Thirty years ago, Rice was rejecting NM Finalists so you were pretty accomplished. 
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Or my college advisor was bluffing a little.
Not sure why schools are so interested in NMF status. The elite schools, at least, donāt really value it very much these daysā¦
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Back then, Rice cared and gave a bit of merit money if you were NMF. However, as a recruiter of NMFs at U of Houston with a full ride offer, I was surprised that the Owls turned down some NMFs. Fast forward to present times, I donāt think they care much about National Merit designations. A strong test score is present in your SAT or ACT but they also encourage test optional applicants. Diverse, talented, inquisitive.
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FSU changed their admissions policy this week. Prior to last week if you applied by Nov. 1st priority deadline to Fall and did not get accepted they would automatically look at you for Summer.
Now they look at term requested and if not accepted you get deferred. or declined.
They also added a waitlist from regular decisions for applications after Nov 1st
The same Email stated applications were up 103 percent over last year.
Admissions has clarified they are 103% of last years number
so a 3% increase.
People in some other forms were freaking out at their kids chances with the changes and the miswording in the email stating apps were up 103% over last year.
Thats the latest i have heard
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Found the original Email in another group
They are accepting a smaller Freshman class and expecting stats to rise
Last year GPA 4.2-4.6ā¦ 4.0 scale with one bonus point added for AP IB DE AICE and .5 bonus point for Honors Core GPA
Test scores were down last year SAT 1250-1400 ACT 28-32
All above 25-75 percentile
Thank you for helping us set another record for applications received by our November 1st priority deadline. We are up 103% in applications received compared to last year! We are very grateful for the ever-growing interest in Florida State, but the large increases in applications over the last few years have made yield prediction very challenging. After thoughtful consideration, we felt it was necessary to make a few changes to our current admissions processes to help us meet our enrollment goal of 6,200 first-year students.
Important Changes effective Summer and Fall 2022:
Students will initially only be considered for the term they have listed on their application, summer or fall terms. Historically, we used to automatically consider students who did not meet our fall accepted student profile for the summer term. The yield for the summer offers fluctuated widely from year to year and largely contributed to the difficulties of predicting the size of our first-year class. As a result, we will no longer automatically consider fall applicants for the summer term. We are adding a deferral decision.
For the students who applied for the November 1st priority application deadline, we are dropping the summer offer and adding a deferral decision to the decisions released on February 17th. The three possible decisions are now:
Admit
Deferral
Denial
For the students who applied for the March 1st Regular application deadline AND those that were deferred from the November 1st priority application group, we will release decisions in early April. A waitlist option has been added to this group of decisions, so the five possible decisions are now:
Admit
Seminole Pathways
Waitlist
Spring Transfer Pathway
Denial
How does this impact your students? We plan on sending an email to all our summer and fall applicants and their family members explaining the changes in our admissions processes. All applicants will be provided with an opportunity to change the term on their application. If an applicant does not want to make a change, no further action is needed. Information on our admitted student profile for the fall and summer terms can be found on the Decision FAQ. Please note that since we will be enrolling a smaller class this year, the summer and fall profiles may be higher than in previous years. Our summer term begins June 20th and ends July 29th. Students that start in the summer automatically continue into the fall term beginning August 22nd. Those students that wish to make a term change to summer will be able to do so by logging in to their Application Status Check and completing an Application Change Form. The deadline to complete the Application Change Form will be December 8th.
I know changing existing admissions processes at this point in the admissions cycle is less than ideal. I hope this advance notice will give you and your students time to process these changes and to make any necessary updates to existing applications. Just like last year, we will be hosting a counselor event on the morning of February 17th where we will review the admissions decisions being released later that day. You can register for this event at
So let me tackle a few things here - sorry my usual longwindedness. This one is really long but I loaded with data.
- Iām not a Bama homer.
Yes, my son goes there for mechanical engineering. Iām proud of him of course. But as Iāve said 100 times, I wish he was at Purdue where he was accepted with a $10K scholarship. My wallet does appreciate he goes to Bama (saving me $80K over four years vs. Purdue and even more vs. WUSTL which is why I did not let him apply ED). It turns out the education at Bama is rigorous. This top notch HS student had to withdraw from two classes (now in his 5th semester). Every time I hear @momofboiler1 gush about Purdue, Iām jealous.
Perhaps it is my values as was mentioned in ridicule of me- hence I didnāt let him apply ED and going back to grad school, I chose ASU which paid me to attend vs. UT Austin (ranked 17th or so) and Indiana - which in 1996 was #6 or 7 in BW. These two would have cost me handsomely from an out of pocket.
- College Confidential is an open forum and everyone is free to express their opinion. Youāre free to agree or disagree with anyone - and I do so regularly. What I donāt do is directly insult the person as some like to do. People continue to take shots at me - and thatās fine. But itās wrong - if you disagree, say so without calling someone a buffoon. And thanks to the person who gave me a thumbs up before, the 4 people who gave me a thumbs down (I never see that on my menu so I have no idea how you do that) and to the two individuals that messaged me privately to say they agreed - even though again, while I agree with much of what I wrote, I sas being tongue in cheek because as consumers, weāre all allowed to spend as we wish.
I was not trying to be crass. I appreciate everyoneās opinion - and thatās much of what this is because not a single one of us is the jury for these students. Many act like they are but none of us 100% truly know. We do the best we can - as individuals. Some offer opinions with no data. Others want data. Each of us is allowed to provide guidance however we want. As for my humor (or lack thereof), we all donāt know one another and tone is hard to determine on messaging. But itās my opinion that not everyone is informed about college selection. If youāre on the CC, then youāre interested but a small percentage of parents/students use resources like this and the reality is many donāt know about the college admission process.
Look how many California residents apply to UC and CSU and nothing else. Yet you have a school like Arizona, very close, where some that donāt get into their top choices could attend, many for dirt cheap. They just assume that only public CA schools can meet their budget when thatās not true. Itās no different than in TN (where I live), kids, even valedictorians with great scores and overall profiles, are pre-programmed to apply to UTK and Bama when they have a ton of other options - both public and private.
It is true, and itās up to each family to make the determination, that many people spend $80K a year that neednāt. Perhaps the education is better or they perceive itās better. And thatās their right. I"m sure we all remember a year or two ago where people were paying a lot more than $80Kā¦i.e. bribesā¦to get their kids into schools ranging from Yale to USC to Wake Forest. On the flipside, many have made the decision to forgo the Ivys or other top schools and attend a public Honors program - whether it be ASU, U of SC, Clemson, Rutgers, KU or many of the highly rated Honors programs out there.
So how many are actually paying full pop? I looked at a few schools with no merit aid to try and find out.
This is from the Common Data Set for 2020-21 except for Princeton (2019/20) and Franklin & Marshall and Bowdoing which I grabbed from their websites:
Bowdoin show 48% of class of 2025 received $54K - so the other 52% paid full pop.
Cal Tech = 459/901 received aid - 51% receive aid.
Franklin & Marshall - 63% receive aid.
Gtown - 2456 /6609 = 37% receive aid.
Princeton = 3289 / 5328 (62%) in 2019/20 and the average recipient pays only $11,990 a year for tuition, room, & board.
Tufts - 2200 / 6008 = 37%.
So itās interesting to me that two high profile schools Gtown and Tufts - award aid to a lower percentage of students than a lower profile schoo like F&M. Perhaps this means that those who can afford and are willing to pay for āprestigeā do so. It could also be that folks are unaware that - if you go to F&M full pop (37%), that you might be able to go to nearby and well respected Gettysburg or Dickinson for thousands less with merit aid. I donāt know the reasons but I do think some donāt understand the multitude of scholarship opportunity out there for all students - and thatās one of the great assets the CC community provides. I also think and weāve all read this before - that many donāt strategize based on cost even though they acknowledge itās important to them - and ultimately they may end up with only unaffordable schools. Weāve all responded to OPs looking for scholarship money yet they say they wonāt qualify for need based aid and they only apply to need based aid only schools (i.e. the prestigious names).
@mtmind - thanks for validating the FSU 2026 #s and explaining them. I imagine theyāll see a decent rise - but I guess weāll find out after all the reporting is in. One would assume most would meet the priority deadline because chances are greatly reduced thereafter.
Also, I was not ākindaā equivocating Bama to UCLA. Each school has its own strengths. To me, an OOS student applying to a UC or Gtown, these folks have to be committed because these schools have their own application including essays and LORs (Gtown, not the UCs). Itās a lot of extra work beyond the Common App. But letās be honest - there are Ivy level kids at probably most every flagship - and yes, kids choose schools for a lot of reasons including academics, costs, location, and even football. My daughter chose her school - which has less pedigree - in part because they Dean reached out by phone and she was placed into two small Honors cohorts which have provided a lot of enrichment. That sheās saving me $60K a year over the top 10 LAC she was admitted to is a bonusā¦a big bonus because it adds up over the 4 years + the earnings it will grow to.
Finally, back to Bama, and this is from their dataset on their website
ACT scores were
26.6 in 2016
27.1 in 2017
27 in 2018
26.9 in 2019
27.1 in 2020
26.1 in 2021.
While the ACTs were down, their NMFs were 291 in 2021 vs. 221 that entered in 2020 and 256 in 2019. To see their strategy shift, it was 134 in 2017. I can not find a current total by school - the last year was 2017 and only UCB was represented as a Ca Public. Bama was #5 that year. It doesnāt mean itās better - we all know - they paid for talent!! And it helps. In fact, one could argue no one school is better than another. It may have a better ranking - but each student is different and hopefully the schools each attends is the ābest for them.ā
I also found admission data and it surprises me because in many publications and even the school newspaper, it shows a 53% acceptance rate from the other year. But that is not in the Bama database - 78% in 2016, 80% in 2017, 81% in 2019, 82% in 2019, 80% in 2020 and 79% in 2021. So yes, itās easier to get into but at the same time, thereās a lot of wonderful schools that are as well - Pitt, Arizona, I read a ton of great things about engineering on the CC about Iowa State, and even Purdue as an overall school and yet 67% were admitted in 2020/21.
@ucbalumnus , according to the Bama provided data table, in the Fall of this year 74% are white - minimally different than your # but still different. 11% are black, 6% hispanic, and only 1.5% are Asian.
@Catcherinthetoast and @mtmind - per the Bama CDS (attached) page 11, the average GPA is 3.82 in HS with 42% a 4.0 or above and 18% at 3.75-3.99. Another 14% are 3.5-3.74. So thatās 74% with a 3.5 - and depending on their ACT score, thereās big money (for the 58% that are OOS). $15K or near half for a 29, $24K for a 30-31 and $28K for 32+ā¦they donāt superscore. But you can earn more - my daughter got the $24K bucket but did their scholarship app and got another $4K for $28K total. Since tuition and fees are about $31K, you can see the savings if youāre in that $28K bucket. btw - you know how a lot of schools - Purdue, MN and Iām sure many more charge a professional school fee for engineering. Well at Bama - if you have a 30 ACT, engineers dontā get charged - they get another $2.5K scholarship - so that same kid with a 32ACT is getting $30.5K vs. $31K.
I have no idea how the $$ work out for them as a business - but Iām sure this is a reason the school is on the radar in all parts of the country. That, football, and the fact that they have a ton of recruiters. Iām not a homer - Iām simply showing why so many are applying and even attending - and yes, vs. top private or public schools.
Anyway, I donāt know Alabamaās strategy - but the # of applicants is growing, the school is growing, and I assume thatās part of their strategy. They recruit nationally - and based on their reach to the populous states (CA, TX, NY, NY, Illinois, itās working). If they wanted stronger students on the lower end, I suppose they would just admit less - but obviously theyāve got a plan and are executing - as Iām sure a lot of schools are. Perhaps those students are āpayingā for those at the top.
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College Navigator #s appear different (slightly) than the schoolās own #s. That said, there is speculation that Bama and some of the more aggressive public schools are pursuing āwhiteā and āwealthyā areas - and the #s may reflect that.
The University of Alabama made 3,957 visits to high schools outside of Alabama in 2017. Most of the trips were concentrated in wealthy, predominantly white communities.
Iāve mentioned b4 but my son interned at an automotive OEM this summer. His two roomies were from Ga Tech. Heās already been invited back and neither of the other two have. I met them when I picked him up at the conclusion of the internship (the company gives interns a car which they turn in on the last day so kids need a ride home)ā¦the two GA Tech students, both nice kids, but definitely felt like they were ābetterā than the asisgnments they were given, etc. One still has to interview - Yale or Ga Tech can get you in the door, but if you donāt come off properly face to faceā¦or perhaps after a 3 month internship, what you accomplished will and should outweigh where you went to school.
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Would āfanboyā be more appropriate? 
Look, thereās nothing wrong with admitting youāre a āhomerā for Alabama. Itās OK. Iām a homer for my kidās schools too, though I at least attempt a little impartiality. Have you read the UChicago threads? 
That can be said about a lot of colleges. Can we move on from Alabama? Whatās that song from the movie Frozen? 
BTW, D21ās college isnāt even nationally ranked. And now towards the end of her 1st Quarter of freshman year, she has a wonderful major-related job thatās local to school. Thereās lots of internships and jobs are available out there for college students right now, just have to āpound the pavement.ā You donāt have to attend an āeliteā (academic and/or football) school.
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That page references this report: Dropbox - joyce_report_rotated.pdf - Simplify your life
However, it is not surprising that public universitiesā out-of-state recruiting visits focus on high schools in wealthier areas, where students and parents are more able and willing to pay out-of-state tuition with less or no financial aid that is typical of public universities.
Alabama does not seem to be that much of an outlier in out-of-state recruiting visits by public universities. Indeed, its visited out-of-state public high schools were 59.9% White, only slightly higher than the 56.8% White of non-visited out-of-state public schools in the same states (Table 3). Its in-state public high school visits were to schools that were 64.3% White, versus 59.8% White for non-visited ones (Table 6). But all of these numbers are lower than the 74% or 77% White enrollment, suggesting that it has difficulty attracting non-White students even from high schools it makes recruiting visits to.
Not a fanboy - hence I loaded with data. Again, I wish my kid was saying boiler up - but mom was 6.5 hours away vs. 3.5 and I think that played a part.
I agree thereās a lot of great schools - in fact most are great.
If sheās got an internship as a Freshman, thatās awesome - very hard to do as a first year.
Whatās her major if you donāt mind me asking?
The loading of your post with data doesnāt sway me, but maybe it does for others.
Itās just part of the schoolās philosophy, which is to get students doing whatās involved in their majors. If that makes any sense.
Not anything related to CS or engineering. But in the realm of science.
As I said, I donāt know where @Catcherinthetoast got that graphic, but the actual CDS numbers are obviously a better source. Looks to me like it was based on a CDS from a few years ago, but it didnāt even get that quite right.
As for all the rest, I stand by what I wrote, meant no offense, and beyond that there is no need to rehash it.
Iām glad both your son and daughter found good fits.
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I meant swaying anyone reading this thread in regards to you being a homer or not.
Sorry for any confusion but the numbers I posted came from several sources yielded from a Google search of āUniversity of Alabama Acceptance Rateā. These were the first half dozen linksā¦
In spite of searching I could not find anything recent directly from the school which seemed a bit odd.
Top 3 āHomersā of all timeā¦
1-
2-
3- TBD 
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geez, I thought I got longwinded sometimes!!!
/said very tongue in cheek.
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Yes I believe Bama admits low stat wealthy kids to help pay for the NM program. Given the wide range of applicantsā stats (23-31 ACT) there seems to be a large stratification. Your son was just below NM status but appeared equally qualified with a scholarship to Purdue engineering. Do some feel jealous of the status bestowed to NM recipients when theyāre performing better academically? Thatās a reason I didnāt want my daughter applying to OU but theyāve pulled back a bit on their NM award and numbers have plummeted. Many of the lost NMs may be at Bama now.
Regarding Purdueās 67% overall admit rate, you know that itās much lower for engineering which is its bell cow program. Sort of like Indiana and its business program. However, overall both are ranked in the top 70 nationally and rising.
Regarding FSU, wow, they are really moving up (#55) and feeling a tinge of growing pains. My kid wants the First Year Abroad program to get in state tuition so hopefully he is either admitted to fall or put in that alternate category above denied. With the high ranking and more applications, hopefully recruiters and grad schools are noticing.
Reindeers are better then people?
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Do you want to build a snowman? (If so donāt go to Alabama)
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