<p>Oh, yes, it has been so long since I actually registered somebody for a SAT! Like December of '09! (seems like a million years ago, but it wasn’t!) Not including the code like kathiep said. The older you get the less you remember! LOL… Gives us a lot to look forward to, doesn’t it???</p>
<p>How is everyone doing? My son has actually submitted a handful of applications now but still has another bunch to go. The first ones had essay’s he easily cut and pasted with just a little tweaking but the ones left - ugh! Another negative is that a couple of them need to be submitted soon for EA deadlines. Why don’t they just make this process easier? I kind of wish that they were due in the summer because it’s really hard for him to find the time for this stuff and school work.</p>
<p>Best of luck, Kathiep! Do you and he have favorites–and are they the same ones?</p>
<p>Our high schools guidance counselors (small, rural/suburban public) are wonderful people. I have found that they all care about the kids they serve, they work hard within the boundaries of their job description, they process required paperwork in a competent and timely manner and they listen to their students and the students’ parents. At our school they are also uniformly young, with 1-3 years’ experience. Finally, they all graduated with their Masters in counseling from a SUNY or one of two local private colleges.</p>
<p>Because they are new to the profession, they are relying a lot on what they learned from their own experience and what was taught in college. So what exactly does one study for a counseling degree? One local private college requires courses in “Career Counseling,” “Appraisal Process in School Counseling,” “Group Procedures in School Counseling,” “Working with Parents in Education” and so on. All useful courses, but none focusing on the wide range of issues and topics associated with college admissions.</p>
<p>Another local private university offers courses such as “Personality Theory and Abnormal Psychology in School Age Children,” “Tests, Measurements, and Appraisal or Assessment,” and “Social and Cultural Foundations in Counseling,” but again nothing specefic to college admissions. None of the SUNYs which awarded the MS or Certificate in Advanced Study in School Counseling offered any course in college counseling. All of these programs require an internship in a school guidance office, of course, so I suppose they get some exposure to college counseling in an experiential setting. If you are interning in a school with lousy college counseling one might question how valuable the experience is.</p>
<p>In have no idea what the course of study for certification as a school counselor looks like in other parts of the country, but in this part of NYS it is clear that college counseling takes a significant back seat to the many other – equally or more important – duties assigned to the typical high school guidance counselor. So if it appears to some CC posters that they know more about colleges and college admissions than their local HS GC, maybe that’s because they do.</p>
<p>I very much like his #1 choice, but am concerned about the cost and employment after graduation. The three that have co-ops or imbedded internships are also the biggest reaches. </p>
<p>What I’ve been preaching to son, and to myself, is that applications are step one, and decisions and where to actually go are very different things. One step at a time.</p>
<p>Kathiep, best of luck!
Hudson, I think your observation is very apt. I do think, though, that much of what is crucial in college counseling can be learned fairly quickly, such as during school vacations or department meetings. The basics–figuring out the importance to the student of size; cost; region; urban/suburban/rural; and possible major; ACT vs. SAT; mixing reaches; matches; safeties; plus where to find information about schools, is not very complex.</p>
<p>Hudson, I agree, I had to explain to son’s GC what “Score Choice” was!
Some of the kids’ friends come to me for advice! It’s like “Ask my Mom”… LOL.</p>
<p>yabeyabe2 – It is not very complex but it is time-consumming and information changes annually in some cases. </p>
<p>I don’t know how things work in New Jersey, but up here its like pulling teeth to get a guidance counselor to suggest colleges that might provide a good fit, let alone suggest a range of safeties, matches and raches. I don’t know if it is a legal issue, but our GCs will not provide the sort of educated opinion that you can get on CC or from a good college counselor (either private or employed at a school). I have also heard from some very experienced GCs that they just don’t know much about schools outside the NY/New England area.</p>
<p>Another problem is that travel time for visiting NACAC/NYSCAC conferences, college fairs and colleges is highly proscribed. Travel funds are getting even tighter with the down economy. I would also note that guidance counselors are considered part of the administration, and therefore work year-round, at some schools rather than faculty, and therefore have little “free time” over the summer.</p>
<p>Hudson, sorry, but I think I missed your point. You say “it is time-consumming and information changes annually in some cases.” I could not follow what “it” you were referring to.</p>
<p>Also, you mentioned guidance counselors “working year round” and “having little free time over the Summer”. What exactly do they do in the Summer and how much time does it take? As schools are not open, they are not dealing with questions from students or parents; intervening with troubled kids; writing college letters; meeting with teachers; or dealing with kids wanting to drop classes, etc? </p>
<p>You asked about NJ GC’s–I hear of some schools which provide excellent college guidance, but a vast majority which do not. Our town is highly taxed to support the schools and parents are extremely focused on college, yet the GCs do nothing more useful than point you to Naviance.</p>
<p>We have one GC who works over the summer for a few weeks in our HS. He has to deal with the scheduling (scheduling changes as well) for all high school students. The HS students signed up for classes in the spring, but the schedules are made up over the summer (ie: #of AP physics classes and times, who has a conflict with honors English and Sculpute II Art Class, etc.). Additionally Janie’s mother comes to the school and feels that Janie should be moved from a regular Algebra I to honors Algebra I and that gets sorted out. There is also the matter of making sure that the kiddo who failed freshman English is in a summer school program. They also get to write letters to universities as to why Joey received a “C” senior year in AP Government class. Oh and I forgot, they get to send transcripts to the new high schools for students moving out of the district, and they get to make a class schedule for the students moving into the school district. They are aslo there, btw, to send out early GC reports and transcripts for the “early bird special” (my own phrase for the special apps that will give an early decision to you if you complete the app. by July 15th, or Aug. 1, etc.) college applications.</p>
<p>yabeyabe2 – It = “what is most cucial in college counseling.” Maybe the basics can be learned relatively quickly just by reading a few books, visiting colleges and talking to college admissions officers, but to gain a reasonable depth of information – and to keep on top of changing information – takes time many of these GCs don’t have.</p>
<p>I am not entirely sure what these counselors do myself, but I’m sure a lot of it is exactly what northeastmom has described. They also seem to spend a lot of time working with the kids who are sent on to summer school, and considering that 34% of the sophomore class failed the geometry Regents exam last year that can involve a lot of kids.</p>
<p>One of the little known facts advertised to kids in my son’s school is visits with the admissions reps. In the fall there is someone from a college in the guidance office about three times a week. My son has met with a few of them starting last year and often he was the only one or just one of two. </p>
<p>Hey, hudsonvalley Mom, any opinions on Marist? We visited and did a tour but came away not knowing if it was on the list or not since we met no one from his major. Preppy? Suitcase school?</p>
<p>The level of activity NEmom describes–1 counselor for a few weeks–seems about right, and hardly an obstacle to that counselor, much less the rest of the department, doing some research.</p>
<p>I do not expect conselors to be experts on hundreds of colleges and he rest of what they need to know does not change much from year to year–once you have learned that students need to answer the basic questions I gave about, those questions stay the same year after year. For example, gaining some knowledge of the NY public colleges takes only a few hours. </p>
<p>Where many guidance departments go wrong is that they do not share knowledge and, accordingly, duplicate efforts and reinvent the wheel. For example, at your NY HS, if each counselor were charged with gaining some knowledge about 5 schools your kids frequently apply to and sharing it, you woul dhave a far mor eknowledgeable department.</p>
<p>Similarly, I bet a lot of kids at your HS are considering the same schools which the counselors and younger faculty attended–most GC’s ignore this valuable source of recent information.</p>
<p>Well yabeyabe, I don’t doubt that with time set aside to become modestly educated about college admissions and colleges that GCs couldn’t improve. In practice, however, our GCs seem to be little time in their work day to accomplish this. They do, of course, know about the SUNY system, and they receive regular updates regarding what is new in admissions, program offerings, etc. As I said, however, they have little knowledge of the world beyond our state colleges and the usual suspects in Massachusetts and Connecticut.</p>
<p>I agree with you on ways they could improve services. I’ve got quite a list of other things they could do to increase their value as college counselors. Problem is, I don’t don’t set their priorities. That is the job of the principal, superintendent and, ultimately, the school board. (Oh yeah, their bargaining unit has some say also).</p>
<p>BTW, Naviance? The last three local GC’s I asked about Naviance had never heard of it.</p>
<p>kathiep – I wouldn’t call Marist preppy in the traditional sense. Lots of middle to upper middle class suburban kids, many from the metro NYC area. Proximity to NYC and home does tend to draw a fair number of students off-campus during the weekends; Marist is about a mile from the Metro North station. Marist also has something of a reputation for off-campus partying, but I can’t say how true this is. Most of the students from our area who have attended Marist have been white, “sporty” B students who are interested in going into business or communications. Most have also been Catholic, although I do not believe there are formal ties between the school and RC Church anymore (I could be wrong, although their website is mute on this point).</p>
<p>I think that hudsonvalley’s description is accurate. If anyone tours Marist, stop and enjoy the view from the library! I know of a student who was of Asian decent and she was unhappy at Marist. She felt very uncomfortable and she did transfer to another school. At the time, she said that she did not see any other Asian students on campus. I was not aware of the off campus partying, but I think one would find that at most schools.</p>
<p>kathiep, the Marist kids I know like it–upper middle class, sports lovers wit B/B+ averages. I beleiv eit is no longer affiliated with the Catholic Church</p>
<p>Hudson, to affect change in how GCs function, parents I know have complained via PTAs to principals, with some success.</p>
<p>I had a head of guidance tellme that no parent should have reason to think a GC’s list of possible colleges should be any bettr han the parent’s. Obviously, we know our own kids best, but guidance departemnts with many years of knowledge; visits by admissions officers; feedback from kids and parents; etc, should be ashamed if they cannot add any value.</p>
<p>The sports angle is one of the things that is not a positive for son. He really doesn’t like any sports, not to play or watch. After a dinner conversation though he says he’s interested enough to apply and if he’s accepted, to visit. Their computer science and Information Science building is going through an upgrade and that’s his focus. We don’t have rail service where we are so catching the train would get him to NYC and then it’s an easy bus ride from there.</p>
<p>The views of the River were beautiful!</p>
<p>I believe they have an extensive partnership with IBM (which I think is why they are no longer Catholic). That is great for an IT-oriented student. IBM has major facilities nearby.</p>
<p>The river vistas are gorgeous–but note that frigid river air blasts through the campus in Winter.</p>
<p>I think I recall an avid poster from last year’s B thread had her son accepted there late (maybe off the waiting list) and he is there now. A look at the thread should uncover the name–I just remember it was a nice woman from NY state who posted frequently about Providence, Loyola MD and Endicott.</p>
<p>Had a friend whose son graduated from Marist, he enjoyed it! </p>
<p>We had been looking at it for one of our children but the FA part was not encouraging for us. A quick look at couple of websites & I can see it hasn’t gotten much better. </p>
<p>Average % of Need Met: saw 62%, 67%
% of Freshmen With Need Fully Met: 20.9%
Merit aid seems to average out about $7,000/year for all undergrads </p>
<p>A wonderful school & nice location, but if FA is a concern, Marist may not come through.</p>