3.47 Engineering + 177 LSAT?

Graduate School Law School
1

Hey guys, just wanted to get your feelings on my chances at the upper third of the T14 due to my somewhat unique situation.

So I’m an engineer at the University of Virginia, and while my first semester was excellent, I really struggled in over the next couple of semesters. However, in my 3rd/4th year I pulled a 3.85 average and dragged my overall gpa up to a 3.47, which is Cum Laude or With Distinction in the engineering school.

I also have a 177 score on my LSAT.

Here’s where my situation gets a bit unique:
I am applying through the lens of Environmental Advocacy. To that end, I am currently serving on a Fulbright Scholarship doing research on water conservation, So I will have 1 year out of college experience in the “field” I want to work in, albeit not as a legal aid, more policy-based.

Additionally, I was a Jefferson Scholar, meaning that I received a full-scholarship for my 4 years and I am also a Rodman Scholar, which is, in essence, engineering honors.

Finally, I run a service-oriented non-profit (i’m staying vague on the details to avoid identification on the internet) which I have invested a significant number of hours into (nearly 500).

So: Do you think these factors position me to punch a bit above my GPA weight class in the T14?

Realistically I am assuming middle-table results but I would love to go to Columbia/NYU and I might cry if I got an acceptance anywhere in HYS (yes, I know its likely impossible) although I personally would want H more than Y or S.

Secondary Question: How reliable is Law School Numbers, really?

Tertiary Question: What races are URM at law schools? Just AA and Latino?

2

Very.

Not really that unique. For example, while a sweet deal, a Jefferson Scholar is an award given to high schoolers. Law schools don’t care about high school records, unless it is say, an Olympic medal.

odds are good if you want to pay sticker. NYU and Columbia will likely bite.

Unless URM, S&Y will likely pass on that GPA. Might earn a WL at HLS, and then it is really a matter of how bad they need your test score to hold their medians.

3

Thanks for answering all my questions!

I am fully prepared and willing to pay sticker. I still have my entire college fund saved and parents willing to help out there.

I checked and URM is AA, Latino, Native American, Puerto Rican, so nope I don’t get that boost.

And as for my situation, could i ask a clarifying question?

I know many law schools prefer students to go out and have real-world experience before applying. Would you consider my research as at least partially checking that box?

If I am lucky enough to be accepted by Columbia and then am waitlisted at HLS, how long can I wait to accept Columbia’s offer in order to see if HLS responds? I don’t want to risk losing one school due to greed

4

Yes, one year out of college is good. A Fulbright is a nice soft EC to have.

Until classes start. You can put down a deposit at xx college, and if HLS calls on the Friday before orientation, you could jump on a plane/train to Logan. Of course, you lose your deposit at xx LS and you will probably lose your housing deposit, if not a few months to buy it out.

I know someone who did just that a few years ago. He was a Stanford undergrad, and was accepted to SLS, but hung onto the HLS WL bcos he wanted a different experience. He was literally driving back to Palo Alto (from SoCal) with his Dad in late August when the Dean from HLS called to make him an offer. Dad dropped him off at the the nearest airport and he flew to Logan in shorts and flip flops, arriving after midnight.

Dad went to Stanford to check him out and wait for clothes that had been shipped. Meanwhile, mom shipped extra clothes from SoCal to Cambridge.

5

OP, please strongly consider working a year or two after college. That will help your application chances, particularly at HLS, and it should also help your interviews for law firm jobs. Dean Minow constantly says that she has instructed the admissions office to prioritize applicants with work experience, and a significant number of entering students now have that.

Columbia and NYU are worth paying full price. Going to HLS instead of either one of those will not necessarily put you in a stronger position, career-wise–and I went to HLS.

6

BlueBayou: Cool, that’s good to know. We’ll see what happens I guess. I’d probably eat the cost to switch from Columbia to Harvard but not to Stanford or Yale.

7

HappyAlumnus, I’m curious to hear your opinion on the work experience.

Would you consider working with a professor at an institute for conflict study on researching and writing policy dealing with said conflict “work experience”? I may be paid a stipend by the institute but it certainly would be about 50% academic, 50% work, although its not like I’m taking classes or anything.

Also: Work experience not in the legal field, yay or nay? Lets say I got a decent job offer to work at a startup for a year or two, and I took that before applying to law school to save up some money. Would you consider that as a worthy investment of my time? Please keep in mind that my end goal is Columbia or Harvard.

8

I’d say no to working in the legal field. At a junior level it’s boring and not interesting.

What you should want is work experience that will help show you fields that you may be interested in working in as a career, which should be consistent with your life’s passions.

You’ll want to be able say to law schools, “My passion in life is X, and I’ll use my JD for X. You can see that I’ve already lived out this passion for X by working doing X before law school.” You’ll want to tell employers, “I love X, and I know that I love X because I worked in field X before law school. Your practice in the field of X is amazing so I want to work for you.”

So working an institute or a startup could be valid work experience if it fits in the parameters above.

I went to HLS and loved it but it’s not the end-all of law schools. Columbia will put you in as good a position for jobs.