4 years behind,

Colleges and Universities A-Z Reed College
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<p>My question, inquiry is very open-ended and I hope I do not bore anyone with a little bit [or a lot] of the background so in light of that I'll state it concisely and then expand:</p>

<p>I'm 28 about to turn 29. Would going to Reed/ applying be absurd at this point? If I had hopes that never died of experiencing Reed would it make more sense to consider their courses as an augmentation of my eventual PSU graduate studies or a major transfer to Reed entirely for post grad courses/ program? </p>

<p>When I was 22 I moved to Portland with nothing but a thousand bucks, a suitcase and a well known room mate. I had no outside help, no funds for college certainly, and began working. I was so terribly afraid of debt I even waited until I was 24 when you're officially considered "independent" and only then began attending PCC community college. I still had Reed in mind, though... I had spent half of my teenage life too advanced for high school (I dropped out and got my GED), I spent my weeks growing up reading the classics of Plato, Aristotle, etc., later Kant, Heidegger, et al. I would spend my days wrestling with the problems inherent in elucidating something so inane yet complex as temporality/ subjective concepts of time via phenomenology, etc. </p>

<p>But when I took the campus tour and group interview at Reed I was more interested in an arts program. I had a few ideas about where I was going intellectually. Since I had already spent so much of my life delving into Western thought on my own time I wondered whether or not I should be taking a curriculum that would take so much more time and study and I wondered whether I could hack it if I would be relying on student loans, whatever scholarships I could muster and working meanwhile contemplating debts of 40K or plus each year spent at Reed if I could get in. </p>

<p>This is no rip whatsoever, but the tour guide at Reed was painfully ditsy, giggly, showing us an art exhibition that involved pictures of a demonstration where someone played with a rubber chicken, etc. I was just perplexed. It seemed they had no facilities for steel fabrication: welders, tigs, migs, etc. which is fine, .. perhaps sculpture is just not one of Reeds real suits. </p>

<p>Still, I was setting things up to apply, leaving what program I would choose for later. One requirement was to have an example of an expository essay graded by a former teacher, preferably red pen on it and all. I had the PERFECT one laid out back in my home town graded by a community college teacher I had taken three classes with, one of which was an Enriched Western Writing Analysis class. It was an essay on one of Carl Jung's works. I told my father to send all of my binders from my classes with that teacher, I would fish out the essay and begin my "Why Reed" paper. Lo and behold all the work my father laid in a box in his car to get ready to send was stolen at random in an unlocked door theft where I can only assume some boxes of value and some not were taken, my expository essay example included. Why anyone would want a box full of binders and old school work, after all I have no idea. At that point outright discouragement in addition to the contemplation of debt and how I could survive a Reed workload on top of a job all won me over, or rather under. I decided perhaps Reed just wasn't meant to be. </p>

<p>I continued to attend PCC, doubled my college loan money by investing in the stock market, but have now lost it all since relying on those savings to get me through a terrible year called 2011 in which I lost my job in February. Thus, four or five years later I feel like I'm back at square one. Almost finished with a mere associates from PCC and now attending PSU.</p>

<p>Anyway, that's my story. A little bit of a lamentation, as it were. </p>

<p>I honestly think it would be absurd to apply to Reed as an undergrad four years behind my original penchant for doing so now. But perhaps someone would like to offer perspective on what I might do education-wise in general. I'm considering going in for a major in writing at PSU but nothing is in stone. Perhaps some stop at Reed may be beneficial just not in an undergrad, four to six year capacity. Then again I know Reed doesn't have a writing major. Furthermore, maybe some would disagree. Maybe there are a bunch of Reedies that start at 30, but I highly doubt it. I'm thinking I might take latin at PSU just because I've always wanted to learn it, perhaps that would be a window and I could follow up with some classics studies at Reed on some short term transfer basis. Perhaps I'm just agonizing over being so late in the game of college life in general. The U.S. has got to change that 24 independent status law, it's killing a lot of us, and we've got to get our economy up with funding for education and a raising of priorities for jobs, we really need a New New Deal. Apologies, it's the day after Obama's State of the Union Address.</p>

<p>Thoughts welcome,..</p>

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<p>You sound like one of the quintessential “Older Students” described on this page:</p>

<p>[Reed</a> College | Catalog](<a href=“http://www.reed.edu/catalog/admission/admission.html]Reed”>Admission - Catalog - Reed College)</p>

<p>I think Reed wants you to apply. :)</p>

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<p>There’s a 28-year-old freshman in one of my classes and he’s a really cool person who seems to be doing very well socially.</p>

<p>The non-traditional students at Reed have their own support group/club/weekly outing thing where they go out together to socialize with adults/avoid falling into the creepy alcohol supplier role in their social circles. From what I’ve seen and heard, they also get some of the same services/privileges as the faculty and may consequently hang out with them too.</p>

<p>It seems to me like there’s lots of support for non-traditional students here. I don’t think it would be ridiculous for you to apply. The financial side of it would be my only concern.</p>

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<p>I’m a non-trad transfer student at Reed studying sculpture, feel free to PM me…</p>

<p>Briefly:

  1. There are a number of non-traditional (i.e. older than 24) students at Reed and they have become more visible/vocal the last few years, but are definitely still a minority (like technically something like 40 students are non-trads, but it’s really more like 25). We created a student group and hang out from time to time (happy hours and whatnot), and Reed is trying to give us more support, but it isn’t the older commuter student environment like PSU. Non-trads come to Reed at all ages (though late 20s/early 30s is the most prevalent) and from all walks of life. and several are transfers from PCC or PSU. There are 6 right now that I know of that are studying art or art history.
  2. IMO, the MALS program is not worth it. No financial aid, very slow to complete, useless degree. If you don’t want to enroll in the undergrad program at Reed but still want to experience the Reed education, just audit classes.
  3. Financial aid is pretty good for independent students who make little money. Plus there are federal (and some Reed?) grants for people returning to school. If your EFC is fairly accurate, you probably won’t accrue more than $16k in federal subsidized loans over 4 years.
  4. The studio art department is very small. There’s basically 1 prof for sculpture, 1 for drawing/painting/printmaking, and 1 for digital media (and a few staff members and some visiting professors now and then). However, the professors we do have are excellent and I LOVE the sculpture program. Yes, we do have mig welders, oxy ace, and classes that teach welding. And yes, some people do make art that is actually interesting/thought-provoking/compelling. Like the rest of Reed, the art department does not escape being challenging, intellectual, and requiring a lot of work.
  5. Do you still have that essay on a computer/disc somewhere? Perhaps you could resubmit it to your old prof to comment on again, or a new prof, or just explain your situation and submit it to Reed without comments. The admissions office is very nice and understanding of alternative situations.
  6. You will probably get credit for some of the classes you’ve taken at PCC/PSU, so you wouldn’t start as a freshman but more likely as a sophomore or second-semester sophomore.</p>

<p>Basically, don’t think that your situation is so extreme that you should disqualify yourself from applying if you really want to study at Reed. Visit again and get more info from adults (non-trads, professors, Beth the transfer coordinator), sit in on some classes and decide whether it’s worth it for you.</p>

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<p>

Life of the mind? Education?</p>

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<p>What criteria is being used to say MALS is a useless degree?
Perhaps as a transfer student, you don’t really * get* Reed.</p>

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<p>o.O That’s pretty mean. Esp. with the italics.</p>

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<p>WOW, this is such an offensive statement. Wow.</p>

<p>Perhaps you should let Reed’s current students decide what Reed means to them on their own.</p>

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<p>Perhaps statements labeling MALS a worthless degree should be backed up with facts.</p>

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<p>First off, whether or not my perceived deficiencies allow me to “get” Reed, at least I “get” it enough to realize that you are welcome to attack people’s opinions when you disagree with them, but not the people themselves. That comment was totally uncalled for.</p>

<p>Useless is not the same as worthless. While I agree that it may be a worthwhile personal pursuit to improve the life of the mind through the MALS program (and don’t deny that students will learn a lot and grow intellectually), I don’t see the MALS degree being useful in any sort of professional sense, which seems to be the main reason people pursue post-bac degrees. There are no jobs that I know of that would list Masters of Arts in Liberal Studies as a qualification, even in academia, and Reed openly acknowledges its lack of practicality. </p>

<p>Since it sounds like the OP was more interested in either transferring or taking a few courses at Reed to supplement an existing degree, rather than in enrolling in the MALS program specifically, I think auditing would better fulfill that desire. Especially if finances are a consideration, it makes more sense to audit 9 classes at Reed for $900 than to plop down $33,390+ for a MALS degree. But what it sounds like the OP didn’t realize is how much financial aid (grants and a reasonable amount of loans) is available for Reed undergrads, especially independent students who haven’t had any income in a year, so that it is unlikely s/he will go into $40k of debt per year as s/he thought. That same amount of institutional aid is not available to MALS students, as Reed only offers a “small” scholarship and the rest is made up out-of-pocket or through federal loans.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.reed.edu/mals/index.html[/url]”>http://www.reed.edu/mals/index.html&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://www.reed.edu/mals/financial_info/costs.html[/url]”>http://www.reed.edu/mals/financial_info/costs.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>If one audits classes can one still participate in the discussions?</p>

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<p>Hmmmmmmmmm???</p>

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<p>Sorry,… I’ll just ask em ;)</p>

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<p>I am a Reed grad, BA. Be warned: this place attracts people seeking their personal Great White Whale. From your personal narrative, it appears that you have endured years of effort and misfortune; and that college coursework is, for you, significant on some deep levels—not just part of your individual intellectual and possibly career development, but a means of inhabiting and making your way through what you experience as the defining elements in your life so far. Reed often allows its students (and former students) to do this. Thus, some experience their theses as almost mystical pursuits, or drop out as a form of protest or reaction against where this private journey takes them, or neglect to attend to the formal requirements of their coursework, and thus have to leave. If you have heard skeptics at Reed deplore the climate of “mental masturbation”, this is probably what they are talking about. In my opinion, this is part of Reed’s attrition problem.</p>

<p>How long would it take you to get your BA at Reed, if you were to enroll there? What courses would be required, and what electives would you want to take? Could you work part-time if necessary? Would your living situation be satisfactory? (Don’t live far away from school—a drive across town at 1am to get home becomes unworkable fast.) </p>

<p>And the big question: would you be willing to go into debt to get a Reed education? Take a look at some other schools, with all these questions in mind. Would you be willing to take on more debt to attend Reed than some other, decent school? </p>

<p>If Reed emerges as the clear winner, use the reasons why you prefer it as the foundations for your “Why Reed” essay. Don’t concern yourself with the transcendent essay that got away. Writers engage the magic of their craft through working in it; this doesn’t happen only once. You are now different, as a person, from the way you were when you wrote it. At this point, it would be an artifact of your literary past, anyway. (And don’t day-trade with your nest egg anymore, either). </p>

<p>You describe your story as “a bit of a lamentation”. How do you envision that Reed would change or rechannel this motif of struggle and loss? I advise you to beware here. As you rightly observe, your twenties are almost done. You are heading into the decade in which people take their skills into the world and try to make their fortunes. Don’t be sad about this—this juncture in your life is, in itself, a place in which you can begin to make this happen. </p>

<p>My personal opinion, if you want it, is that your experience so far has been more formative, educational in its own way, than you realize. Because of its academic requirements and institutional culture, Reed would require you to undo much of it. That would certainly be time-consuming, and would very likely engage a lot of the difficult issues of your psyche without giving you the affirmation and impetus of real-world achievement in your field. You might want to enact all this at Reed, but it wouldn’t be beneficial to you in the long run. Go somewhere that meets a reasonable number of your specifications, where you can get your BA in a year and a half, and then enter a Master’s program in writing, if that is the field you choose. Do it soon. And then get out there and use your skills to write the perfect essay that won’t get lost, to make money that won’t be taken away by chance. Use your life to make yourself happy.</p>

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<p>EWells, I hope this chat thread is of some use to you. The previous post seems to have halted the chat; I did not intend this.</p>

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<p>Ewells,
Perhaps you long for the nourishment of other minds to join with in pursuit of intellectual/artistic questions.
Try auditing to get a sense of your next steps.
Best wishes to you.</p>