So I got my scores today and honestly…if it was 165V/170Q/4.5AWA I’d have been jumping for joy. I have never done well on timed essays (SAT included, although it didn’t seem to be a problem with the grammar–got 770/800 total), probably because I refine my logic by revising many times AFTER I’ve written anything… which isn’t the best way to write, but I’ve never been talented at coming up with good arguments on the fly.
I’m applying to engineering schools for a Ph.D., and likely going for the very top. No publications, but extensive research experience + government-funded research awards at arguably the best university in my country (English is the official language–I’m bilingual). Any advice on whether or not I should shell out an extra $200 to retake would be greatly appreciated (as would any reassurance and other comments). Thank you!
You probably should retake it. You’d be safer with a 5.0 AWA. Although 165V is pretty good for engineering, to truly grab the attention of the admission folks you would want a 168 or 169, or even 170.
$200 is nothing compared to your future. It could just mean the difference between getting into the school you want or not. But even if you don’t take it, you score is still decent.
But the problem with the GRE is that it’s such an easy test, and that doing well is taken for granted. For a top program, you would want to prove yourself in other ways.
I did get 170/170 on both verbal and math, it’s just that I got a 4 on AWA. The main problem is that I don’t know if it’s something that would improve with a month of sporadic studying (since I’m also taking a full course load), unless I’m fortunate enough to get a topic I’ve prepared for :-S
So let’s be clear, you have 170 in both verbal and quantitative, English is not the official language in your country and you want to take it again? What am I missing here? What earthly purpose would it serve to take the exam again? Or perhaps I misunderstood the title and your first line and your scores are not 170V 170Q and 4.0AWA?
Anyway, for engineering a 170 in the quantitative will get you past the automatic cuts in just about any program if your GPA is good so there is no need to take it again because the GRE is not what gets you admitted. I don’t know what you mean by going for the “top” because you have not identified what you consider the top for engineering programs. However, I suspect that your version of top is not how I would define it.
You need to choose the graduate programs you apply to by finding the ones that have faculty who publish in the fields you are interested in. Schools that have that top 20 reputation for undergraduate may not be the best for graduate school in engineering. Follow the research productivity.
From what I heard, the GRE is the least important thing. But I did hear that admission folks look favorably on people with 170 on Q. According to Georgia Tech, their average Q is 167 and “it’ll help your application if you score above this.”
Many people think as long as you score above 165, it’s no different from a 168 or 170. That’s not true. As much as the GRE math is a joke, you do need to know it cold in order to do it accurately and fast, and there is always one or two “hard” questions on there that might throw people off, and this is the type of questions that separates the 170s from the 168. So someone who gets a 170 will be noticed, but the benefit might be small. 2% of all test takers and 6% of engineering majors get 170.
As for the verbal, the consensus is that engineering programs don’t care about it. But I’ve also heard a high verbal score is not completely worthless. Some professors see it as a sign of creativity, or being “well read.”
But overall, the GRE is probably the least important part of the application.
Nope not as a joke–mainly because I have dual citizenship, and I learned English first but it’s not the official language of one of my countries. So my application would have a foreign language in the ‘language of instruction’ section of everything aside from college education, but my ‘native’ language is actually English…and a 170 Verbal + a 4.0 writing might make me look like a vocabulary-memorizing robot who’s trying to come off as being a native English speaker.
I’ve chosen graduate programs that I think reflect my research interests, including UMich, MIT, and Austin (a few still undecided), and may be applying to some outside of my engineering major, because you’re definitely right–I do not want to be stuck in a school without fields I’m interested in! Thanks for the advice from both!
Also, just remembered: if I’m sticking with these results, should the comparatively weak writing score be addressed in the SOP? I’d appreciate any advice–thank you!
I meant fields of research within your major. Itis not trivial to change departments in graduate school. Unlike undergraduates, changing majors requires an entire new application since the faculty make admission decisions.
You will only let them question your writing if you include unnecessary and negative things like “addressing my writing score” in your SOP. First of all, your writing score is not weak for engineering, and GRE is the least important. You are better off worrying about your GPA, research, LORs, etc…
Thanks again for the help and reassurance! Yes, I’m aware that changing majors during graduate school requires an entirely new application, so I’m extra careful with those–I need to have a marked interest in several labs to justify applying outside of my undergrad major.
I’ve tentatively decided to first proceed with my application, since I’d rather have decent SOPs, LORs, and GPA instead of having to rush through them at the end (which I’m liable to do if I have another GRE hanging over me) and retake only if I can afford to do so at the very end.
Don’t retake it. Don’t do it even if you can afford it. Even if you have a pile of money sitting by your side, don’t retake it. The analytical writing section is the least important part of the least important part of your application. A 4.0 is not going to make the difference between admissions and not; many programs completely ignore that section altogether.
You are way overthinking this. You have to write a statement of purpose; put your writing skills into that, and people will be able to tell you can write.
That is absolutely the best way to write. The GRE teaches the worst way to write - which is to come up with an argument on the fly, dash it off in 20 minutes and do a quick 5 minutes of proofreading at the end. Actual writing, and academic writing especially, is nothing like that.
Hi juillet, thanks so much for the reassurance and advice–it means a lot! I enjoy writing when I have time to edit, and even though I knew the GRE might be as far as you could get from academic writing, the results were still an unpleasant surprise. I’ll focus on the statement of purpose; it’ll be a much better testament to my writing skills!
Is there an automatic cut off for general GRE? What are the automatic cuts for math grad programs? Is 167V 161Q too low for a math major? Math subject test score was 880.
There’s no hard and fast answer, @Iglooo. It depends on the program. Some programs have automatic cut offs and some don’t, and the ones that do have different levels.
I would say that a 161Q is pretty low for a math PhD program, though.