (using the Auto CAD he learned in tech ed classes) and that helped him get interesting, relevant part-time work during the school year. He had a great internship last summer and over time has managed to save a little nest egg to cover his expenses when he moves to a new city (apartment deposit, etc.) He has a job offer on the left coast (not his first choice), for less than he’d hoped for (but still negotiating that). He’ll have to find a place to live that will allow him to take public transportation to get to work, at least until he can afford a car. I think he’ll be fine. I should add that both his internship and current job offer came from alums of his school.</p>
<p>S1 is in grad school, with a couple years to go. He was at a conference recently and someone from Amherst said they had 900 applicants for one faculty position. That’s a little scary. (Marite, a former poster here, once commented that people were going to have to die for our sons to get tenure track teaching positions.)</p>
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</p>
<p>How are we all defining a job that pays “enough?” It seems pertinent to the conversation to make sure we are on the same page here. By MY definition, if she was able to “scrimp and make it on her own,” that job DID pay enough. I can’t speak for the rest of the new grads here, but when I say I don’t make enough at my job (which was the best I have been able to find and I’ve gladly worked it the last 9 months) I mean that, even with this pay, I CAN’T “make it on my own” no matter how much I scrimp. That’s my definition of “enough.” I get taking whatever job you can find while you keep looking, that’s what I’ve done, but I don’t understand what we’re supposed to do in the meantime— just not pay our bills? The only reason I’m “making it” is because somebody else is paying half my bills, if I weren’t lucky enough to have that I wouldn’t be able to make it on my own at my current salary. There seems to be a disconnect here in what we’re talking about. When I say I am underemployed, I don’t mean, “oh rats, I have to live in a junky apartment in the ghetto and can’t afford to eat out or travel,” I mean I actually don’t make enough money to live off of at all.</p>
<p>
I wonder how they determine “positions that don’t fully use their skills and knowledge”? A lot of college grads don’t graduate with directly applicable and readily discernible ‘skills and knowledge’ for particular jobs but this has always been the case. While it’s easy to see if the computer science grad, EE grad, some science grads, and some other majors are employed in their fields it’s not so readily apparent for grads with degrees in psych, history, women’s studies, classics, philosophy, and a number of other majors who typically would get jobs in a myriad of different areas not directly related to their major but may have a general requirement of a ‘college degree’ (in pretty much anything) but just because their job isn’t directly related to their major doesn’t mean it’s not a reasonable career path. How many history majors really expect to get a job directly related to history, ditto with ethnic studies majors and a number of other ones? I don’t think this aspect is any different today than it was 30 years ago.</p>
<p>
For some people in Manhattan, becoming “enough” means that the person has multiple roommates and possibly shares a bedroom and bathroom. For others, it means commuting a long ways for a while. For others it might mean getting a second job.</p>
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<br>
<p>Long ago I worked in a small consulting firm and the CEO was the main
salesperson. He lived in a nice place, had a membership at the
Longwood Cricket Club and lived a nice life. I connected with him many
years later and I found out that he was a salesperson for my company
and was working out of NYC. He lived in a place (Manhatten I think)
that was essentially a rooming house - lots of other salespeople lived
in tiny rooms in small beds. It was basically a place to sleep and
shower in-between working. I lost touch with him but he eventually
opened his own computer services business and appears to be doing
well today. People do make difficult situations work out - it may not
make for the greatest living but you do what you have to do so that
you have a chance for a better future.</p>
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<br>
<p>The person that you’re using may be able to get you an interview;
I’ve used connections for that. But your son or daughter still has
to have the right skillset and convince the hiring manager.</p>
<p>The best connection is someone that knows your son or daughter well
enough so that he or she can make a recommendation to a hiring manager
or hire outright. Our reputation is at stake when we recommend someone
for a position so we will not recommend unless we know the
person. Yes, we may get a thousand or three for making the
recommendation but our professional reputations are worth orders of
magnitude more.</p>
<p>blossom - good comments on networking.</p>
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<br>
<p>Many of the parents here are on both sides of the fence. We have kids
that have struggled to find work, kids that have found work and, it
appears, kids that have found work with ease.</p>
<p>Ema- I understand not being able to eat or keep a roof over your head at 14K per year if you don’t have family or close friends to crash with until you can raise that salary. But the kids I talk to claim they can’t live on 30 or 32K which is what entry level jobs at a PR firm or doing marketing for a small tech start up or being a financial analyst at a media company pay. (at least in NY. I’m sure the jobs pay less in Dayton Ohio but that reflects a comparable cut in the cost of rent among other things.)</p>
<p>No, you can’t live like Chandler, Monica, or any other TV character who is young and single and living in NY. But that’s a ridiculous standard. If you snag a job in the field you are interested in which pays 30K per year and has health insurance, you will need to live a spartan “young adult” life which is not the life of mojitos in nice bars and cute clothes and big, funky apartments you see on TV. But it’s the life that most of the parents on this board remember from back in the 1970’s and 1980’s when we got our first jobs. Taking the bus and subway. Taxis were for when your employer was paying (which wasn’t very often but occasionally if you worked past midnight your boss would hand you $10 from the petty cash drawer). Entertaining meant inviting your friends over for pasta or chili and going pot luck on the beer. Nobody had a TV. Everyone knew which evenings were free at which museum.</p>
<p>The young kids I know can’t live without a dataplan on their smart phone, they drink $4 coffees from Starbucks (even when unemployed-- i guess Maxwell House is passe) and they want to live in a building with “amenities” i.e a gym, a deck, and a bike room.</p>
<p>So yeah, 30K is not enough for that lifestyle.</p>
<p>I am not unsympathetic to the plight of being a new grad. It is tough getting your foot in the door. But this generation seems stunned that it’s tough; like somehow the job would appear on the screen like some new App by pushing a button.</p>
<p>But it is hard for people of my generation to feel sorry past a certain point. I have candidates for jobs at my company who tell the recruiter who contacts them to set up an interview that they can’t manage an 8 am slot. Or that when asked during an interview, “why are you interested in our XYZ division” actually say, “well my BF just got a job in SF and since your XYZ division has an office in SF it would be really really convenient for us if I worked for you”. or even worse, “My last relationship just ended so I really need to be in NY so I can meet someone”. No thank you. I love young romance and all that, but we run a company, not a speed dating service.</p>
<p>It is hard living on a limited budget. It is hard working crazy hours. It is hard learning to balance a crazy boss and your own desire to actually have a life now that you are out of school. But these things take time-- you won’t have the corner office and the big paycheck and the fun weekends going glamorous places for many years- enjoy the journey.</p>
<p>No ema you are making it. Just like alot of us did - you either have a significant other or are rooming with someone so the rent and bills are cut in half. Many people have more than that in their apartment to start off with - 3 and 4 people sharing an apartment. Should you continue to work hard and look - absolutely - and try not to get discouraged. If you keep looking and networking and meeting people, that how things happen. I don’t know how many times I’ve heard - “I fell into that one”. You just never know where that break will come. So keep pluggin along until you get that break. I think all the parents on here are really rooting for all of you.</p>
<p>20 years ago and after 3 years of working full-time after grad school…I was still renting a room in a house with 3 other people; went out to eat/drink once per week; and did this for several years; all to save $3000 for a downpayment on a HUD home on a salary of $24,000 per year; all the while walking to work barefoot, on hot concrete in Phoenix.</p>
<p>I think it really is a particularly hard time to be coming out of college. The average debt load is higher than before, many companies are “hiring” in ways that don’t allow the employee to have full benefits, certain fields have totally tanked. That’s all true.</p>
<p>However, for the young people, it’s hard to understand that where you are now isn’t where you will always be. There is a perception that college graduation is the culmination, but it’s really not. It may sound horrible, but you will very likely be in a totally different situation five years hence and will then understand about the dues-paying and struggling. Most people have done that and the hungry years can be some of the best of your life if you embrace what you do have and work toward, rather than lament, what you don’t have yet.</p>
<p>And yes, we are rooting for you. But we understand that “this too shall pass” in a way that younger people often haven’t yet learned. So work really hard, make the best of the situation and by all means let us know about the great things that are sure to be very near in your future.</p>
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</p>
<p>We’ve been called lazy and spoiled and entitled all day, that certainly doesn’t feel like being rooted for. My living arrangement is working because my boyfriend continues to pay all the bills he paid before I moved in, it’s not split down the middle because I don’t make enough money for that. I went from my parents supporting me to him supporting me. He was not in the picture when I graduated, and had my parents chosen not to be, I am not sure what I would have done-- it would have been hard to hold down my job with nowhere to go home to. If your definition of “making it” is letting somebody else pay, then I guess you’re right! My definition of “making enough” doesn’t take into account somebody else paying a disproportionate amount of the expenses, as I don’t think I am entitled to that. 
Having a roommate or roommates and having somebody else paying YOUR bills are two entirely different things.</p>
<p>You all must know very entitled young people. I wonder how they got that way? The parents of our generation have clearly failed our kids. I know a few princes and princesses too, but there are simply some jobs that don’t pay “enough” given what that particular person would have to do to take it. It’s fine to suggest the young person look far afield. Certainly, if your Aunt Sally lives a few blocks away from a place of employment and will let you sleep in her attic, then a job there may be feasible. Under other circumstances it may not be “enough,” depending on the wage, number of hours offered, and schedule and what other part-time job can’t be accepted if you take it.</p>
<p>Kids around where I live can commute into NYC. My S did that commute one summer and it was fine. Now, however, he works a job that often requires him to stay until 1, 2, or even 3 AM and start back up again at 8 or 9 AM. Frankly, if that job didn’t pay enough so he could afford to live in NYC somewhat close by and near public transportation that runs frequently even after 11 PM, he wouldn’t be able to do it for very long.</p>
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</p>
<p>First, not everyone who is a current undergrad or recent college grad are as you and others who’ve had similar comments have portrayed. </p>
<p>Secondly, the part about dataplans on smartphones sounds remarkably similar to how snide older generations used to pillory my generation(Gen X) as “slackers” who all “demanded” to have TVs and computers in their college dorms/first apartments back in the '90s when I was in high school/college. :(</p>
<p>The above remark when applied to my generation sounded really weird to my 17 year old college freshman ears considering </p>
<ol>
<li><p>It was already known that one needed access to a computer to gain proficiency at it for future job opportunities…especially considering the systems required far more technical proficiency and were so expensive that access was extremely hard to come by. I was fortunate to have a great-uncle who had a far greater long-term vision on this than most of those backbiting “get off my lawn” older generations and demonstrated it by gifting me a computer with the encouragement to learn as much as I can from it. </p></li>
<li><p>Many…if not most college undergrads I knew didn’t bring TVs to college…including yours truly. In fact, I got into a heated argument with an aunt because she felt having a TV in a dorm was a “necessity” and I strongly disagreed due to lack of need and space issues. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>To summarize…there was a great Socratic/Platonic quote illustrating “get off my lawnism” here:</p>
<p>“What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying.”</p>
<p>Does anyone here know a young adult who is managing to live on 30K in New York – or even in a slightly cheaper location such as Boston or Washington, DC or Silicon Valley?</p>
<p>I know of recent graduates working in all of those places and living on their incomes – but they all make considerably more than 30K. They’re not living fancy lifestyles, either. Frankly, I can’t see how a person could manage on 30K in any of the places I mentioned.</p>
<p>
I know several (many). HOWEVER, they all work second jobs. It is very, very common in NYC for people to work office jobs during the day (often as temps or contract employees) and then tend bar, wait tables or staff events at night.</p>
<p>zoosermom, do you mean that with both jobs combined, they still only earn 30K?</p>
<p>Or are they working the second job in addition to a 30K day job?</p>
<p>Cobrat- I am old and crotchety today. I’d love someone to explain to me the correlation between being an unemployed new college grad, an Android phone, and knowing Excel (which I think is a “must have” computer skill for anyone looking for a job right now.)</p>
<p>It is easy to dismiss my comments as those of a burnt out baby-boomer. I am the first to concede that I am old school. But not every professional job is going to pay 85K for the first year, and if new grads are coming out expecting that their first job will in fact pay 85K they are going to either be unemployed for a very long time, or feeling very sorry for themselves clipping coupons and eating pasta every night.</p>
<p>GFG- my kids were all employed soon after graduation, thank you very much. They never took their parents advice, so it’s not like I got to teach them any great lessons about networking. And frankly, there were a couple of “young folks” apartments which were in very dicey neighborhoods and pretty marginal buildings, and way too many roommates. But that passes quickly. The first raise isn’t for a year-- most of it goes to taxes. But then the second raise comes with the next promotion, and then another, and then someone asks if you’re interested in grad school and if so, would you like information on the tuition assistance program… and you’re off to the races.</p>
<p>Sorry to sound unsympathetic. Living on a budget stinks- just ask any of us parents who have been paying tuition.</p>