<p>this isn't a good sign that the applications only went up 3%, especially with the common application being used for the first time. I expect a big drop in the yield.</p>
<p>well, while i acknowledge that a 24% acceptance rate, or whatever it was - it was close to that, seems to have gone down, the article does say this was the most competitive class to apply. whether this is standard talk among admissions offices, i don't know. however, even if the yield rate is lower (and i don't think it will be by much), they have accepted 300 extra students.</p>
<p>the question on what the yield will be this year for ND is not just for ND, but for most of the private elite colleges , with the exception of HYPSM, with their very generous aid.</p>
<p>I was struck by the comment from the ND admission officer, Mundy, that decisions to go to ND were going to be decided at the last minute.....consumer psychology tells us the longer a person needs to make a decision, the more it will be negative (and also more buyer's remorse when a person decides to buy). So all the indicators are there for a significant drop in yield, they accepted more students. the % of more applicants was only 3% (even with the common app), they accepted more kids EA. This was not a good year for ND's admission cycle. </p>
<p>So I think parents are watching the stock market and financial news , reading that 30% of graduating ND seniors don't have jobs (as quoted in ND Magazine this week....but this number is probably the same or worse with all of the private and public schools). If we see further financial shocks, like GM filing for bankruptcy, will lead parents to push for the in state public "safe" choice. </p>
<p>ND's business model is that parents will need to take on debt and that kids's will need to take on about $20K in debt....and with consumer borrowing already being down substantially, will parents and kids really borrow to pay a $120K 4 year difference?
Kids can always transfer in next year, ND's acceptance rate is 38% for transfers.</p>
<p>I just hope this gets ND to understand that typically college costs have gone up 435% versus 95% for CPI since 1982, so this is not sustainable.</p>
<p>well the good news is that for people entering college now, by the time we graduate, the economy should be back on track, providing plenty of jobs... however, it is tough for those who graduate this year (30% seems like a very high number - surprising).</p>
<p>So is this good news or bad news for people on the waiting list? In the letter, it said they anticipate that 700 people will agree to stay on the waitlist.</p>
<p>the fact that they accepted 300 extra students is bad news. </p>
<p>there is no question the yield is going to be lower, but those 300 students are basically ahead of those on the waitlist. Plus with 700 students on the waitlist, that is large number. </p>
<p>it appears the admission staff used these 300 as a reserve and try to predict the lower yield. I am not sure how many were taken off the waitlist last year, but i would think it would be at most the same or less.</p>
<p>ahh hawkswim09 dont tell me that!!!
im trying really hard to get off the waitlist now!
im just finishing my letter and i talked to my regional officer. ND is really my top choice :(</p>
<p>How many do you think they will take off? 50? 100?</p>
<p>after looking back on my post, it does have a negative undertone. I will try to clarify a little better. </p>
<p>With the terrible economy, the admissions office had to accept more students. However, their yield will go down because of the economy so that means that they will probably get out of their acceptances the same number that they did last year. This means that they will go to the waitlist to fulfill the rest of the openings. I would expect that the same number get off the waitlist as last year, but I do not know the number. However, it is important to get yourself to the top of the waitlist, which it sounds like catalina21 has already started to do. </p>
<p>I am sure if you search ND’s website you may be able to find the number off the waitlist last year.</p>
<p>i recall that an admissions officer told me last fall that they expected 17,000+ applications becasue of ND going to the common application, but ND’s barely went up.</p>
<p>Any word on the yield? , it seems they are taking a lot off the waitlist.</p>
<p>MiPerson</p>
<p>Not sure what data you are referencing that they are taking alot off of Wait List…yes, there are some posts within the ND thread of accepts off WL, but hard to translate that into a total number of what they are taking off the WL.</p>
<p>While there have been probably 10+ people on this website, no one can use this to predict anything about total wait list. </p>
<p>additionally, it appears that the waitlist has gone cold with only maybe one to two waves.</p>
<p>One quick question regarding the Admission Statistics - On the first page of this discussion the total-score SAT middle 50% was listed. Does anyone know what the specific breakdown of the individual math & reading SAT scores were? ex: Math middle 50% and Reading middle 50%?</p>
<p>Just checking in and I wanted to mention that my daughter was told on Wednesday the 6th that she was being granted admission off the wait list BUT that she had until May 15th to make her decision. She received her (very generous) financial aid package two days (on a Friday the 8th) after notice of admission. Though we made our decision once we had the finaid, Notre Dame was great in giving us time to weigh the decision.</p>
<p>My point here is that the 15th has come and gone and ND Admissions now knows who accepted their offer and they can move on the list. I wouldn’t say it is over by any means.</p>
<p>Good luck to all still waiting for the good news.</p>
<p>The original numbers in the first post were released to ND clubs around the country. We have not seen any further detail since then.</p>
<p>what I know is distressing to Notre Dame admissions office is that they did not get the 3000+ more applications they expected this year when they moved to the common application…and they are bothered how Duke keeps moving up in the rankings . while ND is stagnant around 18th…</p>
<p>I truly believe being stagnant in the rankings is due to the poor graduate school. The rankings are created by those in academics, and we judge a school by their alumni. Even though I am a proud alum, few people will know (or care) where I went to undergrad, what is important is where I got my doctorate. Academics are seeing scholars coming out of Duke’s grad schools, so they have a high impression of Duke. However, they aren’t seeing anyone coming out of ND’s. Therefore, how are they going to compare the two?</p>
<p>That being said, the Princeton Review rankings are undergraduate rankings. I believe the peer assessment score is highly flawed for the reason I just outlined, it is judged by people who know more about graduate rankings than undergrad. I honestly would put ND’s undergraduate education against any school in the nation, seriously, anyone. The reason why (and so few people understand this unless they have been outside of ND) is that at other schools the emphasis is on the graduate schools. Undergraduates are people you have to deal with, they don’t get the attention and they surely don’t get the opportunities they have at Notre Dame. </p>
<p>I had weekly meetings with a faculty advisor and published as an undergraduate at Notre Dame. Those things are very hard to do elsewhere. Heck, there are faculty members I know who don’t meet with their grad students, let alone their undergrads. This isn’t factored into the rankings, but I think it should be. You can go to Harvard, Yale, Duke, Stanford, anywhere with a grad school, you will always be second to the grad students. ND is one of the few places that that isn’t the case (and, ironically, I think it is because the graduate programs aren’t stellar). I heard my ND advisor say several times that she preferred to work with her undergrads because they were more serious students than her grad students. It isn’t like that at other places.</p>
<p>It takes a LONG time to turn a graduate department around. First, you have to recruit faculty from other top schools, who already have great research and publication records, to a department that isn’t even on the radar screen for grad programs. Once you have them in place, then you have to convince the best grad students to take a chance on an unknown department (which is why you need to recruit the faculty with established track records first) – this involves convincing their undergrad advisors as well. Then you have to get those students placed in good academic or industry positions, which helps establish your credentials as a serious department, and those students need to produce and get tenure down the road. All of this takes time and money, but Notre Dame is already in the process of making major improvements in a number of departments.</p>
<p>but the problem for ND with trying to improve any of the hard sciences or engineering, is that it is very expensive and thye have to get a lot of grants. The problem for ND is that it is hard for a religious instition to be perceived as being open on research issues (think stem cell), so peers won’t vote for them in the rankings, so I don’t see how they can ever get top echelon for rankings…because it is grad school related.</p>
<p>ND should mimic Dartmouth, emphasize undergrad and not get into the expensive arms race for grad schools.</p>
<p>i do believe that their intention is to focus on undergrad, even if they are devoting some more money to grad. when i visited there last summer, the admissions counselor specifically said that ND was an undergraduate institution.</p>