2008 US News Rankings

College Search & Selection
421

<p>Wisconsin Provost has no major problems with USNews and feels they reflect reality as he saw it.
They had a tough year and lost some good people. They'll bounce back. The loss of .1 in PA cost them some spots but it was probably a fair number for this year. The hardest part is getting that .1 back. People tend to remember bad news longer and it gets much more play than good news.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.news.wisc.edu/14002%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.news.wisc.edu/14002&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>And I already showed how Tufts lacks the horses on the faculty. They are way down in faculty stars.</p>

422

<p>I have been trying to find how I can purchase the 2008 top biomedical engineering school list from the USNEWS website. Can anyone post a link on where I can go to purchase that? Thanks.</p>

423

<p>Bigred: Thanks. Your post was very enlightening. Wash U is doing a great job, and if it merits it, as you believe, then it will get a bump up in PA...Which as I said before, would indeed be very impressive.</p>

<p>Midatlmom: We got soooo much mail from Wash U, including letters with information about available merit money based on SAT scores. There was a lot of buzz amongst parents and students about the seeming largesse of the school. Consequently, several kids applied who would not have. The location is not so appealing to many NY kids, it seems, and travel at a reasonable fare, is not easy, either. Another school that did the same thing was U Miami, which I think is also doing its utmost to increase it rank by amassing apps, among other approaches, I am sure. USC did a similar kind of campaign, but Wash U was, by far, the most aggressive.</p>

424

<p>And Midmom...Please understand...I know that Wash U is great school. What I said was relevant only to my discussion about the validity and effects of PA on rank.</p>

425

<p>Small changes can mean big drops in ranking. From the WSJ</p>

<p>At least two colleges corrected their alumni-giving rates for this year's U.S. News & World Report rankings -- and their standing suffered as a result.</p>

<p>The statistic, calculated by each school and then submitted to U.S. News, measures the percentage of alumni who donate to their alma mater each year. Some schools have used unapproved methods to calculate the number, which is often touted as a measure of alumni loyalty...</p>

<p>In correcting its calculation this year, Albion College's alumni-giving rate reported to U.S. News fell to 36% from 50%. That helped send its overall ranking among liberal-arts schools down 25 places, to 116th from 91st, an unusual drop on the typically stable list.</p>

<p>Hollins University reported a 42% alumni-giving rate, down from 47% a year earlier. The correction took the Roanoke, Va., liberal-arts school out of the top 100, to 104th from 97th...</p>

<p>...some colleges try to improve the statistics that comprise their U.S. News ranking, sometimes in unsanctioned ways. In the 1990s, many colleges were caught improperly inflating their students' SAT scores....</p>

<p>Albion, of Albion, Mich., used to count one-time gifts by graduating seniors as several gifts over many years, even if the graduate stopped giving. That violated the standards of both U.S. News and the Council for Advancement and Support of Education, which tracks donations to higher education...</p>

<p>Jeff Hodges, a spokesman for Hollins, said the school's incorrect alumni-giving rate last year was "unintentional" and the result of "some sort of misinterpretation of how the form from U.S. News should have been filled out."</p>

<p>The alumni-giving rate accounts for just 5% of the U.S. News rankings, but since most schools' statistics don't change much from year to year, a dramatic rise or fall can significantly affect a ranking.</p>

<p>"Our feeling is that the definition and the rules are pretty clear," Brian Kelly, the editor of U.S. News, said yesterday. "At the moment we're taking it on trust that schools are being honest in filling out our survey."</p>

426

<p>I'm beginning to think that the USNWR ranks might be somewhat helpful to collegebound high school students-- aside from the top 20 university and LAC rankings which we can quibble about endlessly, it's the most compact and user-friendly college guide I know of, not particularly for choosing Penn over MIT or Dartmouth over Brown, but rather for identifying solid reach, match, and safety schools. Used in conjunction with Fiske or another college enycylopedia, the list can come in quite handy, especially when it comes to considering schools in the 20-50 range and the 50-100 range.</p>

427

<p>
[quote]
To my mind, it is not right for students and parents to be determining how well a school fares academically, based on that school's efforts to boost its standing by campaigning for applications. And no matter what you say, this is exactly how Wash U goes about improving its lot in the stats. In fact, many students are bombarded with glossy literature, and yes, implied promises of extensive merit aid, thereby, enticed to apply.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is riduculous. Do you expect colleges just to accept their ranking and just live with it? I see absolutely nothing wrong with what WashU is doing. After all, what do you think this business of rejecting 90 percent of all applicants is all about at the Ivies? Do you believe that all of them are (<em>nobly</em> <em>english accent</em>) equally qualified for such an education? I certainly don't. The Ivies greatly benefit from their long since established hype. Many apply to Harvard, since, well, it's Harvard. What is wrong with schools aiming to create their own "Harvard" reputation? Especially since WashU is undoubtedly deserving of such a reputation.</p>

428

<p>^^^ how true. And yet WashU is not allowed to toot its own horn precisely because other people think it's not prestigious enough to do so.</p>

429

<p>"Can someone explain to me how Dartmouth managed to fall out of the top 10? Just because it puts an emphasis on undergraduate education as opposed to graduate research (like Harvard) makes it a subpar school?"</p>

<p>LMAO. - Dartmouth was tied with Columbia and UChicago for 9th, and is now one point behind them. If 11th is subpar, I'm gonna have a hell of a time trying to get a good college education!! :(</p>

<p>I'm currently supposed to write a current events synopsis on education, and I decided to talk about college rankings. Thanks to the informative posters - the PA is going to be the biggest part of my argument against.
But ultimately I don't mind rankings, but it's just like the gun debate.</p>

<p>Rankings are OK when used responsibly (as are guns), but when they get in the wrong hands, bad things happen (see above quote - a real post on pg 26 of this thread).</p>

430

<p>i love how penn is over MIT.</p>

<p>i'm sad that yale < harvard :(</p>

<p>i'm also sad that columbia is still #9</p>

431

<p>Since I haven't formally added my opinion yet:</p>

<p>I think rankings are just dandy when looked at realistically. An 89 is no different than 94. Look at categories that matter to you. If you are going to major in theater, do you care how much money the school gets for research? No, but endowment is important. SAT scores let you know if you're dealing with high-vocab kids and math wizzes...</p>

<p>I honestly think there is barely a difference in the top 1-10 and a mild difference between 1-19 (Harvard to Vanderbilt) when it comes to your education. Your might meet more incredible people at Harvard, but how much more amazing can their ECON101 class really be?</p>

<p>After 19 it gets iffy because public schools start to become about every other school listed. But if you're ok with a large setting, Berkeley can be your Harvard. In fact, Berkeley is more famous than just about any school ranked above it except for a few.</p>

432

<p>Good analogy, padfoot. It's one thing to get caught up in the horse-race debate as a sort of my team's-better-than-your-team exercise for the hell of it. But it's another when people start believing that these distinctions are meaningful and that these minor differences really matter (as seen by the "subpar" comment.)</p>

<p>And unalove is absolutely right that the usnwr rankings have a useful purpose in steering people toward colleges at various RANGES of quality and reputation so that a list of reach-match-and safeties can be devised. And CC serves a great purpose when it can introduce members, especially the lurkers who don't come on and ask questions, to all the range of possibilities that exist in programs offerred by colleges at all levels --- not just the renowned programs of a handful of colleges.</p>

433

<p>Damn we were so close. Well better luck for us next yr.</p>

434

<p>LoLs, it's USC... <em>rolls eyes</em>
Haha, jk.
I was very close to choosing USC over UCLA.
But ended up choosing neither. ;)</p>

435

<p>Why on earth are West Point and Annapolis in the Liberal Arts Colleges category? They used to be unranked which my academy grad H felt was much more appropriate. And if USNA and USMA are included, why isn't Air Force in there as well? The 3 schools have very similar curriculums and missions.</p>

436

<p>Can anyone explain the SAT percentile data in 2008 US News Rankings?</p>

<p>I have noticed the following changes in SAT percentile:</p>

<ol>
<li> For most top universities, except Harvard, Princeton and Yale, the SAT 75th percentile has shifted 10-20 points lower than 2007</li>
<li> Even for HPY the SAT 25th percentile has shifted 10 points lower.</li>
<li> For all top LAS, the 25th percentile and 75th percentile have shifted 10-20 points lower than 2007</li>
</ol>

<p>I don’t believe the average sat scores drop 10-20 points in general student population. Anyone with statistics background has any explanations?</p>

437

<p>On the first page of the thread University of Pennsylvania is listed as 6th by the first poster. It is however ranked 5th</p>

438

<p>Possibly because colleges are becoming less 'test-score focused'.. let's see how much the universities below the top 20 increased in SAT averages first though.</p>

<p>Comment: JHU is the biggest winner here by far.</p>

439

<p>It's curiuos that the schools with the best PAs appear to be generally in the Northeast. Since the distance bewteen these schools is notthat far, does it mean that they know those schools better? Maybe USNWR could use some sort of weighted PA. For example, take the average PA from each region, then averaging them equally amongst the other regions. In the south for example, after W&L and Davdison, everybody else in ranked 40+. Look at the top LAC's and the majoirty of them are in the NE. It would be interesting to see a PA rating by region and school. Objective: to see if schools within the same region score each other higher compared to schools outside the region. For you data savy folks in the educationalal world that want to be published this would make a great thesis.</p>

<p>Also, if interest take a look at another opinion from a U President: <a href="http://www.thestate.com/editorial-columns/story/149518.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.thestate.com/editorial-columns/story/149518.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Quote: The weaknesses of the magazine’s rankings formula are well-documented. Kevin Carey, the author of a 22-page report commissioned by Education Sector, a nonprofit think tank, concludes that 95 percent of the U.S. News variables focus on just three factors: “fame, wealth, and exclusivity.” Year in and year out, the highest-ranked colleges boast the largest endowments, charge the highest tuition and admit the fewest students.</p>

440

<p>wzzz:</p>

<p>I have a stats background of sorts, but I don't think I can explain this without more data. It's possible, as coola says, that some schools have just become less focused on SAT scores. It's possible that the way US News wants the scores calculated has changed. I wouldn't know. It's possible that, as admissions rates at the most elite colleges have dropped, that more high-SAT scorers have decided to apply elsewhere.</p>

<p>Who knows?</p>