<p>I agree with RVM that one issue is merit money. D was an A- student, with decent, though not stellar SAT scores. We applied to schools where she was in the top 25% of applicants. D got into all the schools that she applied to with very nice merit awards! Another consideration is if your son or d is planning on going on to grad/med/law school. they look very closely at gpa, so it will help if your student is at the top of the class!</p>
<p>This is THE BIGGEST question we have asked ourselves and will be asking ourselves. And we haven’t settled on an answer yet. But I will say that the maturing they do senior year tells them a lot. D has grown enormously this year, especially in her confidence level in “hard” classes and with “smart” people, and I think she leans a bit toward being better off at a more challenging place, where she can rise to the occasion. But what is difficult is that of course those are harder to get into, so she may not get the chance. I am grateful that she has several good choices where she is in the middle; I think she’s a little concerned about the safeties and being on top. But on the other hand, as a “mixed” student she has a higher appreciation for people who didn’t get all As in HS and tends to look at people a bit more holistically already.</p>
<p>She also has to get used to that idea, because she’s trying for very selective arts programs in schools where the academics are much less selective. She’ll kind of get both experiences at some of those places. I imagine it’s like that with other kinds of majors, too.</p>
<p>My son chose a school where he was in the top 20-25% of the applicant pool. I feel that it is an ideal situation for him. He certainly is never bored. He leads a very balanced college life. He has had times where he has felt the pressure of his academic work, but he does not feel that pressure daily. He has taken on some leadership roles outside of the classroom and he seems to be able to handle his classwork, outside responsibilities that he has taken on, a part time job, and has fun too. It seems to be a healthy mix and he is happy with his choice in schools.</p>
<p>About merit aid- My son was offered merit aid at every private university (he was accepted at all the private Us that he applied to), including his reach school. The reach school did offer somewhat less merit aid, but it was still a nice sized award and it was unexpected.</p>
<p>an interesting follow-up question to those students who entered college in the top 25% of the applicant pool would be “do you still feel that you are in the top 25% of the students who attend?”</p>
<p>College admissions is so bizarre; I truly believe that GPA’s are all over the board from thousands of high schools; Im wondering the following: Is a kid who is in the top (or bottom) 25% of applicants when applying truly in the top 25% of that class? do they feel that while they are sitting in their classrooms?</p>
<p>It’s terrific that merit award is given to these kids…but does it really translate into an “easier” college experience?</p>
<p>My older daughter was and is in this position; she still works her butt off, doesn’t get straight “A”'s, and has never in the last three years felt that she is necessarily at the top of her class per se…she has actually mentioned that there were a ton of kids at her school who were not at the top coming in but are brilliant kids (and in some ways, and some areas, stronger than she is)…and, no, she hasn’t felt that her school was necessarily an “easier” road even though by rankings, her school was considerably lower than the other schools she was accepted to…</p>
<p>dd still feels this way at OSU…but this quarter is afraid she will get Bs…was never straight As in high school but has all but one A so far in OSU honors. She is surprised at how selective OSU has become and thinks that all the top students who apply and get accepted don’t necessarily attend but use it for bragging rights. She always tells me that “there are a lot of dumb people here” and says many in her honors dorm with way more AP credits than she had (high school had block scheduling so max could take 4-5), were woefully unprepared for college in terms of study habits, paper writing and project preparation. GPA such a poor predictor of college academic success.</p>
<p>kinderny, You’ve brought up an excellent question, and one that is especially pertinent to our B students. Some of us have kids that did not do well in early years of HS and wrecked their GPA for the applying senior year, some of us have kids that do not test well, some may have kids that simply don’t work to their potential and are content to stay B students. I have three “kids” and all were or are B students, but all were classified that way for different reasons. </p>
<p>My daughter was a B student because she was happy with that until the second semester of her junior year and we started visiting colleges and the ones she like told us the GPA’s of accepted students. She ended her high school career by earning high honors and then continued at her small private LAC on the same high note, earning just shy of a 4.0 GPA. My second child did very well his first two years of HS and then became addicted to World of War Craft (or World of War Crack, as we thought of it) and then attended a small LAC where he kept on a B course. I’m not sure if this was from grade deflation at the college, not knowing to drop out of class that was over his head, or (as he told us) Professors not posting grades until late in the course and then finding out he was doing worse then he thought.</p>
<p>Our senior HS son is a B student mostly because he does poorly on the big tests. He just stresses out completely and often does not finish mid-terms and finals in math and sciences. He could have an A going into the end of semester or year and then totally blow the big test. When that happens in both the mid-term and final, it’s going to turn an A into a B and a B into a C. Because of that, we’re looking very carefully at how grades are given. My son fell in love with Champlain College because the tour guide told us that most of the grades were on class work and not cumulative tests. We think he needs to find a college with similar grading or maybe he just has to figure out a test taking strategy.</p>
<p>I have a relative who is a sophomore at RIT whose mother tells us he has NO social life because he has to work so hard. Son is interested in RIT because of the programs but almost didn’t apply because of the relative’s stress level.</p>
<p>What I thought of during the application season was that it was okay for son to apply to a range of colleges but when it came time to the decision, that would probably be a different set of priorities, with money being a big factor. What I found with my other two kids is that their priorities regarding major and what they wanted in a college changed quite a bit from when they started looking junior year and in April of Senior year when the decision had to be made. Finding colleges that pretty much guaranteed good merit aid was an early decision.</p>
<p>Kinderny, the advice given above is so uniformly on target that it should be given to all parents and kids.–including A students.</p>
<p>Can I say how smart you all are? Exactly the kinds of analysis for which I was looking. There were some points that I had not thought of at all. I think I am leaning towards suggesting D eliminate the schools where she would be at the tippy top of the heap, as she would likely be bored. So that leaves the schools where she would be in the middle-ish and ones where she would really have to work hard to keep up. I am going to mention a lot of the thoughts here. I really want part of the decision-making to be more than where she gets the biggest FA/merit package. Thanks all!</p>
<p>Rodney, I just asked my son that question. He had a hard time answering, but I tried to pin him down anyway (he did not want to commit). He feels that he is somwhere within the top 25% or within the middle (says the he did not know), but does not feel that he is in the bottom half.</p>
<p>My S is a B+ student not because of tests… he did VERY well on his first SAT in Nov. it is because he hates busy work and doesn’t always turn in his homework… this semester he got the highest grade in 3 of his classes on the mid-terms, but ended up with B+'s because of not turned in homework… one of his teacher’s even said to him," oh, I guess you are one of those kids who can get A’s on tests without doing your homework." sigh… </p>
<p>Anyway, for him, the struggle in his college search is that he does better in more challenging classes and likes to be around intellectual discussions, but also likes to be involved in A LOT of activities… I can only imagine him in college surrounded by all the plethora of things to get involved in. He might be happier at a school where he is at the top of their applicant pool. He fell in love with UVM and he would be at the top there, and could get in the honors college. He also wants to go to med school, so grades will be important. He is just worried about how intellectual the kids would be there. He would hate it if the kids weren’t engaged in the class.</p>
<p>And that reason ^ is really why I want son to re-visit his top choice colleges and sit in on a class. Doing that quickly ruled out a couple of colleges for my older students. My daughter did a visit for the college she ended up attending and loved how engaged the students were and then visited a small State College where she would have been in the honors college and found the students half asleep and not even responding to the Professors questions.</p>
<p>I’m a big believer in fit. If you read this forum at all you’ll realize that most of the transfer questions are because a student feels like a fish out of water, and often not because of the academics.</p>
<p>S falls into that 25% being discussed. </p>
<p>LOL, was concerned about progress in one class, talked to professor and turned out he had turned in best paper that was assigned! He had thought he might be doing mediocre work, but that was not the case. Thank goodness, it is funny how that transition from high school to college works out. So far so good for his freshman year. :)</p>
<p>My D is one with an upward trend, so that is one reason why I think she will be a very different person in college than she was in HS, especially early HS. But I bet she would say that she thinks a LOT of kids are like this in college, so she, too wouldn’t judge her peers by their HS record.</p>
<p>It will be very interesting to take this discussion past the decision process and into the fall, as rodney suggests. We’ll be the “3.X students go to college” discussion group!</p>
<p>Some “lopsided” threads.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/988009-underachievers-3-3-gpa-less-2000-sats.html?highlight=3+0[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/988009-underachievers-3-3-gpa-less-2000-sats.html?highlight=3+0</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/987479-advice-nephew-3-1-gpa-near-perfect-sat-satii-act-ap-scores.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/987479-advice-nephew-3-1-gpa-near-perfect-sat-satii-act-ap-scores.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/915936-where-your-3-3-3-6-gpa-child-going.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/915936-where-your-3-3-3-6-gpa-child-going.html</a></p>
<p>Also…the URM competition…
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/african-american-students/940510-2015-aas-where-you-applying.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/african-american-students/940510-2015-aas-where-you-applying.html</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/african-american-students/686492-cc-african-students.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/african-american-students/686492-cc-african-students.html</a></p>
<p>African America Results Threads.
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/african-american-students/1046216-2015-african-american-results-thread.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/african-american-students/1046216-2015-african-american-results-thread.html</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/african-american-students/896299-official-official-2014-african-american-results-thread.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/african-american-students/896299-official-official-2014-african-american-results-thread.html</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/african-american-students/638464-actual-results-thread-african-americans.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/african-american-students/638464-actual-results-thread-african-americans.html</a></p>
<p>Some of these kids we lopsided the OTHER way, which seems to have a better prognosis, Still, I think you will find a great fit.</p>
<p>Very interesting posts. Something else to think about :)</p>
<p>KathieP- I would love to know more about RIT. Was their son a good match for RIT, a reach? How much time is devoted to work outside of the classroom?</p>
<p>cherryhillmomto2-a friends son goes to RIT. has had a horrible experience there. Smart hardworking kid, but found the professors and advisors less than helpful. Would like to have transferred but b/c of the trimester system, found it impossible. I understand they are changing their grading system, which might alleviate transfer problems in the future. He also is a pretty mainstream kid and in his words “all the guys are freaks”. I doubt that is true, or even close to true, but it was his perception.</p>
<p>Thanks Hollie. I’m working diligently on trying to get him to look at Bing. I know he would love it. You convinced me it wasn’t a suitcase school - and I hear there are new dorms, but its still a struggle.</p>
<p>shrinkrap thanks for the roundup of previous threads. I had not seen all of them before. I am urging my friend whose son had some LD/gpa issues to come here on CC especially this thread to get some ideas and confidence. I wish I had come here last spring when we were looking at colleges to get a better idea as to fit/match before we went to look at schools that were non-starters for various reasons. Hindsight…</p>
<p>Bumping this back up. My son has now been accepted at most of his colleges, and is just waiting to hear from three, one of which is his #1 choice. It should not be a reach, and is not stat-wise, but financial aid is known to be so-so and he knows that is important.</p>
<p>What I’m wondering now is how to narrow down the colleges. It seems easiest to go to the accepted student events since most of them are on weekends or at least a Friday, but for some colleges, particularly RIT (yes, accepted there!), it seems more important for son to sit in on classes to get a better feel for the rigor and feel of the real college. I am concerned about challenged vs. overwhelmed. Anyone else having thoughts on this?</p>
<p>Hurray for RIT! We have not heard from the 2 remaining RD reaches- think one is likely and the other not so much.<br>
I really want D to sit in on classes too. She did that at Siena (well, a simulated class) and it fell way down the list as the level of students she found “lacking”. Hampshire was the opposite- she liked it a lot but does nto feel her h.s. program prepared her at all for the rigor of the work. (Her program had a LOT of work- too much most of the time- but not highly difficult.) Unfortunately the two SUNYs she is looking at (Albany and NP) have accepted student days on the weekend so no classes. Both are near us so maybe I could get her there while classes are in session too, which I may suggest. (She will probably be up for it as it means being out of high school for a day.) To me seeing the classes will be a much better guage of fit than listening to administrators talk. Maybe you could build in getting there a day early or leaving a day late for the real contenders to see if the classes are a good fit?</p>