24 yr. old Freshman Pre-Law

Graduate School Law School
1

<p>I originally posted this in the admissions forum and was advised to post in the Parents Form which i did, then I found the law forum and figured this was the best choice:</p>

<p>My brother is turning 24 this August and has never really been on the right track school wise. After high school he tried his hand at a community college and ended up dropping out. Now he’s older and says he’s serious about school and wants to be a lawyer.</p>

<p>He plans to start at either a community college or a local university (with low admission standards), then he aspires to transfer to the University of Illinois at Chicago (though he says UIC this may change) to major in political science.</p>

<p>I wanted to know:</p>

<li><p>Will he have to take the SAT’s to transfer (he can’t remember if he ever took them in the first place)? Looking at UIC’s website they only mention a min. GPA and never mention SAT’s.</p></li>
<li><p>Any advice for someone who is embarking on their college career and intending to head to law school a little later in their life?</p></li>
<li><p>I’ve also told him he could probably finish school in 3 years. I’m not sure if this is the best route or if he should focus on internships during his summers (however I’m worried the intern hosts might want the traditional age student) or if he should do both school and inter.</p></li>
<li><p>I’ve heard it’s a good idea to take a gap year. Would that be advisable considering my brother is already older. I figured the gap year was to show you’re mature and resolute in your decision not just some senior who is going to law school as the “next step.”</p></li>
<li><p>He has his eyes on University of Chicago and Northwestern. Seeing as these are the cream of the crop Law Schools any advice for him when it comes to admissions?</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>1) Your brother does not remember taking the SAT? Then he probably didn't take it. Anyways, UIC is one of those colleges that looks at the ACT rather than the SAT. 97% of UIC students submitted the ACT which leads me to believe UIC doesn't even accept the SAT.</p>

<p>2) Your brother has a lot of catching up to do, and it's not because of his age. In fact, many LS students are in their late 20's. His real struggle lies with his committment to education. My advice: completely change lifestlye. The fact you are relaying for him on this website does not speak well on his behalf. </p>

<p>3) You're worrying about things that, in the cotenxt of your brother's situation, are quite trivial. First of all, getting an internship, getting into law school, and getting in to UIC is all very difficult in itself. First and foremost, your brother needs to find the money for college, then go to college and do amazingly well. (as in 4.0 GPA) When he actually has some credentials, then start worrying about getting an internship.</p>

<p>4) Don't worry about the gap year. It's really not that important, the gap year or his age. Worry about getting an amazingly high GPA and LSAT -- these two things DO matter.</p>

<p>5) He must do amazingly well on his LSAT to even have a chance. As in, a 170 or higher. Furthermore, he must have a perfect GPA, 4.0 or 3.9. If he doesn't have these things, there is no way in hell he going to get into NW or UChicago law school.</p>

<p>Tell your brother to prove me wrong. Because, unless he's some intellectual giant who was bored with community college and high school who has suddenly reformed his ways and also has finacial backing, I see no way in hell he is going to get into UIC much less get into Law School! </p>

<p>Students that go to NW and UChicago Law Schools didn't suddenly decide one day, "hey I want to go to Law School for the hell of it." These are people whose lives revolve around education. They generally have a passion for the law. They have been educated at some of the best universities in the world and have done extremely well at them. In effect, they are people with opposite outlooks on life as your brother seems to have.</p>

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<p>Why are you saying a 3.9 or 4.0 GPA? </p>

<p>UChicago's median is a 3.64 GPA and I think Northwestern's is around a 3.7</p>

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<p>Granted, I exaggerated a little bit and I apologize for that. </p>

<p>Although, is not a 3.64 at say, UChicago undergrad, looked upon more favorably by LS admission officers than a 3.64 at UIC?</p>

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<p>Blaze991: I understand it will take a lot for him to get into these schools and excel however, I wanted to do all that I can to help him with the situation and not make it seem as if all odds are against him.
He certainly has not been on the right track acedemia wise however, if he's ready to settle down and do all it takes I'm going to do my best to help him since he has no idea where to start.
Also dcfca and Blaze I've shown him the USNews stats of the two law schools and I totally understand how hard it is to get in to. I figure it's good he's seeing where to target his GPA now and is motivated to reach for these top schools, even if he doesn't make it he still will end up in a good school.</p>

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<p>I am all too curious why your brother isn't the one starting the thread? I understan you want to help. But what's he doing? You cannot attend class and take exams for him (well you could attend class, but that would leave a lot to be desired.)</p>

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<p>My brother is doing a lot to get back into school right now and he doesn't know about CC. I thought it would be a good idea to post and see some honest responses.
I honestly woudn't want him to post on here in order to keep him as motivated as possible. I'd rather hear the people who post stuff like, "he'll never make it" than for him to be seeking out opinions and run into these things. I think he already hears enough negativity from everyone else as it is.</p>

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<p>Fair enough. But he is 24 y.o., so trying to isolate him from the real world is unrealistic. It may even be good for him to face some negativity; being told "no, you can't do it" actually motivates a lot of people.</p>

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<p>
[QUOTE]
I think he already hears enough negativity from everyone else as it is.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>welcome to the real world...</p>

<p>your brother will never survive with that kind of work ethic...</p>

<p>he'll need to pull at least a 3.8 at a community college to even be considered</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
Why are you saying a 3.9 or 4.0 GPA? </p>

<p>UChicago's median is a 3.64 GPA and I think Northwestern's is around a 3.7

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>community college = grade inflation...your brother will have to transfer in with at LEAST a 3.8 or 3.9 CUMULATIVE...the admissions people know this...a 3.8 or 3.9 at a community college is much different from a 3.8 or 3.9 at MIT for example...</p>

<p>colleges will also take into account ANY college course work he has completed in the past (meaning when he was goofing around and decided to drop out...this could be a killer)...</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
Students that go to NW and UChicago Law Schools didn't suddenly decide one day, "hey I want to go to Law School for the hell of it." These are people whose lives revolve around education. They generally have a passion for the law. They have been educated at some of the best universities in the world and have done extremely well at them. In effect, they are people with opposite outlooks on life as your brother seems to have.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>couldn't have said it any better...</p>

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<p>Jesus Christo, ever heard of the expression 'it's never too late..." or, "better late than never'? this lady is just asking some mere, objective, UN-offensive questions, and she's been getting nothing but fire and farts from all of you guys. He is only 24, this is a young age. He can get into a good school if he works his arse off in the next years. so i think you guys should stop discouraging and start informing on what he can do as of now (what's the use of pinpointing all his academic screw-ups, this is a given (geometry- remember proofs?) we need to find the answers now. So be cool about this and just help out. peace.</p>

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<p>I'm not discouraging anyone... it's just a hard dose of reality. What I said holds true. He's going to need to pull at LEAST a 3.8 or 3.9 cumulative gpa to even be considered...a very tough feat... as I said before, especially if his gpa was bad the first time he dropped out. Colleges will look at all college coursework taken...his past could come back to haunt him regardless of what he does when he goes back to school. It's a very REAL scenario...</p>

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<p>I'm actually in a similar situation. I was never a great student in high school -- immaturity, wrong crowd -- and I went on to a community college which I dropped out of after a year-and-a-half. At that point, I had a serious alcohol problem and was a wreck personally. Since then, I have turned my life around dramatically. I quit drinking (two-and-a-half years sober) and converted from agnosticism to Catholicism, becoming enthralled with philosophy, theology, and classics on my own. I felt and feel that God is calling me to enter university, either for subsequent seminary, graduate, or law school. In January of this year, I answered the call and entered a five-month academic bridging program at the University of Toronto, finished with the second-highest grade in a class of 30, and have been officially admitted into U of T for full-time undergraduate studies beginning in the fall. I'm 25. My confidence is through the roof, and come hell or high water, I am kicking a$$ academically. </p>

<p>I think it just takes some people a longer time to mature, to grow up. My high school GPA is most certainly NOT an accurate reflection of my intellectual/academic capabilities. Thankfully, my university recognizes this and gives people a second chance.</p>

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<p>Thank you Fides et Ratio!!! That was a very nice and inspirational post. I know you are going to go on and do amazing things in your life!
It's nice to see someone who understands that at different points in your life you may have not been mature enough to handle school but if you're ready and you buckle down you can do anything you put your mind to.
Scom and Blaze991: try to be a little more optimistic and less harsh. We all know these schools are difficult to get into but it's not impossible. My brother is very intelligent and his grades have yet to reflect his latent potential.</p>

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<p>Hi penny,</p>

<p>I think what the others are trying to get at is that it's probably too early to be thinking about law schools like that. It's best, perhaps, to do as well as he can for a couple years in school. Once we've seen him actually performing at his best, the posters on this board will be in a better position to evaluate his chances at schools like Chicago.</p>

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<p>yeap, and its all about attitude</p>

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<p>bludevilmike: I understand the stance on thinking of such top tier law schools so earlier. However I'd rather he look at the top tier law schools and their admissions requirements and try to make his transcripts and potential LSAT scores match those than telling him not to even think about law school right now or to just look at the fourth tier ones only. Also I understand there really is no way to evaluate his chances at Uchicago and Nw without grades and scores, I was actually more curious to see if they would be less inclined to accept someone who bs'd a few years of there life away and then got back on track... but thank you for the information I can see your point of view as well.</p>

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<p>I wish that Hanna would post. As I recall, she dropped out of high school, later finished, went to Bryn Mawr, transferred to Harvard, and graduated from Harvard Law.</p>

<p>I do know many people who were simply too young, immature, or troubled to academically succeed at a young age but have nonetheless been excellent students in their old age.</p>

<p>Your brother's long-term plan sounds good. Go to CC, transfer into good school, apply to law school. He should take a gap year for the simple reason that schools will have his GPA from his senior year at college; most likely, that will be a good thing and another chance to evaluate him at a good school. Also, if his grades are steadily going up, he'll have a slight edge from having all of his grades on record.</p>

<p>I see no reason why a rational admissions officer would give equal weight to grades obtained at age 18 and grades obtained at age 25. Now, admissions people may not be rational, but anyone with half a brain can see that the person has gone through a lot and changed as a student. </p>

<p>I think that Northwestern would be more likely to take him if he puts together a good resume - they seem almost (refreshingly) anti-elite in terms of who they accept. </p>

<p>That brings me to another point, which you've probably seen a bit of: law is a horribly elite, snobby profession. There are some lawyer posters on this board who have very different philosophies, who have been wonderfully successful attornies; however, most of the profession is incredibly snotty. Remember how Harriet Miers, a woman who was a managing partner at a big law firm, was crucified for having attended SMU? Yeah, a lot of law is like that. Your brother doesn't fit the "elite preppy" profile, which may be hard on him. He'll have to search out the right legal markets.</p>

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<p>Of course, Harriet Miers had other issues, too.</p>

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<p>... such as? </p>

<p>Granted, there are many more qualified people than she. Most of my issue was that she was an extraordinarily accomplished woman - even your standard HLS grads will never be where she is - but was patronised into an oblivion, both as an intellectual and as someone lacking the strength to form her own opinions.</p>

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<p>Penny,</p>

<p>You should tell your brother to check around and see if his universities of interest have academic bridging programs, like U of T. Why go back to community college when you might be able to get into a top university through the back door right away (and for less money to boot)?</p>

<p>Just a thought. I wish your bro the best of luck.</p>