T14 Chances?

Hey guys! Looking for some outside opinions.

I am currently a senior at Cornell University. I am studying Industrial and Labor Relations. I have a minor in business and a minor in Law and Society. I am taking the LSAT in three weeks and will applying to law schools as soon as I receive my score back provided I score how I think I might score.

My information:

GPA: 4.0
LSAT: I have been studying for 8 months heavily but started studying lightly a year ago. I consistently score between 167-172 on practice tests but lately more in the 169-172 range. I know that practice tests aren’t always 100% indicative of the real thing, but I’ve taken at least 40 practice tests and really have put my all into this. For the purposes of this post… let’s assume I score in the 169-172 range.

Other Academic: I am currently writing an honors thesis that will be completed by May.

Work Experience:
Summer 2015- Interned in an employment law firm
Summer 2016- Interned doing a rotational business program for GEICO Insurance Company (Did this because I am potentially interested in joint JD/MBA and wanted work experience in both fields)

Extra-curriculars

  1. Phi Sigma Sigma Sorority
    Risk Manager- (2.5 years)- I make sure that the well-being of the chapter is being put first. I organize health and wellness initiatives. I make sure that my sorority is in compliance with the rules of our nationals, of Panhellenic and of the University.
    Recruitment Committee (2 years, will be 3 years)- helped launch initiatives to make sure that our recruitment was conducted in a way that was inclusive to all women.
    Standards Board (1 year) - sat on a committee to decide on judicial matters within the sorority.
  2. Student Advisory Board for my major’s “peer mentors”- I have been a peer mentor for 3 years to freshman in my major. This year, I was appointed to the student advisory board, which entails that I help organize the freshman orientation program within my major and in addition to having a group of freshmen mentees, I am a supervisor to a group of other peer mentors, to ensure that they are adequately doing their jobs. I organize a meeting at least once a week for my mentees on campus and ensure that my mentor group is doing the same.
  3. Finance Teacher’s Assistant- (hold office hours, assist the teacher with proctoring exams, and answering questions over e-mail from students)
  4. Note-Taker for the Student Disability Services Office for an internet law class
  5. I was a Cornell Traditions Fellow for 1 year. (Something only 2% of the student population is invited to be)
  6. Campus Representative for Say It With A Condom- organize marketing campaigns on my campus for a company that is dedicated to printing humorous and informative labels on condoms, these labels often spread awareness about AIDs/HIV prevention. Many groups on campus use these to spread awareness for various philanthropy events.
  7. Brother of Phi Alpha Delta Pre-Law Fraternity (largest pre-law frat in the nation)

I would honestly be happy if I felt like I had a good shot at Duke or Northwestern. However, UChicago and Harvard are my dream schools. Does anyone have any opinions on what my chances could be at these schools, or generally just the T-14 schools?

Thanks so much!

Don’t waste that pretty GPA.

If you do not score 172+, I would highly recommend taking a gap year, study/prep hard and retake. There is no rush. Plenty of students at HLS have work experience prior to admission.

A 4.0/172 not only will earn you plenty of T14 acceptances, you will also earn plenty of merit money.

Your GPA and LSAT score count the most, but HLS and like other law schools emphasize work experience now, too, and work experience makes you a better interviewee in law firm interviews. So I’d plan to take at least a year off between college and law school. With that, and a 4.0/170ish or higher, you should get in most anywhere.

Thanks for your replies guys. I unfortunately don’t think I will be taking a gap year however, for several reasons. I understand that maybe that takes HLS out, but with the other things I have does that really take out the t14?

Additionally: I am a first generation college student.

First generation will probably be helpful in law school applications,so be sure to mention that.

I think that you’re making a mistake by not considering a year out. Harvard and Yale could be yours for the asking (more or less) with a 4.0/172 and a year off. Plus a year off could be very helpful to anyone; I went straight from college to law school and was not as prepared for interviews and “the real world” as my classmates who took time off.

Another poster named Demosthenes will likely post that only GPA and LSAT matter. That’s Demosthenes’ view, based on Internet “scattergrams” that actually show that GPA and LSAT aren’t the only things that matter; a year off is increasingly important in law school admissions these days. Don’t waste your amazing GPA/LSAT numbers by not doing other things that will help ensure admission most anywhere.

Our DS went straight from undergrad to law school. He was admitted to 12 law schools including several of the T14. He was wait listed at Northwestern and was pretty much told that their preference was for work experience between graduation and law school entry. His stats were 169 and approx 3.5 GPA. He was admitted to Michigan, Penn, Duke, and Georgetown. His only other denial was U Chicago. He was initially wait listed at a couple of those schools but has excellent interviewing skills and three summers of law clerk (gopher and researcher) experience and was able to interview and gain admission at all three. He just completed his OCI and came away with nine big law (Vault 30) summer associate offers out of 14 callbacks. Again, his interviewing abilities and experience paid off. While I understand your desire to move ahead and not wait a year for LS, Happy Alumnus’ advice is sound, particularly if you want HYS…

Ditto. In addition to increasing your odds at a great outcome, with a few months to focus on LSAT prep you will also increase your chances of a really nice merit scholarship, tax free.

Sorry, there are no good reasons to NOT take a gap year, but thousands of ($) reasons to take one. Now, if you come from a wealthy family, maybe that does not matter to you, but even so, why not give yourself the best chance to earn a huuuuuge discount each and every year? A tax-free merit scholly will be the easiest money that you will ever earn.

A 4.0/170 is a pretty solid set of numbers. It will get you into most of the T14 with a strong shot at HYS.

Yale, Northwestern, and (to some degree) Stanford like to see work experience. The rest don’t care. More importantly, employers love to see work experience. Remember that you’re only in law school for a year before you interview for your job. That means you’ll have one year of grades and your resume to distinguish yourself from all of your classmates. Work experience absolutely helps sell a resume. I conducted interviews at a T14 last month and I can tell you that those with work experience did better than those without. Nothing sells a work ethic like actually working.

You may have sufficiently strong reasons why you can’t wait and have to go K-JD. You won’t be alone, though these days you’ll increasingly be in the minority. With a good enough school and decent grades, lack of work experience really won’t hold you back. You should carefully weigh your prospective [url=<a href=“https://www.law.georgetown.edu/admissions-financial-aid/office-of-financial-aid/upload/Georgetown-Law-Financial-Planning-Calculator-1617-v1.htm%5Ddebt%5B/url”>https://www.law.georgetown.edu/admissions-financial-aid/office-of-financial-aid/upload/Georgetown-Law-Financial-Planning-Calculator-1617-v1.htm]debt[/url] against the likelihood of ability to [url=<a href=“http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/%5Drepay%5B/url”>http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/]repay[/url] before selecting a school though, as slightly increasing your employment chances may not be worth another 6 figures.

Thanks, AvonHSDad, and your and bluebayou’s advice is excellent.

@gibbons, Dean Minow of HLS is very clear in her speeches: the school prefers people to take time off between college and law school. If you look at HLS admissions info, more and more students have work experience (or some kind of time) between college and law school. It isn’t at all like when I was coming through–when going straight through was the norm. I’d trust Dean Minow and HLS admissions info if I were you.