4.05 GPA - 1600 SAT/24 ACT: What's A Parent to Do?

<p>My D has a 4.05 GPA as a junior at an elite college prep school taking the most rigorous AP schedule [with the exception that she's not on the calculus track for senior year]. She's a very good and diligent student, has good EC's and will have good recs.</p>

<p>Her problem? So far she has not done too well on the SAT/ACT. She's taken the SAT twice and received about 1600 each time. She's taken the ACT once and earned a 24.</p>

<p>She's had a tutor, although I don't know how hard she really applied herself to her SAT/ACT homework (just keeping up with school work and school sports is already a lot). And, to be honest, I don't know how good the guy really is anyway.</p>

<p>I may be naive, but it seems to me that someone who can achieve those sorts of results in the classroom ought to be able to find success on these tests.</p>

<p>Am I wrong?</p>

<p>Any suggestions?</p>

<p>Thanks in advance.</p>

<p>Sign me: Frustrated</p>

<p>Ask her teachers and college counsellor. Is this what they expect of students with this GPA? If it is really low for someone with her grades, then trying hard at tutoring might help. You also have time to seek out more detailed educational assessment, rather than something tailored to raising the grade on one test. If the SAT/ACT really does predict difficulty in college, best to find out now, and get an idea of why. Could be anything as simple as bad test taking strategy, to a student who gets high grades by working incredibly hard, and who could not keep this up in college.</p>

<p>What about considering some test-optional schools? FairTest publishes a long list of colleges that are SAT/ACT-optional. <a href="http://www.fairtest.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.fairtest.org&lt;/a>. Actually, the list is deceptively long. Most schools on the list have open or extremely liberal admissions policies. Quite a few, though, are moderately to highly selective liberal arts colleges. (Middlebury, Bowdoin, Hamilton, Pitzer, and Bates come to mind.) So a student like your daughter, with a strong high school transcript and weaker scores, may want to consider applying to some schools with test-optional policies. </p>

<p>Use the FairTest list with caution. Although there are indeed some schools on the list that do not require standardized tests for any purpose, many schools that appear on the list are not entirely test-optional. Some (like Middlebury and Hamilton) substitute one national standardized test for another, requiring students who don’t submit ACT or SAT scores to instead submit SAT II, IB, or AP exam scores. Also, students who are interested in merit-based aid must still submit ACT/SAT results to most test-optional schools, and some schools require scores for class placement.</p>

<p>I know a student with a similar scores/grades. She started at a community college at 15, got her associates degree with a 4.0 at age 17. Then she got a scholarship to nursing school and has just graduated with a BSN at age 19.
I think she had about a 3.9 GPA--boy did she cry when she got the first B of her life as a college junior! Her ACT score: 23. She is just an incredibly hard working, goal-oriented student. Your D's scores are above average. Most colleges will accept her, and she can do well if she works hard. </p>

<p>Did your D mention any problem she had with the test--like running out of time and not being able to finish? </p>

<p>OTOH, grade inflation is common in high school. If the average GPA at your D's school is a 3.5 but the average ACT score is 21, well, I think a lot of those kids will struggle in college.</p>

<p>Those scores are on the low side. With her GPA, your D should do much better than just above average. Any particular weak area per her test scores?</p>

<p>Go to libary and get one of those preparation books with practice test. Let her do one in a none pressure environment. Analyze her scores to find what could be the root cause. </p>

<p>The best way to bring the score up, per main street idea, is to enroll her in a preperation class.</p>

<p>A current valedictorian at a competitive high school I know, who took a rigorous course load, could not crack 1800 on the SAT or higher than a 27 on the ACT. He took the tests multiple times. He never received a grade below an A in any honors or AP course, and students with somewhat less rigorous courses and lower GPA's, are scoring 2250 etc. Everyone was perplexed. He will be attending the state flagship U in the fall.</p>

<p>I don't buy it most of the time people say it, but I think that there is a certain small percentage of kids who simply are not good standardized test takers (not counting those who have LD's...that's a different category). I'm not sure if there is an easy solution, but maybe you can use the summertime to get serious about test prep (and try to find a well-reputed tutor, perhaps?). However, it definitely depends on your daughter and how hard she wants to work at it...you can't give someone push if they don't have it themself.</p>

<p>About the SAT/ACT as a predictor of success in college:
These tests are not terribly good predictors. HS grades correlate better with success in college. If she were my kid I wouldn't be too worried about her being successful in college, as long as the college is a good fit for her academically and socially.</p>

<p>Why she isn't scoring well on these tests:
Lots of very bright kids don't do well for a variety of reasons. Could be test anxiety, or over-thinking the questions (that was my daughter's problem), or slow reading speed (my son's problem). Have you asked the SAT coach what he thinks?</p>

<p>My son (a sophmore) was diagnosed with a LD this year. Even though he was a straight A student, he was complaining that he was "slower" than everyone else in his class - slower reader, slower to copy stuff off the board, he couldn't follow people when they talked fast, etc. Turns out that he has a very significant deficit in processing speed, but because he's basically a smart cookie he had been able to compensate. He still can in class, but he got quite low PSAT scores, esp. in the reading section. We've filed a request for extra time with the College Board but don't expect much success, as his school won't give him a 504 (they say his grades are too high). So oh well. Anyway, I tell you this to point out that your daughter may have some underlying neuropsychological issue that doesn't come into play until she has to take a timed test. If she is complaining of difficulties in another area or seems to be working a lot harder than you think she should have to, you might want to get her tested. It might not do any good for the SAT, but knowledge is power, esp. when figuring out which colleges would make a good fit.</p>

<p>Stanford 78, huh? My husband is '78 and I'm '76. Go Cardinal!!</p>

<p>Time management is crucial in these tests. Obviously, there is an issue b/c she should know at least the math well with that high of a gpa. It only goes through precal. you can go online and have her take a test, you timing her and keeping track of her progress. She needs to have strategies on how to allocate her time, what to do when she gets stuck, the come back to it method...and the difference between act and sat guessing or not guessing strategies. What does she think about her performance? Does she show weaknesses in specific areas or is she weak all over the place, differing from test to test.</p>

<p>I have to say that I feel sorry for high schoolers today. So much emphasis on this one test! I have no special knowledge, but my guess is that in a decade or so, we will all be looking back and shaking our heads at why people put so much emphasis on the SAT or the ACT. I would think that anyone with common sense would recognize that a kid's record of grades and classes, over time, would be a better predictor of college success than is one single test. Of course, there is no denying that the rigor of high school courses and grading policies varies greatly, but the OP characterizes her D's school as an elite college prep school and AP courses are AP courses. This smart kid will be just fine.</p>

<p>Marinmom, my son also processed things a bit slower, noticed it in high school although he did very well,had a high GPAm other students would do math problems much faster, etc. His calculus teacher also noticed he could do 10 problems and get 4 wrong, but orally, he would always get them right, so copying was sometimes a problem (good teachers see things) He never could get over the high end of 1200's and 25 on ACT. Just couldn't stay focused that long. He didn't want to go on drugs because he didn't need it for school and still says he is "okay", just has to work harder. His doctor, (who also had ADD as a child when there wasn't any drugs) told him to send an SOS if things get too hard, but told him he should be proud of himself to not making the SAT his whole focus. His grades and high GPA spoke a lot, his courses, teachers, etc. and he did very well his first year at college.
Many students can't do well on those tests and the fact tutoring companies make so much $$$ with courses, makes me feel something is wrong. Why use a test that you have to cram for like that? How is that a "real look" at their work.</p>

<p>That is a huge gap for an "elite college prep school". There could be any number of things wrong . . . and probably a little bit of all of them:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>The SATs are imperfect and all, but if your child is getting great grades while barely scoring above average on the SATs, there's a good chance that the grades aren't really providing the information they should. The "rigorous" courses may be too easy, or the standards too lax.</p></li>
<li><p>If the tutor hasn't talked to YOU about this already, he or she is useless. You can do much better. </p></li>
<li><p>You should have talked to the tutor already.</p></li>
<li><p>Of course, the biggest component is likely to be some mismatch of your daughter's learning style with the SATs. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>Ordinarily, I'm a laissez-faire guy when it comes to standardized testing, but in your shoes I would want to understand this situation a lot better. In this area, there are professionals -- some just high-grade test tutors, some clinical psychologists, some occupational therapists -- who could probably look at your daughter's tests, and maybe do some additional testing, and give you a pretty detailed sense of what the problem is and a plan for attacking it. I don't think that service is cheap, but this issue could go way beyond what colleges she applies to, and I would not want to hold my breath and see whether the issues (if any) pop up elsewhere in her academic life. And if part of the issue is that the school isn't doing its job, I would want to know that, too.</p>

<p>And I would definitely want to know whether there was something a good educator/tutor/therapist/coach/parent could do to help her improve her testing skills. If she continues to perform well in the classroom, having the ability to take a standardized test that is more confirmatory of that would increase her options exponentially, at this level and at the next one.</p>

<p>(On the other hand . . . maybe you don't need her options increased exponentially at this level. You may want to take a peek at admissions standards at schools she might be considering, like various state universities. It may be that with her grades she doesn't need better SAT scores than she has. I would still want to know what's going on, but there may not be any need to panic or to spend money right and left.)</p>

<p>There is a reason to have both grades and test scores. Some people get their grades through some very hard work, some have grades that don't reflect their knowledge or ability (eg-work not done can lower grades even with perfect test grades). I agree that further analysis of the reasons for lower SAT/ACT scores is indicated. Please follow through on the excellent suggestions of posters. Your D will appreciate knowing the cause of the problem, even if she doesn't like it or the process needed to discover it. You are doing her a big favor by pursuing this issue. Good luck.</p>

<p>Did she take the SAT on a date with the question and answer service, </p>

<p><a href="http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/sat/scores/qas.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/sat/scores/qas.html&lt;/a> </p>

<p>so that you can see exactly what she answered?</p>

<p>With some hard work just about anyone with decent intelligence can get A's in most high schools. I think you need to turn up the heat and make her study for the tests until her eyes bleed. Only then will you have done everything you can do. Or you can accept these are the scores and go from there and use the suggestions for schools that care less about scores.
As Tom Cruise said in Risky Business--"looks like I'm going to Illinois".</p>

<p>My kids did the Testmasters prep course. They guarantee they'll raise your kids' score 300 points, and it did for mine. It's not cheap....about $700, I think. Both of my boys tended to work too slowly, and the class taught them tricks for speeding things up. Yes, it is "teaching to the test" but some kids just have a natural feel for test taking, and some don't. They need some extra help. Also, my boys benefited most when they did numerous practice exams after taking the prep course.</p>

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<p>I think these are all good reasons why a person who is very high achieving in the classroom isn't high achieving when it comes to taking the test. I would try a specialized prep that tries to address these problems (in other words, don't worry about learning "material"--work on test taking mechanics) and then retake once more. If you don't get better results, then just move on.</p>

<p>I would personally just take a few practice tests and see what's wrong. I'm a bit confused by this situation. No high-grad kid I know has ever done badly on standardized tests (only exception being one person taking SAT Biology 3 times and never breaking 700).</p>

<p>I recommend the Princeton Review SAT book and <em>Up Your Score</em>.</p>

<p>Actually, for 88% of the test-taker pool, the SAT:s are as accurate a prediction for college success as throwing a pair of dice (the organization behind the SAT uses a very manipulative method to arrive at a different percentage than others who have looked into it, but they still admit the test's predictive capacity is far below 60%). </p>

<p>She may be experiencing a discrepancy between the test style of her educational environment and the standardized test. It truly is all about prep, and familiarity with the design of the test as well as strategies for taking it. I second the idea of dedicating a weekend or two to figure out what went wrong through practice tests.</p>

<p>Just remember, the SAT is NOT the end-all be-all predictor for anything but how well you do on the test - most college admission officers would probably know this. It does look a little bit strange with that large of a discrepancy, but her strong grades and solid recommendations will help put her score into context for the schools she is applying to. This does not have to be a big deal if you don't let it be.</p>