2009 Best Law Schools

Graduate School Law School
1

<p>The top 50 schools in the much-leaked (and, as of today, much discussed and published) US News rankings of U.S. law schools for 2009 is as follows:</p>

<li> Yale</li>
<li> Harvard (tie)
Stanford</li>
<li> Columbia</li>
<li> NYU</li>
<li> Berkeley</li>
<li> Chicago (tie)
Penn</li>
<li> Northwestern (tie)
Michigan
Virginia</li>
<li> Cornell (tie)
Duke</li>
<li> Georgetown</li>
<li> Vanderbilt</li>
<li> UCLA (tie)
Texas</li>
<li> USC</li>
<li> WashU</li>
<li> GW</li>
<li> BU</li>
<li> Emory (tie)
Minnesota - Twin Cities
Notre Dame</li>
<li> Washington and Lee</li>
<li> BC</li>
<li> Fordham (tie)
UIUC
Iowa</li>
<li> William and Mary (tie)
U of Washington</li>
<li> Ohio State (tie)
Alabama
Colorado-Boulder
Georgia</li>
<li> Indiana - Bloomington (tie)
Wisconsin - Madison</li>
<li> George Mason (tie)
Arizona
Hastings (UCalifornia)
UNC</li>
<li> Maryland (tie)
Wake Forest</li>
<li> Tulane (tie)
California - Davis</li>
<li> American (tie)
BYU
SMU
UConn
Florida</li>
</ol>

2

<p>Alas, number two again. Still loving it. Thanks Sally. You are always on top
of the real news.</p>

3

<p>thanks Sally for the info. Interesting -- but I wonder if it changes anyones mind. (I certainly hope not). I just can't image that a kid who got accepted to both Berkley and U Chicago would decide to go Berkley as it moved up in the ranks (at least for this year).</p>

<p>bottom line - the T-3's are still the same T-3's and the T -14 are still the same T-14's. And schools that have been fairly generous with merit scholarship $ are in the top 20 (GW and WUSTL)</p>

<p>Though I don't know what Tulane's rank was pre-Katrina, I'm glad it still remains a Top 50 school as it shows lots of law students still find New Orleans a desireable place to go to school.</p>

4

<p>
[quote]
I just can't imagine that a kid who got accepted to both Berkeley and U Chicago would decide to go Berkeley as it moved up in the ranks (at least for this year).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>On another discussion about law schools site, there's a rather entertaining thread where one student is basically doing just that. The title of the thread, from a student who had all-but-chosen Chicago, is "Bah, humbug."</p>

5

<p>Have any of you seen the new Vault ranking? It's based solely on where hiring partners say they get their best associates. Yale came in #10--not so surprising, since a lot of Yalies don't go into "biglaw." Stanford gave in first. The U of Indiana was surprisingly high and UPenn surprisingly low. </p>

<p>I'm not vouching for the survey's validity...just mentioning it.</p>

6

<p>bdm- is the discussion about Wally?? He is sort of an interesting character. He does seem to be the type that might bolt to Boalt because it is "ranked" higher than U of Chicago.<br>
--it takes all kinds.</p>

<p>and btw- did you make your decision??? I think you have some wonderful choices (if you are the guy, I think you are on the other site).</p>

<p>generally speaking- any top 5 school that offered my kid the big bucks is where I'd encourage my kid to go to school. But that is just my opinion.
Good luck!!</p>

7

<p>OOPS! Through a PM, I've been advised I should have said Indiana U rather than U of Indiana. Sorry! No offense intended.</p>

8

<p>For anyone who is interested, the following are the law schools that round out the top 100 on the new list:</p>

<ol>
<li> Utah</li>
<li> ASU (tie)
Cincinnati
Tennessee - Knoxville</li>
<li> Baylor (tie)
FSU
Houston
Yeshiva (Cardozo)</li>
<li> Pepperdine (tie)
Temple
Kentucky
Missouri</li>
<li> Brooklyn (tie)
Case Western
Loyola Marymount</li>
<li> Illinois Institute of Technology (tie)
Seton Hall</li>
<li> Indiana University - Indianapolis (tie)
New Mexico
Oklahoma
Richmond
Villanova</li>
<li> Lewis and Clark (tie)
Kansas
Nebraska
Pitt</li>
<li> Georgia State (tie)
Penn State
Rutgers - Newark
Rutgers - Camden
Santa Clara</li>
<li> Loyola University Chicago (tie)
Seattle University
Hawaii
U of Miami
Oregon
University of San Diego</li>
<li> Catholic U (tie)
DePaul
LSU
Northeastern
St. John's (NY)
U of Denver
UNLV</li>
<li> Marquette (tie)
St. Louis U
U of South Carolina
U of the Pacific</li>
<li> Hofstra</li>
<li> Mercer (tie)
Stetson
Syracuse
SUNY Buffalo
U of Louisville</li>
</ol>

9

<p>Will be visiting four schools in the next week and a half and choosing between them. At this point, I think I'm unlikely to follow the money -- but we'll see.</p>

10

<p>Not that I really want to rat out my alma mater, but Boalt's jump in the rankings (with an overall score of 81, beating the 80 points awarded to Penn and Chicago) may be related to its eyebrow-raising claim that 99% of its graduates are employed at graduation.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.abovethelaw.com/images/entries/US%20News%20World%20Report%202009%20law%20school%20rankings%20ratings%20Above%20the%20Law%20blog.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.abovethelaw.com/images/entries/US%20News%20World%20Report%202009%20law%20school%20rankings%20ratings%20Above%20the%20Law%20blog.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

11

<p>bdm- my best wishes to you. I'm sure the next few weeks will be an extremely exciting time for you.
-there are no bad choices. So have fun with your trip and good luck.</p>

<p>and don't buy the hype about NY'rs. We really are very nice.</p>

<p>Sally- Thanks for the rest of the list.</p>

12

<p>^Greybeard,</p>

<p>I wonder if Boalt's jump is a result of an error. % graduates employed at graduation is <em>exactly</em> the same as % graduates employed 3(?) months after graduation. That seems rather unlikely.</p>

13

<p>Sam,</p>

<p>It does seem unlikely. That's why my eyebrows were raised.</p>

14

<p>Alot of people say, law school is only worth the investment if you go to a "top school" or graduate at the top of your class in a lower ranked school. I was wondering what a top school is considered to be. Sure, people like to say T14 as the elite level, but I'm sure that many people in schools ranked 15-25 or 30 get some great jobs. I know a silly ranking isn't the best way to quantify what school is better than another, but is something in the 20-30 range on this list still considered to be a "top school"?</p>

15

<p>If your goal is to get top money upon graduation, you either need to graduate from the "top" schools - as in T10-14 or graduate in the "top" of the class from others - preferably on law review also. How far you can go down the list will then depend on where you want to practice. If you want "biglaw" in Baltimore/DC, then top of the class Univ of Maryland will do it. If you want "biglaw" NY, Fordham is fine. Some things are quirky - for example, I have not found Vanderbilt to fare as well in DC as some schools ranked below it - maybe a southern bias - who knows.</p>

16

<p>looks like Columbia topped NYU for 09</p>

17

<p>The abovethelaw blog has some very interesting memoranda that have been sent by law schools that have dropped in the US News rankings to their student bodies. I'll attach a selection below.</p>

<p>University of Iowa:</p>

<p>
[quote]
From: Dean Carolyn Jones</p>

<p>Date: March 28, 2008</p>

<p>Re: US News Rankings</p>

<p>The US News and World Report law school rankings for this spring show that our ranking is 27 (down from 24 last year). Some members of law school community have expressed anxiety about that change. Given the publicity that surrounds the rankings, I understand and respect your concern. There is some information on this subject that you might not be aware of, and that I think you’ll find relevant and reassuring. I’ll refer briefly to some of it here, but I believe a face-to-face conversation would be especially helpful. At the end of this memo you’ll find information about scheduling a time to get together.</p>

<p>Please be assured that the law school administration has not been asleep at the switch on this issue. Indeed, we have been studying the US News rankings at a very high level over the past year. Hundreds of hours of sophisticated thought by alumni, faculty and staff have gone into this project, informally dubbed the Apollo Project. We have been considering ways of bringing new resources to the law school that will enhance our rankings and – more importantly – substantively strengthen the institution. The Iowa Law School Foundation Board has already taken important steps in this direction, and it will take additional ones at its meeting this weekend. I will provide more information when we meet.</p>

<p>As you may know, the U.S. News rankings themselves have been the subject of rather intense study. Without ignoring their obvious importance, it’s also essential to understand something about how they work – and don’t work. I may be able to share some information with you on that subject as well, but in the meantime, you might find it useful to look at Theodore Seto’s article, Understanding the US News Law School Rankings, 60 S.M.U. L. Rev. 493 (2007). It is thought-provoking, thorough and extremely helpful in understanding how the rankings work.</p>

<p>Like you, I care very much about this school. It is my alma mater. I have very high ambitions for the College of Law, its students, faculty, staff and alumni. My aim is to continue our strong traditions and to improve this school in ways that assure this is a top notch educational and professional experience. At the core of that project for the coming years is more student financial aid and strong support for our faculty in their teaching, research and service missions.</p>

<p>Times for discussion groups are listed below. I hope that you will sign up for a session in the Dean’s office. This is a College of Law with a wonderful and respected faculty, outstanding students and a dedicated staff. We do have a challenge, but it is one we can meet constructively and positively. That process is well-underway. </p>

<p>Meeting times - please sign up at the reception area in 280 Boyd Law Building:</p>

<p>. Tues, April 1 from 11-12
. Tues, April 1 from 4-5
. Wed, April 2 from 11-12
. Mon, April 7 from 9-10
. Tues, April 8 from 8-9
. Wed, April 9 from 3-4
. Thurs, April 10 from 1-2
. Fri, April 11 from 9-10
. Fri, April 11 from 4-5

[/quote]
</p>

<p>SUNY Buffalo Law School:</p>

<p>
[quote]
Our Dear Students:</p>

<p>As you may be aware, U.S. News & World Report will issue its 2008 ranking of law schools tomorrow. Unfortunately, our ranking has dropped from 77 to 100. You are the future of this Law School, and I want to assure you that we will do everything in our power to rectify this situation as quickly as possible, and move this School forward beyond our previous position. My goal is to get this law school into the top 50. We are carrying out an aggressive internal planning process to raise funds, attract star faculty, recruit a stellar class, raise our LSAT, and produce good scholarship--all important factors in how we will rank next year. In addition, we are reaching out to our employer partners and prominent alumni, all of whom remain confident in the quality of our legal education. We know that this is unsettling news for each of you. Please know that the value of your education is of the utmost concern to this administration and faculty.</p>

<p>Makau Mutua, Interim Dean
SUNY Distinguished Professor and
Floyd H. and Hilda L. Hurst Faculty Scholar

[/quote]
</p>

<p>U of Minnesota Law School:</p>

<p>
[quote]
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 09:06:38 -0500
From: Law Deans
Subject: US News Rankings
To: [All Law School]</p>

<p>Dear Faculty, Staff and Students:</p>

<p>Some local newspapers reported this morning that the current U.S. News
Rankings show us in a tie for 22nd place. Many law schools are closely
ranked and a slight shortfall in any one of the technical categories can
lead to a shift of one or two places, as happened this year. The U.S. News
ranking is a combination of many factors (e.g., reputation among other
legal educators and practitioners, LSAT scores of the entering class, what
percentage of applicants we accept, how many books are in the library,
etc.). We plan to address the particular factors that have caused a decline
this year.</p>

<p>One key factor is our reputation among the leaders of other law schools. On
that measure we remain in the Top 20. We expect to build on this academic
reputation, and to address the technical factors that have caused a slight
decline. We also believe that the arrival of a permanent dean - Dean
Wippman - this summer will also help in bolstering our rankings.</p>

<p>Dean Wippman is committed to maintaining and improving the quality of the
school. We look forward to working with him to address this question.</p>

<p>Fred Morrison and Guy Charles

[/quote]
</p>

18

<p>UNC-Chapel Hill Law School:</p>

<p>
[quote]
From: Jack Boger
Date: Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 5:29 PM
Subject: US News Rankings: 2009/ Carolina Law
To: Law Students</p>

<p>March 27, 2008</p>

<p>Dear Carolina Law Students,</p>

<p>Tomorrow, March 28th, the US News & World Report will officially release its 2009 ranking of law schools. Because those numbers have been widely reported during the past 24 hours on websites throughout the nation, we are sharing them with you today, after the close of business. The results for Carolina Law are mixed; we slipped slightly from 36th to 38th overall. The data nonetheless show big positive developments since last year -- our student/faculty ratio has improved dramatically, from 20.1/1 to 15.7./1; the GPAs of our 2007 entering class are up from 3.39-3.77 (25th and 75th percentiles) to 3.45-3.80; and first-time North Carolina bar passage rates for our May, 2006 graduates are up from to 83.4% to 86.5%. Moreover, we have significantly more resources per student (thanks to the University, the North Carolina General Assembly, and our generous alumni). We have also retained the outstanding scholarly reputational ranking we've long held among other scholars and academics (still 17th in the nation) and among lawyers and judges (still 19th in the nation).</p>

<p>I fully appreciate that rankings do matter to many, including students. Let me assure you that we at Carolina Law will be working every single day during this coming year to strengthen our already excellent faculty, to augment the quality and usefulness of our students' preparation for law practice, and to deepen the assistance we afford each student throughout the academic year and upon graduation.</p>

<p>We will further enlarge the size of our faculty with wonderful new hires. We will continue to attract extraordinarily talented students from North Carolina and throughout the nation. And once our students arrive in Chapel Hill, they will continue do inspired work -- in their classes, in 55 student organizations, in five law reviews and journals, in nationally competitive moot court teams, in splendid lectures and conferences, and in selfless public service activities. We now have a special new source of focus and energy: the University's commitment to build a splendid new law building at Carolina North in the near future, which will reflect the finest in 21st century legal training and community outreach. In sum, there is much of which to be proud.</p>

<p>So how then can we have lost a little ground? Most obvious are US News' reported figures for "employed 9 months after graduation," which at 88.8% seem lower than many of our peers. Yet this year's US News relies on figures for our May, 2006 graduates that are now nearly two years old. During the ensuing two years, Carolina Law has undertaken a major, yearlong study and subsequent reorganization of our Career Services Office. We have made the outstanding hire of Brian Lewis as Assistant Dean. We have increased the CSO professional staff from 2 to 6. Alas, these tremendous changes are not reflected in the new US News data, nor is the placement rate for the most recent, May, 2007 class (which is 93.3%). Thus Carolina Law finds itself judged by a metric that reflects the CSO office of two years ago, before our new CSO leadership, our much improved staffing, and our much clearer mission.</p>

<p>According to US News, Carolina Law also appears to have slipped ever so slightly in our raw reputational score among lawyers and judges. Yet a '3.8' score still places us 19th in the nation, exactly where we stood last year. Indeed, earlier this week, we were heartened when another national survey conducted among 100+ law firms ranked Carolina Law graduates 23rd among all law schools in their knowledge of law, level of skills, and readiness for law practice.</p>

<p>Finally, although we met the US News deadline of October for reporting our total finances per student, that deadline came just BEFORE we actually received a generous and crucial $2 million appropriation in recurring State funds from the North Carolina General Assembly -- new funds that are already having a major, positive impact on student and faculty programs.</p>

<p>North Carolina's state motto, as many of you know, is Esse Quam Videre, to be rather than to seem. We know in our hearts and we experience every day how outstanding and perfectly wonderful this venerable public university law school is. (That's precisely what the ABA site inspection team assured us after their four-day visit in February). We'd very much hope in the future not only to be outstanding (as we are), but also to SEEM so to everyone who glances in our direction. Regrettably, US News has still not fully captured either our present worth or our future trajectory. We will work hard to assure that our 'being' and our 'seeming' will soon coincide. Best wishes to all.</p>

<p>Jack Boger</p>

<p>John Charles Boger
Dean and Wade Edwards Distinguished Professor of Law
School of Law, CB# 3380, University of North Carolina

[/quote]
</p>

19

<p>This makes me sad. A two-rank drop is worth all this? Of course, compared to some other schools' efforts ("The Apollo Project,") this is relatively mild.</p>

20

<p>There is something really pathetic about those letters.</p>