<p>Let’s keep in mind that Greek life is only 30%. That means 70% are not involved. 70% of a student body of roughly 13,000(not sure of exact#) is a lot of kids.</p>
<p>Norcal:
I did not suggest any canceling exams permanently. Please do not misquote me to make your points. Another poster did. I agreed with his statement only in regards to making some temporary changes to appease the current urgent problems. I never said shower anyone with A’s. Why do you lie about what I have said and suggested??? What I do believe is that if you get a 90 or above on an exam you should get an A/A- not a B because the majority received a 90. I also said the difficulty of the exam should not increase if kids did well on the previous exam. You should receive what you actually deserve, not based on other people and the majority.</p>
<p>Cayuga:</p>
<p>I do not agree with everything you have said, but your suggestions to ameliorate the current situation are spot on.</p>
<p>Does the curve work like Cadmium said? From what I know, one can get a 37 on Orgo test & a 57 on an engineering and get a B. That’s why I’ve said the curves are generous.</p>
<p>Norcal, perhaps you can answer this.</p>
<p>I’ve never had a class where a 90 wasn’t an A. I’ve had classes where a 70 was an A. The curve is used to help students, not hurt them. This remark applies to the final grade, not individual test grades. Most professors will tell you that you don’t get A’s or B’s or letter grades on individual tests but rather raw scores. It’s the cumulative score at the very end that’s curved, not the individual test scores. This is not something I expect cadmiumred to understand because she is not a Cornell student and attended a college that was not curved. Yet, she feels the need to try to make assertions about a grading system she clearly does not understand nor attempts to understand.</p>
<p>Professors make mistakes in making their tests. Sometimes the tests come out easier or harder than they expected. I would argue any test with an average of 90 is too easy. I’ve been through Cornell. While the students are smart and hardworking, a reasonable difficulty test will not have an average of 90. I’ve had some very easy tests where the average was a 80. I can’t imagine the (lack of) difficulty a test has to have for the mean to be a 90. A test with a mean of 50-60 is probably too hard. A test with a mean in the 65-75 range, in my opinion, is not too hard and not too easy. Regardless, the students are protected by the curve. No matter how hard the professor makes the tests, the median grade in the class will stay the same. </p>
<p>I’ve said this before many many times and I’ll say it again: if I have one problem with the Cornell student body, it’s that they are too whiny. They overestimate their own intelligence and, more importantly, their work ethic. That’s probably why the myth of Cornell being grade deflated gets perpetuated. Personal responsibility is what I’m championing. Stop whining about the grading. Stop whining about the tests.</p>
<p>My experience is similar to norcalguys. I only took three biology courses, but I did take a fair amount of upper-level math and statistics courses at Cornell, and always found the curves generous.</p>
<p>One example was in Econ 320, often claimed to be the most difficult economics course, as it includes a fair amount of proofs and linear algebra. The professor said that he usually targeted the median grad to be a B, but when the grades came in and everybody was performing better on the exams than in previous years (despite a similar level of difficulty), he decided to raise the median grade to an A-. There was absolutely no penalization for ‘doing well’.</p>
<p>I’ll tell you where the curves aren’t generous: UMass-Boston. I took an upper-level math course there and the professor refused to curve.</p>
<p>So on the first exam the course average was a 45 and I got a 55. The standard deviation was around a 10, and the highest in the class was a 68 or so. Despite being above the curve on all three exams (and homeworks) I somehow ended up with a C in the class, and the highest grade in the class was a B. Half the class failed. It’s important to note that I took this class with fellow Harvard, Dartmouth, and Yale alums, some of the smartest people I have ever met, who are now all getting their PhD at some of the best programs in the country. </p>
<p>It was kind of amusing to watch the Harvard alum cry a bit when he got his first exam back and finding out he wasn’t going to get an A.</p>
<p>I also completely agree with the assessment that Cornellians like to whine. They also like to think that they are just as smart as students at say, Stanford or Yale, when most of them are really not. So, ironically, the coursework is more challenging than what you may find at those schools, while the student body is slightly less talented.</p>
<p>Norcalguy and Cayuga: thank you!</p>
<p>Wow, and I thought Sasuke was emo…</p>
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<p>I had bunch of my friends from my high school, middle school, elementary school, and other colleges including Georgetown, Northwestern, Duke, UC Berkeley, UCLA, some of other Ivies, and even lower-tiered colleges like UC Santa Barbarra and University of Arizona who complain about their grades all the time. Some at Cornell do complain, but this trend isn’t an exclusive event at Cornell by any imagination. </p>
<p>It is not so much about the institutions that people have their concerns regarding grading in colleges. It seems that the more math/ science related a course is, the harsher the curve. I know some folks at Georgetown and Duke who make it a habbit to bash some professors notorious for handing out many Cs in Math/ Econ/ Science departments. </p>
<p>I think that the grading is somewhat unfair, not only at Cornell but at other schools as well. You gotta admit that grading in engineering, science, Econ, or math courses impose much stricter curves compared to humanities.</p>
<p>Forget about the difficulty of concepts in each area of study. Physics: while being a difficult area of study conceptually, it also grades harshly. Asian Studies: while being easy conceptually, grading is also easy. (easy curves to no curves at all)</p>
<p>From my experience on campus, I ran into far more people who complain about the weather/ isolation/ boredom/ lack of hot women on campus than grading. </p>
<p>During exam times, people complain and some even panic. But, that is to be expected at any school, even at high schools, middle schools, and elementary schools.</p>
<p>On the other hand, my friends at USC, U Arizona, UCLA, etc don’t seem to complain as much about the campus lives. I actually think that many Cornell students are not happy with the environment that Cornell provides and that, imo, is the root of all complaints, whether academic or not, of many Cornell students. Let’s face it: Ithaca is no where close to the ideal image of people hold regarding the college life before folks set foot on campus. </p>
<p>While some do appreciate the beauty/ benefits of Ithaca/ Cornell, as seems to be the case with some posters here, many others do not. That is an important thing to note imo.</p>
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<p>It was for me. </p>
<p>But just what exactly is the ideal college experience in so many kids minds? And what, exactly, does it involve? Beautiful, inspirational campus? Check. Classes that leave your head brimming with ideas? Check. Diverse student body that can placate your every interest, from cricket to underwater scuba diving? Check. Countless of social outlets, including student performing groups, fraternity parties, a bar scene, really great athletic programs, and a decent display of culture (films, music, art, etc.)? Check. A funky college town with good food, neat shops to explore, and a fun bar scene? Check.</p>
<p>Nobody held a gun to your head and told you to attend Cornell. I loved Ithaca and everything it offered, from academics to culture to outdoor activities. If you don’t like Ithaca or the Cornell experience, leave.</p>
<p>And it will be entirely your loss.</p>
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<p>It’s great to hear that you had good time at Cornell and took the most out of your experience here. </p>
<p>But, you need to realize that tons of students choose colleges solely based on academic strengths, not seriously considering social lives/ fit. Especially those ambitious types who apply to the Ivies in the first place. I am willing to bet that most of the enrolled students here did not pay a visit to Cornell while they were still in high school and choosing where to attend.</p>
<p>And, I know some who visited Cornell first, liked it, thought the campus was beautiful, etc. Then, they came here and began not liking it as time progressed. One important thing for anyone to know: Ithaca/ Cornell environment is not for everyone to like. It only cradles well for certain folks with certain tastes. LA/ Boston, for example, may be more ‘conventionally’ desirable spots for typical kids at college level.</p>
<p>But, to tell these folks to leave the campus- it wouldn’t be sensical for many of them because it is a risk to switch colleges while they have accumulated certain accomplishments/ social networks on campus. Not to mention, it is a pain in the butt to transfer to other similarly top ranked colleges given the competitiveness of applications to top colleges. Yet, many came here initially for top notch academics, so going to low-tier colleges wouldn’t appeal to most folks here.</p>
<p>Which comes back to the original point I mentioned: most kids select the colleges purely based on academics alone. Those who choose colleges based on many legitimate factors including social fit, location, weather, academics, and not just the reputation of the institution are more likely to enjoy the college experience.</p>
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<p>That’s why us alums are on here talking about ‘fit’ ‘fit’ ‘fit’.</p>
<p>And frankly, our generation of youth need a wake-up call. Instead of ‘making the best of what’s around’, it has become ‘I’ll only have the best around’.</p>
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<p>It’s also a pain in the butt to be miserable.</p>
<p>I knew a kid at Cornell. He transferred from Cornell to Dartmouth. But then he was just as miserable at Dartmouth, so he transferred back to Cornell. Grass is always greener, etc.</p>
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<p>I would be totally shocked if this was true. The campus tours accommodate thousands of people every year, so many they have resorted to a deli-style number system for organizing them into small enough groups to take around campus.</p>
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<p>Bolt and frankly baseless statement there. Nobody said people choose Cornell solely to be in Ithaca (I’m sure some have and do), but to say location played zero aspect in the decision of “most” students is very short sighted of you. I’m confident you are not correct and I speak having been on these boards for many years and having spoken to hundreds if not thousands of students.</p>
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<p>Around the year, yes. But, most who matriculate at Cornell found out about their admissions decisions at beginning of April and had one month to decide. You are telling me that most accepted students, not just random visitors including adults and children also, came to visit Cornell while making their picks on their final college destination?</p>
<p>I come from LA area. So, most kids from my school who were accepted to UCLA or USC, of course, visited the campuses before committing to those schools. But, Cornell is in a remote location. Let’s get real.</p>
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<p>Maybe I did not express my thoughts in the best language possible. I retract the word, “most”. I mean to say “many”. Those aiming for Indiana U, U of Arizona, U Florida or the like won’t contemplate much about the academic strengths too much when choosing colleges. They may in fact look at social fits the most, when choosing colleges.</p>
<p>But, we are talking about Cornell. Most kids applying to top colleges are already those who care a lot about academics who are those ambitious types. And, not many kids get the option to pick and choose which Ivy they are going to attend. The admission is insanely competitive nowadays. Few kids would have gotten into Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell, and Harvard and pick from them based on all ‘fit’ factors, leading many to become practical and choose the school with the best perceived academic strength on their list of accepted colleges.</p>
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<p>many, including myself, visit before they even applied. I visited dozens of campuses my junior year in high school and selected based on this, as opposed to applying to any top tier programs and then visiting whichever ones offered me admission. And how about you get real, at least 60-65% of students students come from within a half-day’s drive to campus (Boston, NYC, LI, Philly, DC, Albany, Providence, etc.). Harvard is no closer to NYC (NY is where 35% of students come from) than Cornell is, common sense here.</p>
<p>I can’t identify at all, I loved Ithaca. And my daughter is there now, and SHE loves Ithaca. Most people I know got on there just fine. A few of them never left.</p>
<p>And I can’t identify with the other theory either, my kids all visited the campuses they matriculated to before doing so. And so did I, all those years ago.</p>
<p>Momoftwoteens,</p>
<p>"Does the curve work like Cadmium said? From what I know, one can get a 37 on Orgo test & a 57 on an engineering and get a B. That’s why I’ve said the curves are generous.</p>
<p>Norcal, perhaps you can answer this."</p>
<p>Where were you given this information? This is absolutely not the case. First semester Orgo exam averages were approximately 70, 55, 50, and 110 (out of 200) on the final. second semester was slightly different, but not by much. the standard deviations were anywhere from 12-16. the course was curved to a 2.8, which is about a B-. getting around 37% overall would mean a D or an F, a C- if the professor was having a very, very good day submitting grades. </p>
<p>the curves aren’t designed to be generous or stringent necessarily. they are designed to have a certain mean GPA. there are AEM classes i’ve taken where almost everyone gets an A or A-, but that is not the case for genetics, orgo, or engineering classes. if one is hoping to rely on generous curves to obtain a reasonable grade in orgo, genetics, or engineering classes… he/she is in for a surprise.</p>
<p>Let’s face it, perceived academic strength/ prestige of an institution plays a huge role for many when choosing colleges. That is why the more prestigious the institution, the higher the yield tends to be regardless of the school’s other dimensions. Thus, many who choose which college to attend to may be led to their final pick largely influenced by the academic factor alone. Come on. Let’s get real. For those serious students, who apply to Ivies in the first place, the academics should be the first and most dominant factor that they look at when choosing from schools. And, for some, Cornell was the best school that they got into. </p>
<p>The point remains that Ithaca is not conventionally desirable place to live for many. It can be great for some. For me, it isn’t bad. I don’t have a beef with Cornell or Ithaca, although I do concede that Boston/ LA or whatever may be a better environment for many college students. I get by with Ithaca just fine. But, I see many others complaining about Ithaca all the time, hence I bring up this issue.</p>
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<p>I think the ‘many others’ you refer to is just a small but vocal minority. The rest of the campus is enjoying themselves too much to be heard.</p>
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<p>Funny, because the median grade in the class is a B, or at least has been for the last two years. So I suspect the student with a 37 (one standard deviation below the mean) would get a C.</p>