3.9+ in EECS + Haas Double Major

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - Berkeley
21

<p>First, I'm not sure how feasible it is to even double-major in Haas and EECS. For EECS pre-reqs you need at least CS61A, CS61B, CS61C, Math 1A, Math 1B, Math 53, Math 54, Math55/CS70, Physics 7A, Physics 7B, PhysicsC/Chem1A/Bio1A, EE20N, EE40, with more courses depending on your option. For Haas you need: UGBA10, Economics 1/2, Stats 21, R&C 1A+1B, additional R&C, and FIVE breadth courses (calculus, cs, biological and physical science breadth I didn't mention because it overlaps with EECS). That's 24 courses in 4 semesters, or 6 courses per semester (around 24 units per semester). To give you an idea of how many that is, most students average 15 units per semester, and you're not allowed to take more than 20.5 units per semester (unless you file a petition).</p>

<p>In other words, unless you come in with some serious AP credit + 4 semesters of the hardest schedule at Berkeley + summer school, you won't even be able to finish the pre-reqs. I'm not sure why there are so many threads asking about Haas-EECS double-major because it's pretty much impossible to do (in a physical sense, not difficulty sense).</p>

<p><a href="http://www.haas.berkeley.edu/Undergrad/applying.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.haas.berkeley.edu/Undergrad/applying.html&lt;/a>
<a href="http://sis.berkeley.edu/catalog/gcc_view_req?p_dept_cd=EECS%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://sis.berkeley.edu/catalog/gcc_view_req?p_dept_cd=EECS&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>And then to get a 3.9 on top of that? I don't think there's a student out there who can pull this one off.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Ok, this may sound uninformed (and it very well could be), but considering Berkeley's poor performance of getting students into top medical schools, wouldn't majoring in EECS kill any chance of my getting into a top medical school? The reason I ask is it may turn out I suddenly fall in love with biology in college, and decide to go pre-med.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I wouldn't say Berkeley's "poor" at getting students into top medical schools, per se. It's poor relative to the rate at which schools like Princeton, Harvard, and Yale are getting their students into med schools. But it's still above national average and it's still better than schools like UCLA, UCSD, and of course the schools below them.</p>

<p>But yes, majoring in EECS would kill your chances of getting into med school. This is not only because it's just about impossible to get a 3.7-4.0 in EECS, the GPA that average admitted Berkeley students have (sakky posted a link), but because you have to maintain that while doing all the pre-med courses, and also getting a near-perfect GPA in those.</p>

22

<p>On top of what vicissitudes mentioned, admission into Haas also involves more than coursework. You need to show commitment to extracurricular activities and work experience/internship.</p>

23

<p>Yes, it's very hard to get a 3.9 in EECS and Haas. But if you're exceptionally talented and hard-working, it's possible.</p>

<p>Check out this guy: <a href="http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/05/05_ankar.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/05/05_ankar.shtml&lt;/a>. In addition to graduating a semester early with straight 'A's in EECS and Haas, he started an undergraduate research journal and a charitable organization. (Just for perspective, this guy was the 2003 University Medalist and Cal's most recent Rhodes Scholar.)</p>

24

<p>I'm suspecting that back then, the requirements were different. I know that there used to be a business minor, which was gotten rid of. I read somewhere that he never took summer school.</p>

25

<p>
[quote]
"Higher" - Pray tell where you come to that conclusion? :

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Where did I come to that conclusion? Oh, I don't know, perhaps * from the data? *</p>

<p>Let's take a glance at some of the data for starters. In particular, let's pick out one interesting tidbit. In the last 5 years, the average LSAT and GPA score held by the average Berkeley undergrad who was admitted to Berkeley's * own * law school (Boalt) was about a 167-168 and 3.86. According to USNews, Graduate Edition, those numbers are * higher * than the average stats of the average student at Boalt. </p>

<p><a href="http://career.berkeley.edu/Law/lawStats.stm#school%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://career.berkeley.edu/Law/lawStats.stm#school&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Like I said before, you would think that is there is * any * law school that ought to understand the difficulty of Berkeley's undergraduate program, it would be Berkeley's * own * law school. Yet the data indicates that Boalt is not giving Berkeley's prelaws much of a break. Heck, if anything, it looks like Boalt is actually demanding * higher * statistics from Berkeley prelaws. </p>

<p>Lest you think I am simply engaged in cherry-picking, by all means, I invite you to look at the data yourself and draw your own conclusions. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Cal does not deserve its reputation
Many Cal students are below average
Cal grads are not as good as others in getting into Med/Law school</p>

<p>OK, got the message already... at least the football team is doing better. I don't want to start an discussion on your facts and othe stuff. Just getting bored at your constant rants about Cal.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>First off, I am simply pointing out issues with Berkeley. If you want to pretend that these issues do not exist, that's up to you. </p>

<p>But the facts don't lie. We're all entitled to our own opinions, but we're not entitled to our own facts. That is why I post my threads with as much data as I can find, so that if you don't like my interpretation of the data, by all means, come up with your own interpretation. But if you just don't * want * to know the data, I don't know what to tell you. </p>

<p>If you're getting "bored" with my so-called rants, then I have very simple advice for you. Don't read my posts. Nobody has a gun to your head. Nobody is forcing you to read them. In the future, when you see one of my posts, just skip right over it. That way, you won't have to be bored, and I won't have to put up with your complaints. We both come out ahead.</p>

26

<p>
[quote]
Yes, it's very hard to get a 3.9 in EECS and Haas. But if you're exceptionally talented and hard-working, it's possible.</p>

<p>Check out this guy: <a href="http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/r...05_ankar.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/r...05_ankar.shtml&lt;/a>. In addition to graduating a semester early with straight 'A's in EECS and Haas, he started an undergraduate research journal and a charitable organization. (Just for perspective, this guy was the 2003 University Medalist and Cal's most recent Rhodes Scholar.)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Okay, so there is one student who can do it. But come on, you're going to have trouble finding even a handful of guys at Berkeley who can do this. In other words, one in thousands. That probability is so low that I consider it just about impossible to do.</p>

<p>Let me put it to you this way: if you have to ask whether or not you can do it, you can't do it.</p>

27

<p>it's not like boalt doesn't recognize berkeley's competetive and difficult academic environment. it's just that they don't want to admit berkeley undergrads. a current boalt law student agreed to this, and so did many other law school students that i know.</p>

28

<p>Why does Berkeley do this, whereas other institutions have a modest number of their undergrads moving on to their grad schools? Is this meant for diversity, or more like self-loathing?</p>

29

<p>bump for question</p>

30

<p>Sakky, you assume a lot.... ;-)</p>

<p>Peace</p>

31

<p>Not only does Boalt do this, but many grad programs at Berkeley seems to have this tendency to not admit its own undergrads. The ChemE department, for example, explicitly states on its own website that it will not admit its own undergrads:</p>

<p>


</p>

<p><a href="http://cheme.berkeley.edu/grad_info/faq.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://cheme.berkeley.edu/grad_info/faq.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>It says that it's better for its undergrads to experience another university. That might be a part of it. The grad programs at Berkeley don't seem as eager to cater Californians (i.e. admit 90% Californians) as the undergrad program so they tend to admit more OOS students and thus fewer students from Berkeley.</p>

32

<p>
[quote]
it's not like boalt doesn't recognize berkeley's competetive and difficult academic environment. it's just that they don't want to admit berkeley undergrads. a current boalt law student agreed to this, and so did many other law school students that i know.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Lest you think this is just a Boalt 'anti-incest' rule, let's take a look at another law school. Specifically, let's look at what UCLA Law requires of Berkeley prelaws.</p>

<p>In the last 5 years, Berkeley prelaws who got admitted to UCLA Law had a LSAT of around 167 and a GPA of around 3.77. Again, this is * higher * than the stats of the average student at UCLA Law who had about a 165 and a 3.6 respectively according to USNews Graduate Edition. </p>

<p><a href="http://career.berkeley.edu/Law/lawStats.stm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://career.berkeley.edu/Law/lawStats.stm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
Why does Berkeley do this, whereas other institutions have a modest number of their undergrads moving on to their grad schools? Is this meant for diversity, or more like self-loathing?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Personally, I think it's a rather stupid policy, because as you pointed out, we live in a competitive world, and other graduate schools, notably Harvard and (especially) MIT seem to be extraordinarily accomodating to their own undergrads. {It's led to the rather common saying that the best way to get into MIT for graduate school is to go there for undergrad and just stay there. Incidentally, that's also why you have such a proliferation of people who are "MIT-cubed", meaning those who got their bachelor's, master's, and PhD all from MIT.} Similarly, other schools like Penn offer so-called 'submatriculation' programs in which undergrads can complete bachelor's degrees and MS's, JD's or MBA's at Penn in a shortened period of time. </p>

<p>Granted, things are changing somewhat in that Berkeley is offering some integrated bachelor's/master's programs, notably in EECS, which is a step in the right direction.</p>

33

<p>
[quote]
Not only does Boalt do this, but many grad programs at Berkeley seems to have this tendency to not admit its own undergrads. The ChemE department, for example, explicitly states on its own website that it will not admit its own undergrads:

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Reminds me of one girl I know who graduated with a BS in ChemE from Berkeley. She couldn't get back into the PhD program because of the anti-incest rule you cited. So she applied to and got into the Berkeley BioE PhD program, and she ended up working in the same exact lab and under the same exact professor (who had joint appointments in both ChemE and BioE) as she did as an undergrad. So while she ended up with what was technically a BioE PhD, it was basically a ChemE PhD in everything but name. Her office/lab was in Tang (the ChemE building). Her advisors were all from ChemE. Her peer group consisted of basically all ChemE students. So what's the difference? </p>

<p>If you're just going to allow people to circumvent your anti-incest rule in that manner, you might as well just lift the rule entirely.</p>

34

<p>His apparently favorite source for statistics, US News & World Report, has the following to say about Berkeley.</p>

<p>Berkeley is ranked #3 on the list of the Best Undergraduate Business Programs
[Best</a> Undergraduate Business Programs - Best Colleges - Education - US News and World Report<a href=“note%20that%20it%20is%20lead%20by%20only%20one%20Ivy%20League”>/url</a></p>

<p>Berkeley is ranked #2 on the list of the Best Undergraduate Engineering Programs
[url=<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/college/spec-doct-engineering]Best”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/college/spec-doct-engineering]Best</a> Undergraduate Engineering Programs - Best Colleges - Education - US News and World Report<a href=“note%20that%20only%20one%20Ivy%20League%20is%20on%20the%20list,%20at%20#8”>/url</a></p>

<p>Berkeley is ranked #9, overall, by High School Counselors Nationwide
<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/college/national-counselor-rank[/url]”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/college/national-counselor-rank](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/college/spec-business]Best”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/college/spec-business)</a>
(note that it is actually ranked #3, except that multiple copies of the same rank cause the counter to keep iterating)</p>

<p>Berkeley is ranked #21, overall, by the US News Methodology
[url=<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/college/national-search]National”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/college/national-search]National</a> Universities Rankings - Best Colleges - Education - US News and World Report<a href=“except,%20it%20is%20actually%20ranked%20#14,%20but%20multiple%20copies%20of%20the%20same%20rank%20cause%20the%20counter%20to%20keep%20iterating”>/url</a></p>

35

<p>No matter what other people have said about Berkeley in the previous threads, it would be quite obvious to state that the University of California at Berkeley is one of the world’s very best universities in the world. With its outstanding research program, graduate program, and the undergraduate program, it truly stands out as one of the world’s premier institutions. It has the 3rd most nobel prize laureates as faculty members among colleges in the US and has the 2nd most National Academy of Sciences faculty in the US. </p>

<p>Berkeley’s programs are excellent across the board. From Humanities to Electrical Engineering, you cannot go wrong at Berkeley. If you check out the Career Center at UC Berkeley, you can figure out where Berkeley graduates go after graduation. Some of the places that Berkeley graduates go to are Apple, HP, IBM, Microsoft, Boeing, Accenture, Intel, Bank of America, Citibank, Wells Fargo, Goldman Sachs, and much more. The fact that these corporations have regularly hired Berkeley students acts as a strong piece of evidence that testisfies to Berkeley’s international prestige.</p>

<p>As for the Haas School of Business, it is actually the second best undergraduate business school after having tied with MIT Sloan. It is a regular feeder school to various high tech companies, banks, and investment groups. EECS students, needless to say, are extremeley lucky to be at Berkeley as their degrees open paths to many doors. In fact, Berkeley’s engineering program overall is 2nd best tied with Stanford University.</p>

<p>Berkeley’s Boalt School of Law has constantly been placed at the top with other premier law schools such as Harvard and Yale. With incredibly strong ties with the Silicon Valley, Berkeley Law students can easily find jobs with excellent law firms. Moreover, with the global prestige of a Berkeley Law degree, the entire world becomes the job market.</p>

<p>Occasionally you hear stories about some students not doing so well at UC Berkeley. However, this is the same as in other schools. Some may criticize Berkeley for being too large but that is part of the school’s character and if a student is motivated enough, he or she can get all the opportunities, under the assumption that he or she has the necessary qualifications. I have heard many claiming that Berkeley’s world-renowned research program is not readily available to undergrad students. This is not true. Professors actively seek enthusiastic and academically motivated students to assist their projects through an online interactive system called URAP. Nationally recognized student organizations exist in abundance and are always seeking for new recruits. In summary, it is a bustling place to be at. If a student wants a smaller community, Berkeley may not be the right place for him or her. However, if you are up to the challenge and are prepared to learn at one of the world’s most prestigious universities, apply and join UC Berkeley.</p>

36

<p>yay EECS 10char</p>

37

<p>Check out course exams from math 53/54/55 (53’s not actually required), see how hard they are, and realize for the 61 series (or at least 61A), you have to get basically all of the questions on the test right to get an A. (one would need a 36/40 on the exam - the class is not curved)</p>

38

<p>This from 2007. Stop posting.</p>

39

<p>

</p>

<p>Inexxxorable, you have me laughing out loud, for you’ve apparently misunderstood, perhaps deliberately, what I have been saying. What does anything that I have posted on this thread have to do with Berkeley’s USNews rankings? </p>

<p>I’m simply pointing out that it is difficult at Berkeley to earn high grades, such as the 3.9+ in EECS/Haas proposed by the OP, and in particular, to earn the high grades necessary to enter a top grad school - whether at Berkeley or any other top grad school. Engineering is a particularly harsh grader. Who here disputes this? </p>

<p>But fine, inexxxorable, perhaps you do happen to dispute this notion. Fine, then have it your way. Everybody at Berkeley always earns high grades and nobody ever struggles and performs poorly. Is that what you believe? If so, perhaps you’d like to comfort all of the Berkeley students who have just experienced or are about to experience the gauntlet of he weeder courses by telling them that nobody ever receives poor grades. Tell us how that goes. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Sure, but that doesn’t mean much to vast majority of Berkeley undergrads who can’t get into Berkeley Law (or any other top law school for that matter). Every year, the overwhelming majority of Berkeley prelaws who apply to Berkeley Law are rejected. 2009 was one of the best years on record, yet even in that year, over 75% of Berkeley’s applicants to Berkeley Law were rejected. {Heck, a majority of 2009 Berkeley applicants to even a low-tier law school such as the University of San Francisco Law School were rejected.} </p>

<p><a href=“https://career.berkeley.edu/Law/LawStats.stm[/url]”>https://career.berkeley.edu/Law/LawStats.stm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

40

<p>

</p>

<p>The career center also lists Berkeley grads who end up being waitresses, file clerks, Starbucks baristas, and lumber pullers (whatever that is) - jobs that, frankly, you could have garnered right out of high school. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Of course that doesn’t help if you can’t get into the Haas program. Nearly half of all Berkeley students who apply to the program are not accepted, and that obviously doesn’t even count those who don’t even apply. {Let’s be frank - if you have a 2.5 GPA, you’re just wasting your time by applying.} </p>

<p>[Class</a> Profile, Undergraduate Program - Haas School of Business, UC Berkeley](<a href=“Class Profile - Undergraduate Program - Berkeley Haas”>Class Profile - Undergraduate Program - Berkeley Haas)</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>A Berkeley engineering degree can open many doors…provided you actually get that degree, and without a middling GPA. The sad fact of the matter is that many Berkeley engineering students can’t even finish the degrees at all because they can’t (or won’t) pass the courses. Even those that do manage to pass often times are tagged with mediocre, barely passing grades that greatly constrain your ability to find a good engineering job. Let’s face it: engineering companies aren’t exactly keen on hiring a graduate with a 2.5 (or less) GPA, even if it came from Berkeley. Yet, sadly, there are a lot of engineering students with those kinds of grades. </p>

<p>Don’t get me wrong, for I completely agree with your message that Berkeley students who do well have ample future opportunities. I am simply pointing out that not everybody does well, and in particular, will receive nowhere near the 3.9+ GPA in Haas/EECS as posited by the OP.</p>