<p>Pros: Hands on shop tools: laser cutter/engraver, 3D printer, Saws, Drills, Solid Works certification, TSA,
Cons: No Honors or AP bump to GPA, in fact a drag on GPA 4.0</p>
<p>4.0 GPA drag also for 4 years of Wind Ensemble, but its her thing for marching band. The social networking of Marching Band is important and enjoyable to see.</p>
<p>D remains on target for 7 plus AP classes and all honors class but those non honors listed here. Maths will Include Calculus AB/BC, and Physics Honors and AP Physics. </p>
<p>Target GPA: W 4.5 Uw ~3.95 historically 4.4 is H.S. cutoff for top 4% and 4.6 is max.</p>
<p>Engineering and Music classes with no honors or ap bump are a concern.</p>
<p>Where do we need to be alert? </p>
<p>What would you do differently?</p>
<p>Also, what happens if a applicant to a engineering program as no shop skills? Does 4 years of technical and mechanical skills outweigh the rigor of Physics C? or a 4.6 GPA?</p>
<p>Can someone frame some advice around these subjects?</p>
<p>Shop skills are not engineering. But take that with a grain of salt. Depending on exactly what branch/niche of engineering D pursues, they may have zero value or could be extremely useful on projects. For my own S, he was in band for 4 years and due to other scheduling issues, only had 2 AP classes, got accepted to the engineering program at our state school and has done really well. Any shop skills he has were learned at the workbench at home.</p>
<p>Tell her to do what makes her happy. That will reap far more benefit than trying to play the system to some hopeful end. There’s nothing worse than taking classes you hate just because it’s an honors or AP class. </p>
<p>I agree. Beyond the admissions course requirements for the most selective programs she’s applying to, which she should cover with the most rigorous courses she can handle–honors or AP–she should take elective classes she enjoys. My daughter took four years of orchestra and three years of visual arts classes (in addition to AP-- calc, physics B, chem, lit, etc) and had no trouble being accepted to all the engineering programs she applied to. In her case it didn’t have a negative affect on her class rank percent, and only slightly affected her numerical rank.</p>
<p>Frankly, a high school engineering course is nothing like engineering in college. If she wants to take it because she likes it, then encourage it. Being able to make things is a lot of fun. Another option might be a robotics club. Also remember that college admissions look at non-academic aspects of the student, particularly the most selective universities.</p>
<p>My son choose Tech Academy over Governor’s School because it is want he enjoys. In his HS Engineering Program, he is earning college creditsfrom RPI through PLTW. When it is time to apply for college, Admissions Offices may not see him as a well rounded student. He enjoys STEM classes and excels at the them. An Admissions Counselor from our flagship state university told me they were not necessarily looking for a well rounded student but a well rounded class of students. </p>
<p>Also my son is an athlete and got a A in Weightlifting class. It does not compare to an honors or AP class but he enjoyed and it gve him a break after honors English class. </p>
<p>As others have said, if she loves those Engineering classes stick with them. but if she doesn’t love them and is only taking them to increase her chances of getting into an enginering school, then don’t bother. There should be more focus taking the most rigorous calc and physics course load possible (with the fun stuff mixed in, of course). My two daughters each only had 1 sememster of an overview type engineering class (a little mini bridge construction, a little electrical circuitry, a little robotics etc). DD1 is in 4th year civil at VT and DD2 was accepted to 8 engineering programs and will be attending UT-A. </p>
<p>I can’t imagine what would be done in 4-years of high school “engineering” classes. Shop skills and high school engineering classes probably provide zero benefit in college admissions. Taking AP Calculus and AP physics, on the other hand, would provide an admissions advantage.</p>
<p>Still, she should take the classes that she is most interested in. You don’t say whether or not she actually likes the engineering classes. Based on what you have said, she should continue with music. And do well on her SAT and/or ACT. </p>
<p>Universities are familiar with high school curriculums within their state. They can look at an in state applicant’s current course load and know what prerequisite classes they completed. The high school engineering program that my son enrolled has graduates being accepted into engineering programs across the state. The engineering program is part of the Tech Academy with offers concentrations in biomedical and computer science also. Taking AP classes will always help but pursuing special interest in PLTW, IB or any other program does not prevent a student from reaching their goals of higher learning. </p>
<p>Actually, we are blessed to live in area where resources are given to schools to provide quality programs. Standard test scores are always above national averages. </p>
<p>@DecideSomeHow thanks for the helpful note and link. @eyemgh teenage angst aside the academic challenges have not been an issue it is the 250 plus hours from August to January marching band season that competes with study time. @parentof2014grad we do have some reach schools to consider, and the collective reality is many students miss the 4% mark by hundredths of a point.</p>
<p>@sacchi @bennnie D excels in all her classes, and is 2 years ahead of her cohort. IMHO, the forecast is that will have plenty of rigor completed. One problem was that the H.S. math track capped out at Calc AB, but we have been proactive since our arrival and hope to have Calc BC by the time she is a senior. </p>
<p>Strongly considering omitting AP Chem, I think Chem 101/102 courses are good for freshman in college. Also she will run out of English classes by senior year H.S.</p>
<p>Middle School (H.S. classes)</p>
<p>Chemisty 1 Honors (Middle School 8)
Geometry 1Honors (Middle School 8)
Algebra 1 Honors (Middle School 7)
Spanish 2 (Middle School 8)
Spanish 1 (Middle School 7)
English 1 Honors (Middle School 8)</p>
<p>Freshman</p>
<p>Algebra 2 Honors
English 2 Honors
Spanish 3 Honors
Concert Band (EC/Marching Band)
Engineer 1 (Solid Works Certified), EC/TSA Club
Biology 1Honors
AP Human Geography (Only B Grade)</p>
<p>Sophomore forecast</p>
<p>Anatomy & Physiology honors
AP World History
Precalculus Dual Credit
Engineer 2 (pre requisite for Robotics Foundations)
AP Language and Comp
Wind Ensemble 2 (EC/ Marching Band)
AP Biology</p>
<p>Junior forecast</p>
<p>Calculus AB
AP US History
Engineering Robotics Foundations
Wind Ensemble 3 (EC/ Marching Band)
Spanish 4 Honors
Physics 1
AP Literature and Composition</p>
<p>Senior forecast</p>
<p>Calculus BC
AP European History
AP Physics B
AP Spanish
Engineering Tech Leadership (EC/TSA Competition Team)
Wind Ensemble 3 (EC/ Marching Band)
AP Chemistry</p>
<p>If she is that strong in math, can she take a college calculus course instead of a slow-paced AB-BC sequence over two years? That could allow her to take more advanced college math, or other electives of her choice, as a senior.</p>
<p>If you want to do your daughter a favor, I would have her take the highest level of Calculus, Physics and Chemistry possible, all the other stuff will be mostly irrelevant.</p>
<p>Omitting AP Chemistry is a big mistake in my opinion. I am an Industrial Engineering major and I had to take both Chemistry for Engineers and a Materials Engineering class. Both were challenging because I did not have a strong Chemistry background.</p>
<p>Anyways, it is always good to be ahead of the pack but even with all these AP and Honors classes, she may still struggle with her first year Chem, Physics and Calculus classes. I would say, most of my cohorts did</p>
<p>@bschoolwiz I would agree with AP Chem also but she took Chem in the 8th grade and would not be a student taking back to back Chem Honors and AP Chem. I would not want to chance a H.S. GPA killer because to the 3 year gap in chemistry. In college the chips fall where they may, but she will already be admitted.</p>
<p>Calculus BC and Physics C are not in the curriculum this year, and we are only securing enough number kids in precalc this sophomore year to have a BC class in 2017. Physics C is the same story.</p>
<p>I agree with @bschoolwiz, no chemistry since 8th grade is a bit of a red flag for a future engineer, but since she’s only a year in to high school, you can see how she handles her schedule sophomore and junior year before you decide about AP chemistry. As far as class rank is concerned, it’s up to her to get As in whatever classes she takes. She appears to have enough weighted classes in her schedule to hit your target GPA, and adding more might backfire. One B erases the weighting bonus of the AP class, but she gets to keep the “rigorous” label for the purposes of college admissions, and she gets to keep the education she receives. Marching band is time consuming, but worth very minute in my opinion. I had a ton of fun, and met my husband in high school marching band. The other question to consider would be, if she did not take some or all of the engineering classes because they are unweighted, what would she take instead, and what would she gain, besides a potential bump in class rank, by making the change?</p>
<p>I have not read the whole thread, but it depends on the engineering school, for example UCs in California are just more picky, but my daughter has a friend who only took Honors Physics in senior year of high school and he got into UIUC engineering or computer science. Of course he has to pay OOS tuition but he would be lucky to get into any UCs because it’s so much more competitive this year.
Purdue is another school that is in the top 10 engineering schools but the acceptance indicates it’s much easier to get accepted than a lot of UCs.</p>
<p>@Parentof2014grad Nice to include the bit about Marching Band. =D> </p>
<p>We were looking at one H.S. when she took chemistry in the eight grade and aced it… That school had a progressive track beginning freshman taking Chemistry Honors then Biology. Oops, she is in a different H.S. and AP chemistry as a freshman was highly discouraged, not an option. D enrolled in biology honors, then finding AP biology teacher received many poor reviews and has been replaced by a first time AP instructor in the upcoming semester. Thus, I encouraged her to take Anatomy & Physiology honors which my reasoning is it will be very helpful by the time AP biology rolls around in junior year and the new teacher has a year under their belt.</p>
<p>Always looking toward a Mechanical Engineering program, we can’t omit physics. School has Physics Honors and AP Physics B, but Physics C is some independent study group. Weird, heck middle schoolers are graduating feeder schools with Geometry 1, and we are only now demanding Calc BC be included. This environment you can understand why AP Chem was denied her.</p>
<p>If we were to drop engineering we could move up physics honors, and get to AP Physics B in junior year. I am hearing others here say skip AP Physics B and go to AP Physics C.</p>
<p>Now AP Chem, if we conclude that AP Chem is to be treated as any other class for rigor, then we go for it in junior year instead of engineering for example. However, if we conclude going into AP Chem cold is a risky proposition then if we must take it, lets do it in the senior year where only the first semester will reflect on GPA reporting on applications. </p>
<p>Thanks for your attentive response earlier.</p>
<p>@Sohoist, it wasn’t the academic challenge I was referring to, it’s taking classes she doesn’t enjoy for the purpose of impressing an admissions department. I’m not saying she is, it just makes students’ experiences less rich if that’s the path they choose.</p>
<p>When applying to engineering programs, they will compare the the rigor of the applicable science and math courses to the options that the student had. If Calc BC was an option but they chose Statistics, that will not reflect well even if both are AP classes. </p>
<p>All of the AP science courses can be taken without having had the 8th/9th grade version of the class, so don’t worry about gaps between courses.</p>
<p>Physics C is calculus based, B is not. If only one is an option, take C.</p>
<p>Lastly, I’m sure you slipped into this unconsciously, but it’s her process, and her’s alone, no matter how much you guide her. It’s better if you use “she” rather than “we.”</p>
<p>She really should be fine taking physics B with no prior physics. D found it easy. I can’t comment on C - it’s not offered at our high school. D took honors biology, honors chem, AP chem, and AP physics B for her sciences. AP chem was the most work of those, but I don’t think she’d say it was her most challenging or work intensive AP class. It might have been without prior chemistry. I think D said they covered all of honors chem in the first two weeks of AP chem. She got a 5 on the AP exam. </p>
The other question to consider would be, if she did not take some or all of the engineering classes because they are unweighted, what would she take instead, and what would she gain, besides a potential bump in class rank, by making the change?</p>