<p>"Basically no one should be paying OOS tuition after M1 year. "
-in our state, the IS and OOS are the same after second year - it is much much higher than first 2. So, choosing private is not that much more expansive (in a big picutuer), since only first 2 years are cheaper at the State Public.<br>
One more notion. No Medical student is working (as far as I know, they cannot afford it timewise), while in UG, many work although they do not contribute much in taxes (if any at all) because of part time and low pay. However, some work full time and go to school (UG) part time. So, I can see that gaining resdency in another state for tuition purposes might be feasible at some places. However, since Med. Students do not contribute anyhow under any circumstances to the state taxes, I personally do not see how it could be justified that “be paying OOS tuition after M1 year”, while families of IS students are paying state taxes (at least most of them).</p>
<p>Congrats to all on all the IIs. Kal123, my D is going to many of the same places as your S. Today II #7 came through. Her top choice!</p>
<p>UCSF still permits changing residency and getting IS tuition after a year.</p>
<p>OHSU, UColorado-D & UDub do not (although UDub does have a handful of OOS waivers); not sure about UVA.</p>
<p>^UVA does not offer IS tuition to OOS kids. I am told that it is possible to get IS tuition UMD, but I have not known anyone getting it. I believe, the UMDNJ schools from our state offer that too.</p>
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<p>Congrats! Hopefully, they both get acceptances too.</p>
<p>
I am not at all surprised that they got into that situation considering that they are, perhaps, the most aggressive rolling admissions school. They haven’t changed their ways. They have already filled >70% of their interview spots already and it is not even the end of September. I can’t believe those kids took that deal! I wouldn’t, because even assuming its a 4 year deal, its not even 15% (~$22k discount at 10% of $56k/year) of the potential lost earnings for a year.</p>
<p>Today, JHU SOM goofed up a bit and sent a post-interview survey email to everybody! I am pretty sure there were quite a few skipped heartbeats today :D</p>
<p>Quote from MiamiDAP:
‘in our state, the IS and OOS are the same after second year’</p>
<p>Does this apply to TX and NY public medical schools? I remembered that you guys talked about there are many public medical schools in these two states. </p>
<p>I checked the Ohio State tuition.
med1 med2 med3 med4
Ohio Resident Total 48,534 46,809 67,299 64,608
Non-Resident Total 65,990 64,467 93,786 91,095</p>
<p>after the 2nd year, pay IS tuition saves a lot! But why med3 & med4 costs so much more? I thought the students are doing clinical.</p>
<p>I checked John Hopkins medical school tuition. for 4 years, they are very close, about $70k-$76K.</p>
<p>Those numbers are COA, not just tuition.</p>
<p>Could be lots of reasons why it’s higher:</p>
<p>3rd year goes for 12 months instead of 9. 4th year usually includes multiple away rotations. Med schools pay a stipend/fee to the receiving hospital for each away rotation.</p>
<p>Students may be rotating out to clinical sites that are not in Columbus and will have to pay for short term housing at those sites while still maintaining their Columbus residence.</p>
<p>The COA may also include the cost of STEP 2 CS and CK. CS is only offered in 5 locations in the US so students almost always have to travel to take it.</p>
<p>And don’t forget the med school need to PAY the doctors who train and supervise students during clinical rotations. Those docs don’t do it out the goodness of their hearts.</p>
<p>Private med schools do what’s call cost leveling–charging a higher upfront fee to subsidize the later higher costs.</p>
<p>Thanks for the detail explanations, WOWM. </p>
<p>I checked Ohio State website about how to qualify as a resident of Ohio for tuition purposes (medical school):</p>
<p>Financially Dependent Students: A student, who their parent or legal guardian has lived in Ohio for the previous twelve consecutive months, filed Ohio Income Tax Return for the most recent tax year and has all of their state specific documents from Ohio, including but not limited to; driver’s license or state ID, voter registration, and vehicle registration.</p>
<p>Financially Independent Students
- A student who has been living in Ohio for at least twelve consecutive months immediately preceding the term for which he or she is applying (this is known as their twelve month review period); AND
- A student who has not left the state of Ohio for more than two consecutive weeks or thirty days total throughout their twelve month review period; AND
- A student who has been financially self-sustaining throughout their twelve month review period; AND
- A student who has changed all of his or her state specific documents to Ohio, including but not limited to; driver’s license or state ID, voter registration, and vehicle registration.</p>
<p>I don’t see how a OOS MD student can be IS. I thought these rules are about the same in every public school for undergrad.</p>
<p>Maybe he declares as a financially independent student because he gets the loan on his own? But if the family still pays part of COA, then he cannot!</p>
<p>I do not understand.</p>
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</p>
<p>No, the rules are not the same for all publics, take a look at my earlier post #883 for examples. In general, colleges are more strict for UG than for med school. While many publics previously let grad/professional school students become IS after a year, many have changed their rules due to fiscal constraints. </p>
<p>An example of this is UDub. A couple of years ago they changed their policy and now if you apply as OOR, then you are OOR for the remainder of your time in med school. It looks like it’s the same way for OH, you need to establish IS residency first, before you apply.</p>
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The enforcement of these rules is stricter for UG. Also, some schools use the IS tuition to attract high caliber OOS UG students. </p>
<p>Medical education is leaving the doctors with huge debt by the time of graduation. With the downward pressure on compensation, if the escalation in cost of attendance continues at the current rate, I am not sure how its all going to work out. A lot of medical schools do the rhetoric and do nothing to address the situation. Public schools, being sensitive to the taxpayer sentiments (read MiamiDAP’s post above), set OOS tuitions higher. Some of them, like the ones discussed on this thread, find ways to bend the rules a bit. My state schools in NJ don’t admit a whole lot of OOS students. However, they do allow Is tuition after first year for those admitted and I don’t have any issues with that.</p>
<p>The cost of educating a doctor is astonishing. Even at private schools (or OOS publics with high OOS differentials), tuition does not cover the entire cost. </p>
<p>There are a number of scholarly articles about the exact cost, and the estimates range between $72,000 and $93,000 per year per med student for instruction only. (Costs are in 2006 $$ and do not include infrastructure items like classrooms, labs and libraries.)</p>
<p>This number jives with what the Dean of the Med School told D1’s class during orientation–that the state is investing almost a half of a million dollars in each and every one of them over the course of their education.</p>
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<p>Also jives with the fact that the dean of my school’s graduate school said MSTP students are a million dollar investment each (shared between federal govt and school).</p>
<p>"the state is investing almost a half of a million dollars in each and every one of them over the course of their education. "</p>
<p>Wow, this is truly an incredible amount. I thought we parents ( or the students themselves ) are paying an enormous amount in tuition, especially in some of the private medical schools.</p>
<p>We need to bring down the costs of medical education and the cost of going to a doctor quickly; Already this is getting out of hand. Doctors need to get paid without too much hassle from Insurance companies; Payout for malpractice lawsuits should be limited and frivolous lawsuits should be thrown out. Everyone should be able to afford at least minimum coverage, although those paying bigger premiums can get better care.</p>
<p>Too many things are wrong with the way medicine is practiced in the USA.</p>
<p>There are a bunch initatives that have been tried to reduce the cost of educating med student–things like small group learning (which originally was introduced as a cost-saving measure), condensed curricula that reduce med school to 3 years, combined residency-fellowship programs that shave a year off the training period for surgical specialties, self-paced computerized didactic instruction.</p>
<p>Some have worked. Some haven’t. Some it’s too soon to tell.</p>
<p>Medical education is a work in progress.</p>
<p>BTW, it the clinical training that is the most expensive portion of med school. I was shocked to learn the even with Medicare support, hospitals & clinics actually lose money on every PGY1 they train.</p>
<p>
And it appears that the trainees are expected to work very long time, and sometimes odd hours. An example is that, DS, as an MS3, needs to work all night today. And this is a Saturday night. I heard residents would work even harder than MS3s. (I heard there is actually a room with beds in the hospital for residents, but not for med school students.)</p>
<p>I was sick not long ago and one of the physicians who took care of me told me that one main reason why the hospital works the residents so hard is that it needs to recoup the cost, i.e., in order to save the money, they need to use as few residents as they can and make use of every minute of every resident’s waking hours. When he said this, I could sense at least some of his resentment of how he was treated by the hospital a decade ago. Another doctor (surgeon) said that just because he was young, he could take it. (Somehow he was graduated from a 6-year BS/MD program that still existed back then so he got through this rough period while he was still quite young.) This is the opinion of two physicians. and both are not very old, like 35 to 40.) He also told me that for several years after his residency, he took a second job (mostly grave yard shifts) in the hospital in order to pay off his debt sooner. He was graduated from a public med school in midwest.</p>
<p><a href=“I%20heard%20there%20is%20actually%20a%20room%20with%20beds%20in%20the%20hospital%20for%20residents,%20but%20not%20for%20med%20school%20students.”>quote</a>
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There is. Med students can use it too, if they have in-house night call, but residents get priority on the beds.</p>
<p>“I checked the Ohio State tuition.
med1 med2 med3 med4
Ohio Resident Total 48,534 46,809 67,299 64,608”
-Frankly, I did not check anything in a past couple years (D. is MS3)
In this case, OH Publics appear to be much more expansive than privates even for IS.</p>
<p>In regard to post #895. D. has ruled out surgery long time ago. Whatever whe predicted for surgery, became evident during her rotation. Now, she feel passionate about the fact that she does NOT fit into environment that exist in surgery, not even close. It is not just hours, it is the way requests/requirements are communicated. She is not (never has been) up to this type of communication and as a person completed disagree that perfection requires these ways. the way of human interactions are the most important for her and she would never give up her standards for anything at all. In her case, hours and intensity are not even a top priority. The top has always been the social side, which is always there in any work environment.
Another concern is debt. As a parent, I could not imagine my kid having so much debt after such a hard work as Med. School. We will continue doing whatever possbile to avoid it. However, it is not entirely up to us, we can only prey that we have our jobs tomorrow. I have talked to several parents who are MDs themselves and currently have children in Med. School. The debt is a major concern. Nobody cared which Med. Schools their kids would attend, nobody cared about presitge. They made sure that kids do not have debt, they did not want kids to have their experiences.</p>
<p>My son got another interview invite today, his 8th. This one is from Rutgers RWJ (formerly UMDNJ RWJ), our state school. </p>
<p>So far, he has accepted all the invites. I think, it’s no longer practical for him to accept every invite. Leaving the costs aside, the missed classes are accumulating and any further might start hurting his grades. </p>
<p>He will have completed 4 interviews before Oct 15th. It would make it a lot easier to plan the rest, if he ends up with an acceptance or two on Oct 15th.</p>
<p>This is where my D is also. She will have completed 5 before October 15th and a swing through her home state in early November. She just wants to know already!!! The waiting is the hardest part. Good luck to everyone interviewing.</p>