2011 Application Season Debrief

Colleges & Universities A-Z Massachusetts Institute of Technology
1

<p>Hi everyone - </p>

<p>So piper and I were talking the other day and she remarked on how calm and collected CC had/has been after decision day. </p>

<p>The first thing I want to say is that I really appreciate it. Seriously. You're all my babies. I know how tough this can be. See: MIT</a> Admissions | Blog Entry: "Bleary-eyed ". It means a lot. </p>

<p>I was tempted to leave well enough alone, but I guess I want to know how things went for you. What was helpful about our process? What was unhelpful? Were there areas in which we could have assisted students more in our communication or application? </p>

<p>We keep on trying to make our process better, more transparent, more understandable, more comprehensible, more meaningful, and more satisfactory to students, admitted or not. And things like this can really help.</p>

2

<p>Hmm, I honestly wouldn’t change a thing. Applied to 8 schools, and Boston U and MIT were the only two that managed to be polite and helpful all of the times that I asked questions via phone. The MIT application was awesome, and the website’s interface was great too (college sites are a bit difficult to navigate, IMHO). It seems that most people who apply to MIT are serious about wanting to attend, so I would stick with having an MIT specific app.</p>

<p>I don’t know, I don’t really have much to say, except that the MIT people were great and the MIT CC community was by far the best one that I’ve been a part of. Its a bummer that I didn’t get in, but its one of few schools that I can get rejected by and not feel bitter toward.</p>

<p>Thanks for the good year,
Dat boi michaelwiggins</p>

3

<p>The MIT application helped me learn about myself. It’s great! I called a couple times to ask questions, and both times, someone from the admissions office helped me quickly and kindly. Not much to improve on!</p>

4

<p>I agree. MIT’s application process and admissions office was quite amazing - by far among the top of the pack out of the schools to which I applied. I found the blogs especially helpful. The posts from the admissions team especially did a great job helping me to understand the progress. Everything I read was kind and understanding, but did not leave any disillusions regarding the probable outcome of applying. The student blogs do a great job of detailing life at MIT (though I didn’t read those until admittance - I didn’t want to get too attached!).</p>

<p>I also really liked the application in itself. The short answer format made it easy to talk about many different aspects about who you are, what you do, and where you come from. Also, overall, the general mood of the admissions team always seemed to be amiable and kind. For instance, I was considering submitting an art portfolio to several schools. After exploring websites, I saw that some schools said only to submit one if you have “extraordinary talent”. I ended up not submitting one to these schools, as I wasn’t sure what they meant/if they really were open to supplemental material. But, MIT’s section was more along the lines of, “if it’s something you enjoy, go for it - it can’t hurt!”. This kind of “go with the flow” mood was apparent in all aspects of the MIT website and the admissions process. I really appreciated it, and for me, at least, it made this process that much less stressful.</p>

5

<p>I’d also like to add that the fact that this topic even exists speaks a great deal about MIT’s admissions process.</p>

6

<p>I like that MIT makes topics like this. The MIT admissions process is much more transparent than it is at any other school, and I think that is its best feature. Keep it up.</p>

<p>The application itself is nice, but I would still prefer a Common Application + supplement deal. It just makes it easier to have all of our stuff on one website, especially now that there are so few hold-outs. The only essay question I would change is to make the “What is your desired field?” thing into a one-line box, not a short-answer. I felt like, as somebody who was fairly certain about that, there was an uncomfortable amount of space that I ended up filling with too much BS.</p>

<p>What I would change: too much unnecessary waiting! The deferrals in EA are, I think, the start of it. I understand that MIT will need to defer some people. But to defer 80% of applicants? I know it is hard to judge them without the rest of the applicant pool there, but I think you need to just toughen up and do it. Aim for a much lower deferral rate next year, and more flat-out rejections. I really think those kids will appreciate it in the long run, and plus it will make the few people who are rejected currently seem less singled-out for being in the bottom 10% of the EA applicant pool. I could say something about the giant waitlist too, but I’m sure you’re aware of that.</p>

<p>Full disclosure: I was Deferred EA –> Waitlisted RD, so I know about my MIT waiting.</p>

7

<p>I got in (so I may be a little biased) but I thought that the process was terrific.</p>

<p>The screen before I logged in to see my decision (it was EA, I assume RA was the same) was very thoughtful and kind. MIT really seems to care about all applicants whether they get in or not. </p>

<p>I would imagine it to be incredibly hard to matriculate to a school with such a kind admissions process. I am going to CPW to check MIT out but if the admissions process is reflective of the school there is no way I am not going to MIT (that is if I have the money for it).</p>

<p>(I am not sure how coherent this post is because I am in a sick stupor right now and fading in an out. But hopefully it’s understandable.)</p>

8

<p>I pretty much loved every piece of advice/information that you guys gave, and the transparency you go by. When writing my application I definitely referred to a few posts on the blogs (namely the Match Between You and MIT, I believe) and emphasized the qualities I have that MIT looks for. I honestly thought that, character-wise, I fit in perfectly at MIT. Perfectly. My grades, while not at the top of the pile, weren’t too shabby either.
I was rejected.
I love the posts that you guys put up for rejected (or ‘denied’, as you guys put it politely) on the blog. Ben’s post is genius, and really touching. I get that you love your job, love getting to know us, etc. I get that it’s difficult for you as well, and that you know nothing will comfort us at the moment, after we put all our bets on MIT and were flat-out said ‘no’ to in one second, it sort of makes everything we’ve done pointless (in my case, it actually did make a couple things pointless, and it didn’t just ‘seem’ that way, but I won’t get into that.) But all the posts go on to say that you’ll be great wherever you go, yadayada. We know. That’s not what we’re worried about or sad about. I’m not even that disappointed that I won’t be getting an MIT education, there’s plenty of places that lead to success, and there are notable advantages to my rejection (full ride elsewhere, excellent college, close to home…) but it’s the fact that we’re deprived what we know would’ve been the experience of a lifetime for 4 years that one will not have the chance to repeat, ever. I was already imagining myself with the Brass Rat. Guess I got a bit carried away there.</p>

<p>Despite what I tell my friends and family, I’m still disappointed. I had so many reasons for wanting the acceptance, reasons unrelated to my future, reasons directly related to my present, my friends, and so many other points that I don’t want to get into on the web.</p>

<p>Put simply, I love how transparent you guys were during the whole process (the simple fact that you’re making this thread, Chris, proves you’re great at this respect), but sometimes, it felt like it wasn’t enough. I don’t think ad. officers completely understand the source of the disappointment, which is fine, because I don’t get it completely myself, and I’m sure that it’s different for each person. Perhaps there should be more focus in the ‘consolation blog post’ on the applicant, rather than the admissions officer, for next year. Don’t say stuff like ‘you’ll do fine wherever you go’, please. Perhaps it would be a good idea, even, if you got an applicant who was rejected the previous year as a guest blogger to show how it’s been since, but I’ll let you be the judge.</p>

<p>There’s one issue I had with the way we’re addressed, though. Sometimes you guys give hope when there is none, or downplay rejection, or whatever. I don’t have specific examples at the moment, but I remember that when a negative aspect comes up it’s usually downplayed. I get the reason this is done, but I don’t like it much - it’s like a doctor giving hope to a dying patient. Sometimes the blunt truth is just better. </p>

<p>I’m still going to apply for grad school at MIT, where I’ve heard if you do a couple things right in college you’re almost sure to get in, so basically I’ll probably be there in 4 years if I work for it, and I look forward to the experience there. But I’m sure it’s not the same as undergrad, and that’s one aspect that sucks, aside from the whole personal reasons and whatnot, which again, are unique to each person, I’m sure.
But, anyway. Life goes on, I suppose. I really thank you guys for being open with us, it’s more than many other colleges do, and I hope you find this post helpful.</p>

9

<p>@jimmy - </p>

<p>thanks for that post. i have two questions. </p>

<p>1) what would a consolation blog post be, if not “you’ll do great wherever”, and not mikey’s post </p>

<p>and </p>

<p>2) a few students have mentioned being felt “led on” by MIT, and that the “blunt truth” would be better. how could we be more forthright with students? what parts of our process felt leading?</p>

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<p>I think part of the reason for being “led on” is because MIT does provide so much effort to connect with prospective applicants. I guess greater disappointment is only to be expected becuase MIT really, sincerely, does do so much to reach out to all applicants. Few other admissions websites held that same charm for me. I felt that MIT’s admissions website was very user-friendly, fun to read, and personable. I read all the blogs, and the you>MIT links were very informative. I think I started to imagine myself at MIT even before I applied. </p>

<p>Obviously, when I was deferred EA, it felt like a personal attack. Like MIT had offered its hand and slapped mine away when I reached out too. </p>

<p>However, I think it’s safe to say that I was totally delusioned durign the process. I was well aware of the facts-- the low acceptance rates, the stats of previous admitted students, but that was probably through research of my own. So in order to “soften” the reality of the blow of rejection or being waitlisted, I’d suggest to make more prevalent these facts. </p>

<p>I think that when people are rejected from HYPS, their negative reactions are of lesser magnitude simply because these schools are sort of “mystical” and hold almost a pompous air, so you almost expect to rejected. MIT is different because it’s just so down to earth, so the reactions are different.</p>

<p>In short, I’d say to not change a thing about how MIT reaches out to students (it’s one of the things that made MIT VERY attractive to me), and instead make the scary facts (e.g. admissions rates) more prevalent.</p>

11

<p>By the way, I loved the bleary-eyed blog post. It was really touching and made the admissions process (retroactively) seem so much more personale. Like it felt good that my application was in ~human hands. </p>

<p>Along this topic, I also loved it when admissions officers just posted about whatever was happening in their lives. It made them seem a lot less scary, and once again, it made me feel better that my application went to people who were people-like. (if that makes any sense…)</p>

12

<p>As the mother of an MIT EA Admit, I would like to say that we have really appreciated the openness and friendliness of the staff and especially love the blogs. Of the schools that D applied to, your blogs were the most regularly updated, relevant and informative.</p>

<p>D appreciated very much the shorter essay passages and, since it was the first application she completed, the questions made her reflect on herself and her abilities and even helped her choose what other colleges she wanted to apply to.</p>

<p>Contrary to some of the comments to the “bleary-eyed” post, D was never made to believe that she had any more than an 11% (the approximate acceptance rate from last year) chance of getting in. The whole idea, IMO, of someone assuming that they have a right to get in for whatever reason is crazy. The self-selecting nature of MIT applicants, in and of itself, makes it impossible to guarantee a spot for anyone. At D’s school, at least, the only kids who applied were not only the best students in their AP math and science classes, but were also brave enough to throw their hats in the ring, knowing full well that it probably would not work out for them.</p>

<p>One small complaint, however: Since we are heavily reliant upon the financial aid “bottom line” to determine if D will be able to attend, it would have been great if the EA Admits could have received an earlier notification of financial aid (we still don’t have it!). Yes, that would mean that our tax and other information would have to be sent in sooner as well, but we find that D is being forced to “show the love” to many other colleges, including writing multiple scholarship essays, attending and paying for CPW events and interviews, and, most importantly, delaying the acceptance of other kids (maybe even her own friends) from their dream schools, just because she needs to keep her options open. We were very jealous of the “one and done” people we met at the MIT EA Admit Reception in December (which, by the way, was also very nice!).</p>

<p>Were it not for the financial aid question that still hangs over our heads, D would have been “one and done” as well.</p>

13

<p>@…ehz - </p>

<p>That’s very interesting. I understand how our more transparent, less mystified process could engender that response. It’s tough. We have to walk a fine line. If we tell people “91% of you won’t get in, let’s be honest”, then a lot of great kids who might get in don’t apply. We know that to be the case. But we also don’t want to lead kids on. I don’t know how we fix that. So any suggestions any of you all have are appreciated. </p>

<p>@dignified - </p>

<p>I’ll pass that along. I’m honestly not sure our FinAid office has the ability to get everything done before then, as our financial aid budget isn’t set during the EA period. But better communication on the FinAid front is definitely something we’re hoping to address in the near future.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>One complaint I didn’t mention in my original post but should here:
-The application, specific to MIT, is pretty excellent. But it would probably be better if the word count was 300 words… I know it would’ve been for me, since I was going by the ‘show, don’t tell’ mantra and struggled to cut my essays down to 250 words. One I left at slightly over 300; I felt I needed to show both my writing style, which is a projection of myself, and the story, which sort of defines me. Hope it wasn’t looked down on unfavorably.
I found the Common App bland in comparison, the MIT one is much better.
-Second point - for the ‘difficulties’ essay. I know it’s there so that you look as to how a person can overcome difficulties, as they’re going to be abundant at MIT. But some people, perhaps, haven’t faced the same types of academic difficulties that you might be looking for, so I hope that adcoms don’t look negatively on an ‘overcoming difficulty’ essay not written about academics/leadership, stuff like that.</p>

<p>As for your questions, Chris:

  1. Honestly, Ben’s blog post was perfect in many ways. Not to insult Mikey or anything (his post was sure as hell really great too), but as I’d already read Ben’s post beforehand, it felt a bit… redundant. I don’t know how you’ll look upon this idea, but I think it would be great if a student wrote the consolation post, with a link to Ben/Mikey’s posts. A student who was rejected from MIT the year before, perhaps, who can show his experience after rejection. A sample of where one’s life could be after a disaster might help one get there quicker, if you know what I mean. Each student might take something different from that one, relate in his/her own way, because often, the reason for wanting a college really badly is more than just perfect fit, thought that is probably the leading reason. But there’s always an even more personal cause. I could perhaps give you details of why I wanted it myself, but in a PM (though I might bore you to death with it.)
    By the way, though I said not to use it, the cliche’d expression of ‘you’ll do well wherever you go’ should be mentioned, no doubt, because though the number will be few, some applicants might need to be reminded of this fact. But focus should be elsewhere.</p>

<p>2) First, I’d like to make it clear that I wasn’t one of those students, because though I thought I had a good shot due to the simple fact that my personality fit MIT, I still tried my best to keep it at arm’s length and be reasonable (especially due to the int’l acceptance rate.)
Anyway, I think the reason one might be led on is because you guys love us so much that sometimes, just sometimes, you make it sound like everyone can make it. There’s over-emphasis on the character traits and essays and a lot - and I mean a lot - of downplaying the grades. In all the time I’ve read about MIT, there were 2 points I was never clear on, and I’m not sure if this was intentional on your part or simply because you didn’t want to be this blunt, but in any case these two points are: -Are an applicant’s chances significantly decreased if he’s in the top 10 or 15% rather than top 5%, or is it that after you’ve seen that a person will be competitive/able to succeed at MIT you go on to essays and recs, literally without giving grades a further look in the process? (Combined the two points into one but that was it.) I can see the difficulty of wanting to tell, say, a top 15%-er to apply because he might get in. I know you want to do that. But at the same time you might be telling all top 15% students that they stand the same chance as a top 5% kid, which I doubt is true. So I’m guessing you’re looking for a solution for this. I’ll try and think of something.
I have a sort of bias against rankings, though, because I don’t think they’re indicative of potential, at least not for all students. So that should probably be taken into consideration.</p>

<p>Okay I know this post wasn’t that helpful or well written, but then I’m not a psychology major (though I’m pretty good at it), I’ve never worked in admissions, and it’s late and I have a migraine so I’m not writing concisely (or that well for that matter). But if you need any further information from a student’s point of view, Chris, or if you’d like elaboration on something in this post, I’m more than happy to provide.</p>

15

<p>Oops! I meant to say I WASN’T totally delusioned!</p>

<p>Sent from my DROIDX using CC App</p>

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<p>Chris, I commend you for inviting feedback about MIT’s process. </p>

<p>As a parent of a student that did NOT complete his application to MIT, I want to echo dignified’s comments about EA financial aid and make one other suggestion about interviews.</p>

<p>S originally intended to apply EA to MIT, but we steered him at the last minute to apply SCEA to another university. The primary reason for this was if he was accepted to MIT but did not know the FinAid until after the RD deadline for other colleges then we felt he must proceed assuming that we could not afford MIT. Thus, even with an EA MIT admit, S would need to apply to other colleges he was considering anyway. For us, EA acceptance to MIT would not relieve much stress. [Note: We have very complicated financials so an online ‘aid calculator’ would be of little help. And, in full disclosure, ~25 years ago I was accepted to MIT but could not afford to attend; even though MIT’s aid is ‘much better’ now, we felt we needed to treat FinAid with skepticism until we received an estimate on official letterhead.]</p>

<p>S applied to the other (comparable quality) university and we submitted the CSS Profile forms with estimated financials. In December, S was accepted and received his estimated aid package within one day of his acceptance. (We were humbled by the other institution’s generosity. Knowing that he was both ‘in’ and we could afford to send him was a HUGE relief to our family.) </p>

<p>At this point, however, S still intended to apply for MIT RD.</p>

<p>This leads to my other suggestion for improvement. I don’t know about the consistency of training for MIT alumni interviewers, especially in remote areas of the U.S. (we’re in the Midwest), but S chose not to finish his application to MIT based on some comments made by his interviewer. S heard such things as the interviewer was the only one of about a dozen close friends to graduate from MIT within 4 years–very scary to a family that is not wealthy. Interviewer also mentioned that MIT tries to present itself as strong in humanities as well as in science and engineering but don’t believe it. S’s comment to me after interview: “I know I’m a nerd, but I don’t want to attend a place where <em>everyone</em> is a nerd.” I don’t believe that’s true of MIT, but keep in mind that S had not visited MIT, so the interview was his only personal interaction with MIT. Unfortunately, it undid some of enthusiasm that S had gained for MIT via the many mailings he received. S notified interviewer two days later that he would not complete his MIT application.</p>

<p>Bottom line recommendations:</p>

<p>** EA Financial Aid **: Numerous other top colleges with EA programs provide financial aid estimates along with or shortly after EA admit notifications. Non-wealthy families may not accept on faith that MIT will be affordable. MIT’s current EA system essentially encourages such students to apply elsewhere even if MIT is the student’s top choice. </p>

<p>Per your comments to “dignified”, couldn’t MIT EA use a CSS Profile form (say due by November 15), that would allow MIT to provide a reasonable FinAid estimate before full-year family financials and MIT’s following year budget are known?</p>

<p>** Interview feedback? **: Maybe build a feedback system where students can provide anonymous comments about their interviews? This would need to be disconnected from the admissions process to avoid applicants trying to affect outcomes (i.e. reporting problems with an interviewer to overcome a student’s ‘bad’ interview). However, anecdotes from this feedback, if summarized and provided to interviewers, might reduce occurrences like my S experienced.</p>

<p>This is a tough challenge as I realize it is difficult to manage a diverse alumni network. I am sure MIT has excellent interviewer training materials, but that doesn’t mean all interviewers adhere to the guidelines.</p>

<p>Of the two suggestions, the EA FinAid issue is more crucial IMHO.</p>

<p>Thanks again for inviting feedback on the admissions process. MIT is a great university and congratulations to all who were accepted this year. Everything worked out OK for S, so I hope this reply sounds constructive and not like I’m complaining. However, if MIT made the above tweaks to its admissions process, I believe it would be perceived as even more inviting to additional students who may be extremely talented but not extremely wealthy.</p>

<p>(Note: although I’ve lurked on CC for some time, this is my first post. Please forgive formatting or other newbie issues.)</p>

17

<p>Hi Chris, thanks for the opportunity to give feedback. My daughter was deferred EA and now waitlisted. It just feels like it won’t end and I don’t know how to be encouraging yet realistic. I agree that you either need to shorten the wait list and or defer less in EA. Now I am not sure what she should do to up her chances in round three. We have read the blog etc. I know we will try we have a family tradition at MIT. I just don’t know if I can take anther log in at 9:26 hanging over is. I hope any further rejections or hopefully acceptance show up without a previous announcement as to the exact date and time. She was accepted at CalTech and we weren’t expecting it until latter and I have to say it was much less stressful. Not the big build up and disappointment yet again. Thanks.</p>

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<p>Chris, when does MIT do a second review of financial aid based on 2010 tax returns?</p>

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<p>@stbentia - </p>

<p>I can understand the EA decision driven by the unavailability of FinAid information. My father actually made the same decision as you, for the same reasons, on MIT at around the same time. And while it is better now I can understand why you’d prefer to get the bump from an SCEA school for that. </p>

<p>For interviewer - what can I say. Some of our interviewers go off the reservation. I don’t mean “deviate from the party line”, I mean “are completely incorrect.” We have a 92% 4 yr graduation rate. And as someone who is considering an MIT grad degree in the humanities I think they’re plenty strong. </p>

<p>We have over 3200 alumni interviewers. They don’t attend a centralized training. They all graduated at different times - we currently have people from the class of 2010 and the class of 1940 interviewing! They all had different experiences. For many of them MIT was a very different place back then. </p>

<p>So your picture of MIT is going to largely depend on what your EC says. It is painful to hear that the interview made your son not interested in applying. But it is also good feedback. And I will forward your suggestion to our office. </p>

<p>@lookatme -</p>

<p>I’m sorry. We try to defer->waitlist as few kids as possible for the reasons you describe. I wish I knew how to make the wait easier. </p>

<p>@nyknicks - </p>

<p>not sure, FinAid is a completely different department.</p>

20

<p>Chris, One common complaint I have heard from several people is that interviewers hide behind a laptop and don’t make eye contact during the interview. Is the report they have to submit so complicated that they can not wait until after the interview?</p>