<p>For such a small difference I would choose UChicago in a heartbeat. The opportunities - regardless of major - are not comparable. Attending UChicago will open doors you don’t even know exist. It’ll be mind-expanding/world-expanding in ways that are hard to imagine for you and your parents. It’s not just a matter of prestige. Your parents may be afraid to let you go to UChicago but going there won’t change you - it’ll make Not all universities are the same. Attending UChicago will change your life in a way UArkansas can’t and won’t. The networking possibilities alone, the resources, what you’ll gain access to in terms of grants and support for grant-writing, just aren’t there at UArkansas.
Tell your parents it’ll help you earn more money after you graduate (it will. If only in terms of grants/fellowships at grad school. The difference in quality or experience may not mean enough for your parents, but perhaps your ability to make a better living might? I’m guessing you can’t use “bragging rights”… some parents would “kill” to be able to tell everyone their kid got into UChicago. :p)
Additionally, UChicago includes high estimates for COA for some scholarship students, so that they actually have pocket money from their financial aid.
Won’t your parents pay <em>anything</em>?
You said “living expenses”: does it mean they’d pay the college for room&board?</p>
<p>OP, can you please list your total aid package and also the COA figures? Also I don’t understand why your parents aren’t contribution to your college and you just say ‘I don’t’ know why". Do you not talk? At the least they will not be paying for your food and other bills should be lower.</p>
<p>You have a chance to go to one of the best universities in the country, the world even. Don’t they under stand that? I agree with MYOS that you likely have no idea of the opportunities you will get and the benefit of such an education. A life changing experience, imo. But the academics will be hard. You will also likely get paid research gigs and trips too. I knew of an undergraduate there that got to go on digs with one of the renown paleontologists in the grad school.</p>
<p>Not that I love U.S. News rankings but for a ball park it is okay</p>
<p>Chicago #5
Univ Ark - Fayetteville #128</p>
<p><a href=“The University of Chicago | World University Rankings | THE”>http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2012-13/world-ranking/institution/university-of-chicago</a></p>
<p>“Among the academic cream of American universities – Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, and the University of Chicago – it is UChicago that can most convincingly claim to provide the most rigorous, intense learning experience.”
<a href=“http://www.uniintheusa.com/usa-unis/midwest/100048/university-of-chicago”>http://www.uniintheusa.com/usa-unis/midwest/100048/university-of-chicago</a></p>
<p>I have the Chicago Bill in front of me. For all intensive purpose the $13,930/yr net price is telling me that Chicago pays for tuition and the students pays R&B + books. That is a package my DD is dreamed of. At the school, you can work part time to make up that $14K/ year difference. DD had worked in the coffee shop, labs and others they all can close the gap. I can’t imagine the difficulty to make a decision like that.</p>
<p>Yes it would be interesting to find out why this isn’t a nobrainer for the OP. I guess the parent preference for Ark? Maybe they don’t understand what Chicago is all about and just think it is another state U?</p>
<p>OP at Chi, student faculty ratio is 6:1, 77% of classes have less than 20 people, only 6% have 50 or more, 17% have 20 to 49.</p>
<p>Fayetteville student faculty ratio is 19:1, 35% of classes have less than 20 people, 17% have 50 or more, 47% have 20 to 49 (not bad at all for a public.)</p>
<p>Uark has very solid academics and will not keep you from getting into grad school. Academics aside, they are completely different environments. Where would you prefer to spend the next 4 years? Where do you feel like you would fit and be happier and enjoy your college experience?</p>
<p>I guess my parents sort of got into my head about all of this, haha. They keep talking about how the school doesn’t really matter too much to employers, how Arkansas’ honors classes are really good, how getting out with as little debt as possible is usually best, etc. They’re not really convinced that going to Chicago instead of Arkansas would have any sort of substantial effect on my future success, even though I’ve shown them a lot of information stating otherwise. (A way to convince them would be great, actually; anybody have any ideas? 
I’m going to tell them what you all have said so far in this thread, it might do something!) Arkansas being only an hour away as opposed to a day of driving away is a plus for them too. </p>
<p>@artloversplus I’ve actually thought about that community college v. Harvard thing a lot and have made the comparison before to them! They just say that the Arkansas honors college is good and that one can find a good job and be happy coming out of there. That is true, I guess, Arkansas and Chicago isn’t really as big of a difference as community college and Harvard, but still pretty substantial.</p>
<p>@MYOS1634 and @BrownParent Self-dependence is sort of a big thing for them, my mom talks about how nobody ever paid for any of her college. They said that they’re going to have to use everything they get to play catch-up with their retirement so my brother and I won’t have to take care of them when they’re older. It’s not as if they’re completely cutting me off, though; they said that they would contribute to some personal expenses and would continue paying for the medical, dental, etc. stuff that they pay for already.</p>
<p>@megame18 That is one thing that I’m questioning. I really think that I’ll like the environment at Chicago, with the focus on academics and the variety of opportunities. The distance and the amount of work just scare me a little, haha. I am very familiar with Arkansas, being so close to it and having cousins and friends currently attending, but I think trying something different would be exciting. I know that it’d be difficult at times, but I’m hoping that it would be an overall amazing experience.</p>
<p>Also, another pro for Arkansas that I didn’t add before is that the money I’m getting from them is all merit-based and won’t change based on my parents’ future income. My mom is about to graduate from college (after dropping out the first, not paid for time) and will most likely be making more than she does now. She says that she still won’t pay, which would probably be a problem when the EFC for Chicago goes up.</p>
<p>Here’s my aid package and COA figures: <a href=“http://i.imgur.com/ghgEmcV.png”>http://i.imgur.com/ghgEmcV.png</a></p>
<p>EDIT: Whoop, CC blocked that image host I guess, maybe <a href=“http://oi60.■■■■■■■.com/zyhoix.jpg”>http://oi60.■■■■■■■.com/zyhoix.jpg</a> will work.</p>
<p>I’ve also listed them below, if the formatting doesn’t mess up:</p>
<p>Costs: Amount
Tuition 47,139
Student Life Fee 1,114
1st Year Orientation Fee 1,128
Room and Board 14,205
*Books and Supplies 1,800
*Personal Expenses 2,177
*Travel Allowance 300
TOTAL 67,863
Family Contribution: Amount
Parent Contribution 9,900
Student Contribution 2,280
Total 12,180</p>
<p>We have calculated your financial need (Costs less Family Contribution) as:
NEED 55,683
We offer you the following financial aid awards for the 2014-15 academic year:</p>
<p>Source: Autumn Winter Spring Total
University of Chicago Grant 16,661 16,661 16,661 49,983
Odyssey Scholarship 584 583 583 1,750
Student Employment 734 733 733 2,200
Subsidized Stafford Loan Elig 444 444 444 1,332
Unsubsidized Stafford Loan 1,390 1,389 1,389 4,168</p>
<hr>
<p>Total Awards: 19,813 19,810 19,810 59,433</p>
<p>
67863 = cost of attendance
-49983 = grant</p>
<h2>- 1750 = scholarship</h2>
<p>16130 = net price
- 5500 = federal direct Stafford loan</p>
<h2>- 2200 = work earnings</h2>
<p>8430 = what you need to find
</p>
<p>The $8,430 would have to come from parents, additional work earnings, loans that need a co-signer, or frugalization on the non-billed costs in the cost of attendance (books, personal, and travel, which total $4,277) or room and board (which is $14,205).</p>
<p>This is a no brainier. Choose Chicago. </p>
<p>They actually provide you with MORE than need!
You can ask for them to increase your work study to 3,000 (that adds up to 10 hours a week, which is doable). That would leave you with only about $7,500.
Email UChicago: are the Student Life Fee and 1st Year Orientation Fee mandatory? (Explain you are trying to find enough money to come but you’re having trouble because your parents don’t see why UChicago is better than Arkansas and you’re trying to see where you can cut costs in order to be able to attend.)
That would cut down $2,000 if they’re not mandatory. Then you can live frugally and try not to spend $2,000 on personal expenses (keep in mind that you’ve got all your can eat in R&B: that money, that’s pocket money for pizza, new socks, movies outside those shown free on campus, magazines outside those offered for free in the library, going out, toothpaste…you’ll have to live frugally but I think you can cut that down by $800-1,000).
You’re down to $4,500 missing. Your parents have said they’d contribute basic money - books and expenses?, so, probably $4,000? Check with them. That leaves $500 for you to find. Now, if you don’t want to depend on your parents’ whims, you could start working RIGHT NOW and get as much money set aside as possible - especially if the “first year” fees are mandatory (although they aren’t likely to be next year).
But overall it should be doable.</p>
<p>When your mother, Brownparent, and myself were attending college, it cost about $18,000 for a “pricey” private. I have older friends who went to public university for $300 a year. Debt wasn’t a given at all. It was possible to pay for college on your own, through work and a grant. Nowadays, the costs of college have skyrocketed to a point where it’s impossible for a student to self fund. Today, one must have a college degree in order to be self-reliant, when in my and your mother’s time self reliance started when you went to college. That’s not possible anymore, students have to rely on their parents for college. We’re not even in the situation that was common in the early 2000’s, when just a handful of colleges cost more than 40K. Nowadays, top students such as you get 59k in scholarship and the parents STILL have to contribute. But seriously 7,500 a year for UChicago… it’s unthinkable you’d pass this up. It’d be heartbreaking.
See how much your parents are willing to contribute. See if they’d even be willing to contribute their parental contribution (or a portion thereof) as a loan without interest to you, that you’ll reimburse once you’ve landed a good job after college.
It’s not because Arkansas isn’t “good enough” or whatever… but the experience of attending an elite* university that is super well-funded and connected just isn’t comparable even to an honors public college, no matter how good your parents think UArkansas’ honors college is. It’ll open doors for you that UArkansas simply can’t.
- They may object to the concept of “elite”, but they must understand that it’s aspirational: you’ll move through life quicker, you’ll make lasting connections with powerful people or future movers and shakers, and that’ll protect you better than a UArkansas degree, especially in an economic downturn or if you need to find a job where jobs are and that happens to be outside Arkansas. UChicago is one of the best universities in the country, everyone who hires has heard of it and knows how good it is, all law schools, med schools, graduate schools hold it in high respect. Of course, that assumes you’ll be working hard and getting good grades - if you have a 2.4 GPA a UChicago degree won’t help you much.
Trust your abilities and drive and work ethics. Ask your parents to invest in your future and in your possibilities; don’t they know you’re a strong student and that you’ll deliver? In short, take a chance on yourself and show what you’re capable of.</p>
<p>I love Chicago - Have a very close friend on the faculty there and believe it to be the obvious choice as mentioned above, but also keep in mind that you are talking about two VERY different colleges and experiences. I’d be wary of running to Chicago if it is solely for academics and you aren’t convinced you will like the atmosphere and life there as well. </p>
<p>You can’t scrimp on travel as that is minimal already. You will probably need a little more. You can buy used books or rent them. You can save on personal expenses. You won’t have that steep orientation fee in future years. You can move off-campus to cheaper apartment in future years if it seems feasible, someone upstream indicated students do. My daughter did all these things to make her special college do-able. I really don’t know what to say about your moms job, she doesn’t have one yet–that’s another wrinkle.</p>
<p>Your parents are right in some ways that certain employers will not care about your geology major for instance. But that’s just looking at college like job training and it can be so much more than that for your personal growth and even your level of aspirations. If you want to work in research or policy you could benefit from the Chicago education, even if you get your grad degree elsewhere. Also you aren’t going to grad school but still
<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/earth-sciences-rankings/page+5”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/earth-sciences-rankings/page+5</a>
Chicago# 20
UAR #117</p>
<p>I wouldn’t be so pushy if the money is not so close. I agree not too much debt, but this is a very small marginal amount for what I see as a huge benefit. Chicago students can get very well paying internships if you wanted to pay that down and were willing to go for a different sort of job. I wouldn’t decide on it just because it is easier for your parents to drive. Take a damn bus.</p>
<p>Do your folks understand what a world class U Chicago is? It isn’t a Harvard vs community college choice, that isn’t fair to UArk, but Chicago is such a special place…do they understand that?</p>
<p>I have to ask you, though, if you are ready for the big change from the NW Ark area to Chicago. Long, cold winters? Gritty urban? Intellectually intense? No football? (Not that the Hogs have been that good the last few years…) It will be a completely different experience for you. It may be one you are ready to embrace, it may be you are not certain yourself what you think. And if you choose Chicago, will you be ready to scrimp and save? Or are you used to living a more financially carefree life? </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I don’t think there is much disagreement that Chicago is an attractive choice at the relatively small price difference. The problem is that the relatively small price difference just happens to be enough to make it a somewhat difficult problem for the OP to afford to attend, so useful responses would be along the lines of helping the OP find ways of covering the amount of money that s/he needs to find (since the parents cannot or will not contribute the expected family contribution amount).</p>
<p>To the OP: you may want to post on the Chicago section about your situation and ask about ways to cover the $8,430 through frugal living, increased work, etc… Local knowledge of the school and how students actually spend relative to its stated budget are likely to be helpful to you in this situation.</p>
<p>Thank you again, everyone, all of your help has been really awesome! </p>
<p>@MYOS1634 those are some great ideas! I will ask about the fees. Lining out everything is really helpful, I think I may be able to make all of that work! I’m not sure how much exactly my parents will contribute, it might be a bit less than $4,000, but I’ll check. And thank you for the inspiring words! I’ll bring up that increasing cost of college thing too.</p>
<p>@stanatedj Yeah, that’s what I’ve read. I think I can handle the sometimes quirkiness of the students at Chicago; I’m not incredibly quirky, but I’m friends with a lot of quirky people, haha. I’ve heard that there’s a large variety of people, so I think I could find some less quirky people too. I’m pretty okay with the shortage of sports, a party scene, and stuff like that; I’ve never really been too into that stuff anyway. And I’d be able to root on teams from the city of Chicago if I’m ever in a sporting mood! The amount of work is really one of the things I’m most worried about. I mean, I’ve pulled all-nighters before, but people talk about Chicago like most of your days are spent studying. I’ve been lucky to never have to really study for tests that much, so that would probably be one of the biggest adjustments other than the obvious: moving from a small, south-midwestern town to the great city of Chicago. Winters would most likely be pretty difficult, haha. My home is in a rural area, so far out that we can’t even get cable, and going from that to living in a dorm in a college in a huge city would probably be one of the biggest adjustments of my life. I’m open to trying new things, though. Just a little scared, too.</p>
<p>@BrownParent Thank you for your perspective! I think just being as frugal as possible will probably be my life for the coming years, haha. My parents do sort of have the view of college just being job training, but I think that might be because of their background. I’ve already said before that my mom didn’t complete college the first time, and going as an adult is a very different experience. My dad never went. I think that going to a vastly different place like Chicago would enable me to experience much more new and exciting things than just going to Arkansas, not counting the value of the education. Of course, Arkansas seems comforting and familiar, but I want my life to be filled with a variety of experiences</p>
<p>@Lizardly I think so. I hope so. There’s a lot that I don’t want to leave behind. I’m not really ready to leave all of it behind. None of my friends are going to a school in the city, the closest would be about an hour away. But I’m going to have to move on eventually, and jumping in is often the most painless way to go. I’d have plenty of distractions in Chicago, whether it’s with homework or the general business of the area. I really enjoy visiting cities, and had always dreamed of living in one as a child. My friends that will be studying in St. Louis would only be a train ride away, and my hometown a drive from there, so I would have some connection to my old life. I was thinking that I would maybe be able to stay at home during the summer, but if I get a summer job in Chicago that wouldn’t exactly be possible.</p>
<p>@ucbalumnus That’s a good idea, I will do that. They could probably give some of those specific details, yeah. You have all been really helpful, though, I really appreciate it! Many of my worries have been assuaged. I’m sold on the cost v. benefit, now I just need to figure out if I want to go out and do something new, or just stick with what I know.</p>
<p>With FB and all it is easy to keep up with people and you will see them holidays. You never leave old friends behind if they are friends for life. But it is a nice plus to have a friend relatively close to visit. Even if you get an internship it will still allow for a couple weeks before or after, or both. </p>
<p>From what you are saying, it doesn’t really seem like your parents have the experience of knowing people who went to schools like Chicago and knowing what kind of employment opportunities those people have so it is kind of funny, their perspective. And your mom saying no one paid for her college so that’s why she’s not paying for yours? Tell her my dad beats my mom cause his dad did. Well it didn’t work out for her very well, did it? wouldn’t it have been nice if she got to go to college when she was starting out then have to go back at her age? Tell her she can get a free Masters from the state when she is 60, my mother did at UALR. Also it used to be a lot easier for people to work their way through colleges, but prices have multiplied compared to wages. Sorry to rag on your parents but it is a head shaker. Also I have lived briefly in Ark, so, ummm. I visited Chicago with my daughter to tour and we had a really good time on our long weekend. Did your parents go with you?</p>
<p>It does sound like you will have a rude awakening at Chicago if you don’t have to study for tests now. It is a different game going to school with all A students. I hope you find you have some study habits ready for college. But many will be in the same boat. Even my daughter who went to a rigorous prep school studied all the time there, so a jump to a top college wasn’t such a bad readjustment but still some bumps in the road, possibly from overscheduling at first.</p>
<p>Anyway it isn’t like some kids here who are looking at $20 to $40k differences in similar choice to yours. So it’s not like you are looking at a foolhardy amount of debt like that. Go to the Chicago forum as UCB alumnus says. And be sure to let everyone know how it works out for you.</p>
<p>Hello everyone! Sorry for not responding about this sooner, I did end up choosing Chicago! I decided, yeah, it’s a risk, but what’s life without risks, right? It’ll be a change, but experiencing everything there is is what I want to do with my life. Hopefully things work out, but if not, oh well! Thank you to all of you for all of the support and help that you’ve given me, I really appreciate it!</p>
<p>Congratulations, and good luck to you!</p>
<p>No guts no glory! Best of luck to you. </p>
<p>Congratulations and thanks for the update! :)</p>