3 most prestigious US schools in the world?

College Search & Selection
121

<p>TG, you should know better than to think that Princeton copied Michigan (it was, of course, the other way around).</p>

<p>In point of fact, the winged football helmet first debuted at Princeton University in 1935 by then Head Coach Fritz Crisler. The triangular shapes are said to represent the folded-back ears of a Tiger (Princeton's mascot), while the three stripes imitate those on the animal's body. When Crisler was hired by the University of Michigan he brought the new helmet style with him.</p>

<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winged_Football_Helmet%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winged_Football_Helmet&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Of course, the Wolverines are much more famous now and that helmet design is more likely to be associated with UM than with Princeton, though now you know the true history behind the famed winged helmet.</p>

122

<p>Sorry. I figured it had to be something like that. I know that when I went to a Harvard-Princeton game in the late '70's they weren't wearing them. I see they only went back to them in 1998.</p>

<p>One thing never mentioned on college confidential is that going to a school that has bigtime sports pays dividends long after graduation. For example, this past weekend in my suburban Detroit hovel, I was able to watch my alma mater thrash Maryland. ESPN televises about 5 BC football games per year, along with at least that many basketball games. Also a few hockey games. It is so nice to be able to keep in touch with BC in this way. I'm sure Alexandre has no trouble seeing the Wolverines wherever in the world he is. Ditto Barrons with Wisconsin. I feel sort of sorry for you, prestige, because Princeton is never on ESPN. Then again, I'm sure you get to watch the Tigers on <a href="http://www.greedisgood.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.greedisgood.com&lt;/a> or something like that.</p>

123

<p>Very true TG. Though Sirius Satellite does carry a bunch of Ivy games, its definitely a far cry from national TV coverage that you, Alex and other big time NCAA programs enjoy...</p>

<p>What are you gonna do? Ivy League Football just isn't "Big Boy Football" as Colin Cowherd would say.</p>

124

<p>ConfidentialCLG,</p>

<p>
[quote]
I said that Chinese and Indian students, most of whom have technical backgrounds, don't consider Harvard to be as prestigious as MIT or Stanford or Berkeley engineering schools. It is evidenced by the majority of Asian students in these schools compared to other arts, social sciences or even business schools.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>What you wrote makes me think you aren't Chinese or Indian. If that's the case, maybe you aren't even in the position to speak for them (or me). :) It's funny how this board is full of people who haven't lived in Asia/overseas would talk about how Asians (I included) think (and I thought, "I don't know that's how I think!") or those who said how a school is viewed in business world when they haven't even had a real job before. If you have a Chinese friend, ask him/her to walk you through the business/education section of a Chinese bookstore and I bet she/he can find you books like "how to get into Harvard", "Harvard girl", "Harvard business success" but NOT "how to get into Berkeley" (just get top scores--nothing magical) or "Berkeley girl" (no such thing).</p>

125

<p>
[quote]
This I find believable, given the history of the time. We have to keep in mind that it wasnt that long ago that Stanford was considered a regional backwater school of little prestige. For example, Stanford only won its first Nobel Prize in the 1950's, and by that time Berkeley had already won 6, and was about to win a whole slew more of them. In fact, at one point, Stanford had something like 2 Nobel winners, and Berkeley had at least 10. Now, Stanford has 18 and Berkeley has 7. </p>

<p>Obviously Nobel Prizes don't tell the whole story. But if you read the stories of Stanford, you will see that Stanford's status as an elite school has been the case only recently, i.e. in the last 30-40 years. Stanford's rise is linked with the rise of Silicon Valley, but Silicon Valley has been a tech/business dynamo only in relatively recent history. It wasn't that long ago when Silicon Valley was all just farm and orchard country. Old histories of Stanford relate the story of how early Stanford administrators shuddered at the thought of having to compete against the well-established behemoth public school in the East Bay, back at the time when Stanford had very little money and Berkeley had full financial backing from the state. Heck, in the early days, Stanford almost went backrupt several times.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Sakky,</p>

<p>This is not a Berkeley vs Stanford thread and let's not turn it into one. OK, both are excellent schools and both are internationally well-known. To choose which one is better would be a personal preference. You like Stanford. fine. I also like Stanford. But I like Berkeley better and FOR ME and to a lot of people that I know, it is the BEST American university. Again, for us.</p>

126

<p>
[quote]
It doesn't have an engineering/IT program? So what's up with the following link?</p>

<p><a href="http://www.deas.harvard.edu/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.deas.harvard.edu/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Now, I agree that Harvard's engineering/IT programs are not at the level of MIT's or Stanford's. But I don't think that's the issue at hand. This is what he said:

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Sakky,</p>

<p>Not many people know that Harvard has a school of engineering. And even if they do, I don't think many people think it is in the same breathe and high status as Berkeley, MIT, Stanford, CalTech and even Carnegie Mellon' eng'g/IT/tech programs. </p>

<p>But Harvard is quite a famous name worldwide, no question about that.</p>

127

<p>For science and engineering, the top two are Caltech and MIT; there really isn't a third.</p>

128

<p>
[quote]
I think that demonstrates the true revealed preferences that people have. A lot of Asians do engineering not because they really want to do it, but just because it's 'available'. They do it because they can do it, not because they really want to do it. Give them more options, and they would prefer something else. For example, if you're a native-born Chinese, you probably don't have the English skills to be confident in doing well as a Western manager. But that doesn't mean that you wouldn't want to be, if given the chance.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is hasty generalization. There is self fulfillment in doing science/tech and engineering stuff. If you're a science/tech person and you invent something, no amount of money can buy the sweet feeling of victory. It's so clear that the person who wrote that is a bias person.</p>

129

<p>
[quote]
Huh?
You mean it's human nature to turn down schools with more prestige? The number I used was indeed for international students. What yield number do you want me to use? OOS students? That's even worst. I guess you want me to use in-state one.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Sam Lee,</p>

<p>Would you go to your number 1 choice of school even if you can't afford it financially???????? Come one tell me. I bet one of the reasons why you went to Northwestern is because you have some sort of financial aid there. But is Northwestern considered on the same level as Harvard/Yale????????????? Think man</p>

130

<p>I think warblersrule86, Sakky and Sam Lee are NOT yet aware that this thread is about prestige and not about the best university ranking by USN&R.</p>

131

<p>
[quote]
Read my post carefully before replying to it. I said Times Higher Education Supplement rankings give Berkeley higher PEER REVIEW score among academics than Stanford.</p>

<p>Here are the PEER REVIEW scores in THES rankings:</p>

<p>University of California, Berkeley 92
Stanford University 82

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is like a big blow to Sakky's face. loL........</p>

132

<p>
[quote]
Posted by: ConfidentialCLG </p>

<p>I just want to say that a collective peer review score of universities by academicians from THES is more credible indicator of relative prestige of Berkeley and Stanford than, let's say, your opinion or warblersrule86's opinion or mine.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>GREAT post. I couldn't have said it better.</p>

133

<p>
[quote]
For science and engineering, the top two are Caltech and MIT; there really isn't a third.

[/quote]

very few people around the world know of caltech. </p>

<p>the top 3 for science and engineering are: MIT/Berkeley and Stanford. </p>

<p>Caltech, Carnegie mellon and Georgia Tech are slowly gaining recognition.</p>

134

<p>warblersrule86,</p>

<p>Try this:</p>

<p>World's Top 20 Technology Universities
1 Massachusetts Institute of Technology --- 11 Oxford University
2 University of California, Berkeley ** --- 12 ETH Zurich
3 Indian Institutes of Technology --- 13 Delft University of Technology
4 Imperial College London --- 14 Tsing Hua University
**5 Stanford University --- 15 Nanyang Technological University
6 Cambridge University --- 16 Melbourne University
7 Tokyo University --- 17 Hong Kong University of Science & Technology
8 National University of Singapore --- 18 Tokyo Institute of Technology<br>
9 California Institute of Technology --- 19 University of New South Wales
10 Carnegie Mellon University --- 20 Beijing University </p>

<p>World's Top 20 Social Science Universities
1 Oxford University --- 11 National University of Singapore
2 Harvard University --- 12 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
3 London School of Economics & Political Science --- 13 Princeton University
4 Cambridge University --- 14 Columbia University
5 University of California, Berkeley --- 15 Tokyo University
6 Australian National University --- 16 Monash University
7 Yale University --- 17 Peking University
7 Stanford University --- 17 University of Toronto
9 University of Chicago --- 19 Sydney University
10 Melbourne University --- 20 McGill University </p>

<p>World’s Top 25 Arts and Humanities Universities
1 Cambridge University --- 13 Edinburgh University
2 Oxford University --- 14 Columbia University
3 Harvard University --- 15 Stanford University
*4 University of California, Berkeley * --- 16 Paris IV – Sorbonne<br>
5 Sydney University --- 17 University of Chicago
6 Australian National University --- 18 University of New South Wales
7 Melbourne University --- 19 London School of Economics
8 Yale University --- 20 University of California, Los Angeles<br>
9 Princeton University --- 21 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
10 Beijing University --- 22 National University of Singapore
11 University of Toronto --- 23 King's College London
12 McGill University ---- 24 Amsterdam University
25 Ecole Normale Superiere Paris </p>

<p>World's Top 25 Science Universities **
1 Cambridge University --- 13 Kyoto University
2 Oxford University --- 14 Yale University
**3 University of California, Berkeley --- 15 Cornell University
4 Harvard University --- 16 Australian National University<br>
5 Massachusetts Institute of Technology --- 17 Ecole Normale Supérieure
6 Princeton University --- 18 University of Chicago
*7 Stanford University *--- 19 Lomonosov Moscow State University
8 California Institute of Technology --- 20 University of Toronto
9 Imperial College London --- 21 University of California, Los Angeles
10 Tokyo University --- 22 National University of Singapore
11 ETH Zurich --- 22 Pierre and Marie Curie University
12 Beijing University --- 24 Ecole Polytechnique
25 Columbia University </p>

<p>World's Top 20 Biomedicine Universities
1 Cambridge University --- 11 Yale University
2 Harvard University --- 12 Tokyo University
3 Oxford University --- 13 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
4 Imperial College London --- 14 Edinburgh University
5 Stanford University --- 14 University of California, San Diego
6 Johns Hopkins University --- 16 University College London
7 Melbourne University --- 17 Kyoto University
8 Beijing University --- 18 University of Toronto
9 National University of Singapore --- 19 Monash University
10 University of California, Berkeley --- 20 Sydney University</p>

135

<p>MABUHAY gets my vote for Spammer of the Year.</p>

136

<p>
[quote]

Like I said, just because a majority of Asian students do tech doesn't automatically mean that Asian students think that tech schools are more prestigious,

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Really! If they don't think that tech schools are more prestigious, then why are they studying tech in the first place; in their own countries and again in other countries like USA. Who is stopping them from enrolling in arts or business majors. You can't seriously think that Asian Universities don't have other majors than tech. You claim to be an Asian and you are the one arguing about it. Do you have any idea how much reputation an engineer in India has compared to other arts or science majors? Ever heard of IITs in India. Do you think that those guys, who claim to the best engineers in the world, give a damn about Harvard? If they do, then how come they are enrolling in droves at MIT but not Harvard?</p>

<p>
[quote]

How many times have you deliberately misread MY posts? Shall I go back and count all of the times? I have let it slide. I would advise you to do the same, lest we have to bring in the mods.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It wasn't sassing you for your typos or that you misread my or your own posts. I was saying that the peer review score of those universities by THES is a better indicator of relative prestige of those universities than your opinion or mine. This is the point I am trying to make.</p>

<p>
[quote]

Oh? More so than the overall THES score itself? And why is it any more credible than the USNews "peer assessement" rank, which is also comprised of scores from fellow academics?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Does USNews "peer assessment" rank represent international academic community? You tell me. I already know that Americans think that Stanford is more prestigious than Berkeley; as you have shown in USNews peer review rankings. But is this view shared by international community? This my point.</p>

<p>
[quote]

Besides, have it your way. Let's say you're right. Let's say that a review score by academicians really is the most credible score to use. Then what do I see here, according to THES</p>

<p>Harvard peer review score - 93
Berkeley peer review score - 92</p>

<p>So, according TO YOUR OWN LOGIC, Harvard has more prestige than Berkeley does, right? Hey, it's your logic, not mine.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And where did I contest this logic? I only said that tech majors in Asian countries like India or China prefer MIT or Berkeley over Harvard. I was talking about TECH MAJORS not every Asian. And since those guys represent the majority of Asian students in Asia or America they must give technical schools like MIT more prestige than non tech centered universities like Harvard. I am sure that if THES conducts a peer review of engineering professors of the world then Berkeley or MIT would receive a much higher score than Harvard.</p>

<p>
[quote]

So perhaps you'd like to have an argument with yourself about how the THES college peer review score is or is not a more credible indicator of prestige.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I am pretty clear about that argument. YOU ARE THE ONE, who needs have that argument with yourself.</p>

<p>
[quote]

So let me get this straight: the fact that there is a higher percentage of Asian students at MIT/Stanford/Cal engineering schools vs. the percentage of Asians at arts, socials sciences or business schools = Asians believe that MIT is more prestigious than Harvard?</p>

<p>Flat out wrong.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]

So what does that mean? That means that Asians KNOW Harvard is no. 1. Most people would take a Harvard acceptance over an MIT acceptance, and Asians aren't no exception.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]

Whether or not they feel they have better odds at MIT vs. that liberal arts degree at Harvard is a different question entirely. But given a free option for either, they'd take the Harvard option in a heartbeat. Frankly, I'm willing to take that assertion even further and claim that BECAUSE there are so many Asians at MIT (tech schools, engineering programs) that, if they can manage to land a spot at an elite liberal arts program (HYPS) this scarcity of value / differentiating factor makes it even more attractive.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>So who is stopping them from applying to Harvard and studying there; if they think that Harvard is so much more prestigious? If they will accept Harvard over MIT in a heartbeat, why don't they? If your last argument makes Harvard even more attractive than MIT, then what the hell is wrong with Asian community?</p>

<p>
[quote]

The fact that you see MORE Asians at places such as Caltech or MIT is simply because, let's face it, math is the great equalizer. Mathematics is a universal language. The number "3" is the number "3" in Japan, in Africa, in Europe, in Cambridge, MA and Pasadena, CA. There is no "fudging" in math - i.e. a 95 is higher than 94. Period. Many Asians take comfort in the black and white nature of mathematics and science. You either got it right or you got it wrong. If you study hard enough, long enough, you're more likely to score higher. Period. Compare that to the grading an essay or poem. This can be highly subjective. You see, a mathematical equation doesn't care if you are a 95 pound weakling with no social skills --> if you can solve it correctly, you get it right... doesn't matter if you were the homecoming queen with a thin waist and "C cups" or if you threw more touchdowns than any other QB in school history (now granted those things may matter later in life, but as for solving that math equation, it just doesn't matter).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I totally agree that Math is THE universal language. Then that whole argument of yours makes math intensive courses like tech much more preferable to Asian students. So why is it so hard to believe that those tech majors prefer tech oriented schools like MIT over Harvard? And that they give schools like MIT or Berkeley more prestige than Harvard.
Tell that to Sakky for me.</p>

<p>
[quote]

What you wrote makes me think you aren't Chinese or Indian. If that's the case, maybe you aren't even in the position to speak for them (or me). It's funny how this board is full of people who haven't lived in Asia/overseas would talk about how Asians (I included) think (and I thought, "I don't know that's how I think!") or those who said how a school is viewed in business world when they haven't even had a real job before. If you have a Chinese friend, ask him/her to walk you through the business/education section of a Chinese bookstore and I bet she/he can find you books like "how to get into Harvard", "Harvard girl", "Harvard business success" but NOT "how to get into Berkeley" (just get top scores--nothing magical) or "Berkeley girl" (no such thing).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Trust me, I have been in Asia long enough and I have enough Asian friends to understand their mindset. And I say this without revealing my ethnicity.</p>

137

<p>
[quote]
So who is stopping them from applying to Harvard and studying there; if they think that Harvard is so much more prestigious?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Who says they aren't applying? Last time I checked, there were 22,000 applicants who applied to Harvard which is double the amount of people who applied to MIT. Even if you apply the same %-age of Asian students at both schools respectively to those numbers, you're still looking at a very high %-age of Asian applicants. So, again, who says that aren't applying?</p>

<p>
[quote]
If they will accept Harvard over MIT in a heartbeat, why don't they? If your last argument makes Harvard even more attractive than MIT, then what the hell is wrong with Asian community?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Woah, let's back up for a second and address a couple of points:</p>

<p>1) Why don't they accept Harvard over MIT? I think you'll find that the overall yield numbers of Harvard and MIT cross admits favors Harvard by 70+%.</p>

<p>2) What the hell is wrong with the Asian community? NOTHING. Last time I checked Harvard's class profile for entering freshmen was 18% Asian. Last time I checked that number is way higher than their representation vis a vis the general populace. I think the Asian community is doing just fine.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I totally agree that Math is THE universal language. Then that whole argument of yours makes math intensive courses like tech much more preferable to Asian students. So why is it so hard to believe that those tech majors prefer tech oriented schools like MIT over Harvard? And that they give schools like MIT or Berkeley more prestige than Harvard.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You agree that math is the universal language, yet somehow you failed to grasp the reason I pointed this out in the first place. In a mathematical world, in a world driven by sheer "numbers", in a world where your SAT = your placement period (such as it is in many Asian countries - hence another cultural impact as I referred to, yet I digress)... I would argue that Asians would represent an even HIGHER number than they already represent at the elite academic institutions. But, let's face it, there is now a subtle yet definite "reverse" discrimination against Asian applicants - precisely because there are a disproportionate number of overachievers...</p>

<p>Just because you are a Valedictorian doesn't guarantee you a Harvard spot, regardless of whether you are Asian or not. Don't get it yet? Harvard is probably THE hardest school to get an admit ticket punched. There is no "magic bullet". It is an arbitrary process. The admissions process is not a simple cut and dried as it is would be at a more "technical" school. The fact that a relatively lower percentage of Asians are at Harvard (18%) vs. MIT (27%) says a helluva lot more about MIT than it does about Harvard. Now if Asians represented only 5% at Harvard - then you have something to argue, but as it is, Asians are doing just fine at Harvard. </p>

<p>18% Asians at Harvard. Think about that number for a second. Then think about the fact that the 2000 U.S. census recorded 12.3 million people who reported themselves as having either full or partial Asian heritage = 4.3% of the U.S. population. </p>

<p>As I see it, the only thing "wrong" with that picture is that every other ethnic group seems to be punching way below their respective belts compared to Asians.</p>

138

<p>
[quote]

Woah, let's back up for a second and address a couple of points:

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Let's back up a bit further. For the time being, let's take the graduate student population at Harvard and MIT into consideration. My reasons are:
1. Prestige is not determined solely by undergraduate schools.
2. Asians apply to graduate schools in much higher numbers than undergrad schools in the USA.</p>

<p>Now you are welcome to compare the percentage of Asian population at the graduate schools of these two universities. And please note the overwhelming majority of asians at the MIT engineering school. </p>

<p>
[quote]

You agree that math is the universal language, yet somehow you failed to grasp the reason I pointed this out in the first place.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I am afraid I don't understand how you could use this argument to contest my argument. If anything, it reinforces my point. Just take graduate population into account too, that is all I ask.</p>

<p>So I would like to reiterate

[quote]

I totally agree that Math is THE universal language. Then that whole argument of yours makes math intensive courses like tech much more preferable to Asian students. So why is it so hard to believe that those tech majors prefer tech oriented schools like MIT over Harvard? And that they give schools like MIT or Berkeley more prestige than Harvard.

[/quote]
</p>

139

<p>
[quote]

Posted by: the_prestige
Location: comfortably numb</p>

<p>MABUHAY gets my vote for Spammer of the Year.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>you also get my vote for being the most stupid guy on earth. Lol....</p>

140

<p>Post #134 reads:
Top Humanities Universities:</p>

<ol>
<li>Cambridge</li>
<li>Oxford</li>
<li>Harvard</li>
<li>Berkeley</li>
<li>Sydney</li>
<li>Australian National U</li>
<li>Melbourne</li>
</ol>

<p>I'm surprised Crocodile Dundee Community College didn't make the list.</p>

<p>Also, so much talk here about math being the "universal language." If you guys had been watching the Lifetime Channel, you'd know that the universal language is LOVE.</p>