This discussion was created from comments split from: retirement in mid-2019 . . . how do I seek need-based aid for beyond then?.
You all offer good points for consideration, thank you. Yes, we are in a great position, relative to many, and there are some good options.
With humble socioeconomic roots myself (neither parent went to college, and we were middle class only after my father got union benefits), I tend toward feeling that the prestige element is overweighted. It’s not easy though to discern what substantive factors truly might or might not distinguish elite liberal arts colleges from lower-ranked colleges. Or from the flagship state university that does clearly present an excellent value (as I decided, in my own circumstances, more than four decades ago).
Suppose we can “easily” afford a $300,000 tab, but liberal arts colleges closer to a $200,000 aggregate cost would welcome my daughter, and she might feel entirely comfortable, as much as at the costlier college. Bank $100,000 for her education after a BA? She doesn’t have any clear plans, but saving $100,000 for grad school, or getting an early start on financial security, is a good thing. It may be worth looking beyond the elite schools and considering others.
Two things I’m considering: (1) broadening focus on merit-aid schools, and (2) trying to determine what liberal arts colleges under the “top” tier in prestige have sticker prices of $40,000, $50,000 or something other than $70,000+
Location is flexible, and while it’s always nice to have an appealing campus, the biggest factors involve the people-- students, faculty, and the quality of the academic and overall environment focused on the main thing, education.
I didn’t know until now that Bryn Mawr offers some merit aid. We have other Philly schools on the list, and I’m inclined to add Bryn Mawr. My daughter has expressed interest in the women’s colleges (and we’ve visited a couple of them).
What is the matter with your instate public universities? I haven’t seen you mention these as an option…and they likely would be affordable…certainly more affordable than most private universities.
Many state flagship universities have excellent honors college programs as well.
Why aren’t these under consideration for your daughter?
Yes, there’s nothing the matter with it. The flagship state university certainly is an option. I mentioned it above, noting that the total cost over four years would be roughly $100,000, and there’s even the possibility of merit aid. I forgot to mention something that would lower the cost even further: my daughter already has credit for four AP courses, and it’s likely she’ll have more by the end of senior year. So the total cost could be around $70-80,000, for THREE.something years. Merit aid, if any, would be a further incentive.
And yes, there’s an honors college. That’s almost certainly where she would go, if she stays in state.
It’s a compelling contrast, financially: $300,000 vs. perhaps $75,000. Thank you.
I really sounds like your retirement will not change things much as far as need based financial aid goes. If you continued working, you’d probably not get much financial aid with an annual income in ‘the six figures’ and you’ll probably get very little with retirement income of a pension, SS, and whatever you withdraw from a 401k. You just have to decide if you want to spend $300k on college. If you were still working, would you spend it?
Well, if you’re going to insist on pricey selective schools, then be willing to pay. Pay for what you want.
twoinanddone, you’re on the mark, that’s what I have concluded: since we won’t qualify for need-based aid, no matter when I retire, the issue I raised in this forum has been answered, with many thanks to all who have offered thoughts.
Now my focus is shifting from the original topic to:
(1) considering merit-aid possibilities, since there are surely good colleges that might award an enticing four-year scholarship
(2) most significantly, is $300,000 worth spending on a liberal arts education? My daughter is likely to be admitted to several schools if not all, but are any of them worth it? Especially when a good $75,000 alternative definitely exists? (the in-state public university)
I fully recognize it’s a personal decision on which no clear answers are available. I don’t even know how to evaluate spending $300,000 vs. $75,000. The pricey elite colleges have much to offer, but so too does the public university.
What is her major and career goal?
I don’t think most majors/career paths are worth spending that much money, but everyone has a different wallet and different opinion. If you won’t miss the money and it won’t have any impact on your retirement or perhaps later assisted living needs, then spend whatever you want. 
There is really only one career path (Wall Street) that seems to care about one’s undergrad’s name, but even with their “snobbiness” we’re seeing exceptions.
The question is is it worth it TO YOU.
People make these judgments all the time. Do I buy the expensive Orchestra tickets to see Hamilton or be happy just to get into the show? I’m seeing the same show whether I pay $2000 per ticket or $400. Do I buy the $30k car or the $10k used one? Both will get me to work and back but one is a lot nicer. Vacation in Italy or have one really nice Italian dinner while vacationing on the Jersey Shore.
^^^
When it comes to colleges the difference is usually aren’t that extreme. The quality difference between a pricey LAC and the state flagship may be negligible
It doesn’t have to be simply a choice between a very pricey LAC and your state school. There are many other OOS schools and privates that would give enough merit to also have that $75k net cost.
What would be your preferred amount to spend each year
This is CC where if you go into business that means you are working on Wall Street or Washington, if CS that means Facebook, Apple, Google, and the list goes on. It makes me wonder where the rest of us work at lol?
I think paying that king of money for UG is borderline stupid for all, but the rarest of circumstances. As I have posted many times before I’ve worked for P&G and work for Nestle with engineers from (name a college 100’s over the years) they all make about the same. State flagship, satellite campus of state flagship, or MIT the band range was similar and in our HR dept it truly didn’t matter where you received your degree from. Your interview, experience, and soft skills were more important than where you degree was from.
Same goes for nursings, premed, prelaw, pre pa, teaching, unless the student is going to Wall street guaranteed or a must go to a top 10 law school and even then do they know that as a freshman?
75k vs 150k the experience could be worth it, happiness, small classes, etc
75k vs 300k maybe for the super rich that live in circles where parents think a Dartmouth is worth that more than Texas A&M for instance. I know 0 people that think that.
We went through some of the same considerations and decided to give our kids a budget and let them decide what to spend it on, whether undergrad, grad school or later for a house downpayment. Too many here limit their thinking to spending the money on education, but there are plenty of other ways to help your kids financially so they can get on in life.
S18 took the in-state flagship route (~$120K for 4 years all in), well within budget, saving some money for grad school. He turned down LACs and other privates with merit (typically $20K-$30K per year) that would have been anywhere from $60K to $100K more expensive. He didn’t bother applying to need only schools that would have been $160K-$180K more expensive (well above budget and therefore requiring loans). His choice wasn’t necessarily the one he would have made if money was no object, but he was clear that there was not going to be a worthwhile ROI from spending more.
D18 won a full ride scholarship (maybe ~$20K for 4 years for miscellaneous expenses) and will have money for both grad school and probably a house downpayment. She turned down the state flagships and other OOS public and privates with lesser amounts of merit aid (all in the range of $100K-$160K). For her it wasn’t a purely financial decision because the course was the best option too, so I think her choice would have been the same even if the cost had been closer to the state flagship level.
Don’t be so sure. I raised this issue upthread. It depends on where she applies. This statement is a clue that you do not understand current-day admissions practices of highly selective schools. Sounds like she is not selecting one school for early decision, and that you think that she’ll just apply to a bunch of schools and get into most/all of them and then get to pick. Over-confidence about acceptances is not a good thing. It leads to bad decisions and often heartbreak.
Please go back and read the MANY threads originated by students with top-notch stats who did not get in ANYWHERE or only to their safe school where they don’t want to go—and come on here STUNNED.
@jasred your daughters stats are on par with most of the other applicants to top elite schools. Please keep in mind that some of these schools accept only 5% of applicants. That means that 95% do NOT get accepted. For these schools, frankly, the odds are stacked against acceptance…not for it.
In the 95% of students who get denied acceptance, the vast majority are well qualified students.
Read this old thread. Most will say that Andison had no true safety schools…and likely that is true. BUT he was a well qualified applicant…a NM finalist, top student.
And FYI…admissions have become even MORE competitive in the last 12 years.
ETA…the smartest thing your daughter could do now is find TWO safety schools…right now. Do this first. It’s easy to identify those elite reach for everyone schools. But if they don’t pan out…it’s nice to have choices. A true safety is a place the student is highly likely to get accepted, a place the student would attend if accepted, and is affordable for the family.
If you can find at least one with rolling admissions or early action (not early decision) then apply soon! It’s nice to have that one or two acceptances early in the game.
Your kid would get a fine merit award at University of Alabama, and their application is easy, and live NOW. Complete the application and the scholarship application, and she will hear about her acceptance within a few weeks.
Absolutely no assurances for that. We’ve seen awesome students like your daughter end up with no top school acceptances.
First, thanks to moderator for the New Discussion topic, which clearly sets out the three basics for us (wife, daughter and me): 300K for elite LACs vs. 75K for in-state flagship vs. ?K if we can identify more “good” schools awarding merit.
I especially appreciated the advice about offering a budget to the child(ren), to make it her/their choice how much to spend on undergrad, grad, or later. That’s exactly what I was thinking. And it looks as though it’s working well for your two, with in-state flagship and full-ride scholarship, excellent! It’s difficult to imagine our saying to our daughter: let’s spend $300,000 on the “best” college, but after that, you are on your own for graduate school, law school or whatever. At age 22, you are “free” to rack up debts that can burden you for decades. If it’s entirely my judgment, based on what I know so far, I would rather see her get a quality education at the in-state flagship and have $200,000 for later.
The comments about the elite LACs seem to me on the mark. If she wants to be on Wall Street, understood. My daughter doesn’t know what she wants to do yet. So far though, it seems more likely she may be protesting against Wall Street 
I know there’s some positives for the $300K LACs other than the prestige element that may help open the doors to some endeavors, beyond Wall Street. There’s low faculty-student ratios, for example. That could be helpful, inspiring her in whatever direction. But I don’t know whether it’s worth four times the cost of the in-state flagship that has large lecture halls for some classes and a reasonable offering of smaller classes. Other pricey LAC attributes aren’t worth four times the cost, not for me anyway. Many buildings at the pricey LACs look great, the campuses are extremely attractive, the meal plans delicious, etc., but a country club isn’t what we want to pay for.
The comment that “people make these judgments all the time” is on the mark. Seems to me the ultimate question is whether a pricey LAC is more of an expenditure or an investment. Maybe it’s an investment up to a certain level, e.g., a BA from in-state flagship, and a discretionary expense at the $300,000 level. My wife and I have been far from lavish on expenses. For example, we chose cars costing around $25,000 even though we could have afforded transportation sticker-priced at two, three or four times that amount. We don’t need something flashy or prestigious. We are always looking for good value, for a worthwhile investment.
If a “name” school costs two or three times the cost of the in-state flagship, it might be a good value. At something like FOUR times the cost of the in-state flagship, I begin to shake my head. Or my head spins. Someone commented: "75k vs 300k maybe for the super rich . . . . " I agree, and we are not super rich, although we are fortunate to be more financially secure than 90something percent of the U.S. population (and getting to that version of “rich” wasn’t easy). We are not in the circles of the rich and feel no need to claim our daughter’s attendance at a school that has prestige as the main part of its $300,000 price. We want to help her on a good path for whatever she may decide. If we end up spending $300,000, we will do ok, retirement security not jeopardized. But it’s not as though $300,000 won’t be missed. My wife and daughter did go to see Hamilton recently-- I think a friend found the tickets discounted, and we paid in the low three figures, well short of the four figures that anyone truly rich may have paid a few years ago. It’s an extravagance we rarely indulge in. That may give some idea of how we assess the decision ahead.
Regarding not counting on admission at the pricey colleges, yes, acknowledged. Those with 5-10% admission rates are not sure things, entirely understood. From what I can tell, the odds are fair to good, at various colleges on the evolving list. She only has to be accepted at ONE of the (very) selective schools for this discussion to be relevant.
If she is admitted nowhere except the safety (x2), that would resolve the $300,000 question; it will be decided for us. That might be a relief, in a odd sort of way. It’s great to hear from all. Many thoughtful and experienced viewpoints.
OP- everyone’s hit list for “what’s worth paying for” is going to look different. For us, it was academic rigor, pure and simple. wasn’t paying for fancy dorms, wasn’t paying for nice weather, wasn’t paying for cute sorority women/handsome frat men. If one of our kids was able to demonstrate that what they were interested in at the pricey school was academic/intellectual in nature, we were happy to entertain that discussion. I know people who paid for their kids to meet “the right social network” which to me is an absurd concept (since it usually involved having your kid hang out with drunk people, practicing their drinking skills for the future). I know people who paid for “close to the ski slopes” or near good surfing. And that’s fine- their kid, their money.
But we were willing to pay for greater rigor and it was worth it. It has extended out my retirement which is fine since I still love my job. It certainly put us in the “living thrifty” years for longer than we might have needed to. Etc. And if our kids had been indifferent students, or had extreme athletic or musical talent, the set of schools/financial constraints would have looked different.
YMMV. For all the folks who say that the pricey schools is all about “branding”, I call BS. You have a kid who wants to major in Classics? I think the experience at U Chicago will be fundamentally different than at University of New Hampshire. Is it worth the extra dough? I have no idea- it would have been for me. And U Michigan and Berkeley have two of the finest Classics departments in the country- so if you are instate for them, and your kid can get in, than you’ve got a “less expensive but top drawer” option right in the bag. But majoring in Art History at Williams vs. Stonehill is just a fundamentally different experience. Worth the money? No idea, your kid, your money.
@blossom Love your attitude. Were any of your kids undecided going in? Both OP’s daughter and our S19 are in that boat. We, at least, are having a harder time deciding what is “worth it” when we can’t compare programs.
Another factor (which is likely too uncertain at this point to be determinative, but I’ll toss it in anyway): When you say grad school or law school, do you have any idea which is more likely? And if grad school, in what field? Grad school for my younger daughter is fully funded (by the school), and she got into this particular program because of her great performance in undergrad and her post-undergrad work experience. Law school or medical school, on the other hand, would cost her a bundle.
I think D2 would have done well at any school but being a biggish fish at a smallish school (a highly regarded LAC but not necessarily as well known as some schools of similar size and ranking) probably helped.
Great perspectives, blossom, thank you, helps to focus my thoughts further.
As rosered notes, it’s quite uncertain whether my daughter may go to grad school (or law school), or in what field. On the one hand, that uncertainty tends to add to the case for saving $200,000+ by going to the in-state flagship. (Wish it was Michigan, Virginia or Berkeley. Somewhat below those in general reputation though respectable in many/all areas.) When an “undecided” decides later, there’s $200,000 in the bank.
But if my daughter (like most 17-year-olds probably) isn’t presently sure of what she may do later, I can still see a case for the $300,000 college, for SOME of the $300,000 colleges. That is, for the highest-quality-all-around academic environment, if she is admitted. I totally agree, we’re not going to pay for our daughter to get near the ski slopes or anything like that. The honors college at our in-state flagship-- I think she has a strong chance of admission to it-- would leave very ample $ available for recreational activities, near or far.
The only social network I’d like to see her in is with other young people who are academically-focused (maybe even “nerds”-- as she sees and calls herself, having read voraciously from an early age . . . her friends are like-minded students at her public high school). The “party” schools haven’t been on our list from the start, but I’ve gotten a sense even from some of the pricey LACs that they may not be especially focused, first and foremost, on academic quality. So some are off the list. Deeper dives needed, but my bias is against colleges that have waived all core requirements (or created very flexible “distribution” requirements with an anything-goes tinge).
Bottom line: if paying $300,000, I want to be sure the college is very high on academic rigor. That should be front and center in the school’s culture and ethos.