I’m trying to decide which school to apply Early Decision to.
I love both schools, but Brown is significantly more expensive than Williams.
I ran the net price calculators and got the following:
$5k/yr at Wililams so 0 debt/yr.
$15k/yr at Brown so about $10k/yr of debt (I think I can reasonably earn $5k a year)
My dad keeps on saying $40k of debt after graduating Brown is worth the “ivy league” brand (ugh. I know.) because people will look up to me if I say I went to an Ivy League school + I don’t have to explain to everyone I meet that Williams is one of the best liberal arts school and isn’t a community college. He said I should definitely go to Brown over Williams.
Which one should I apply to/go to if(big if) I get admitted to both schools RD?
I want to attend medical school after undergrad so I assume Williams is a better option. Am I wrong? Or is he right that I probably need the “ivy league” brand?
Williams is a very good option, especially for that price range.
You can’t take on 10K debt a year. You’re allowed 5.5K for freshman year. Can your parents pay the rest?
Williams is a Little Ivy anyway and the people who don’t know it’s not a ‘community college’ probably don’t Brown either. However med schools and employers will have no hesitation in recognizing both as peers (with some giving an edge to Williams).
Both are extremely selective. Get an acceptance from either or both before you worry. Apply to the school you like the most. Chances are very slim you will get in, but better than RD.
My dad keeps on saying $40k of debt after graduating Brown is worth the "ivy league" brand (ugh. I know.) because people will look up to me if I say I went to an Ivy League school + I
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This is ridiculous for a few reasons.
If you’re a doctor, no one is going to care where you went to undergrad. If anything, they may ask where you went to med school, but probably not even that… if people are going to be impressed, they’ll be impressed that you’re a DOCTOR.
Also, you won’t be saying, “i went to an Ivy League school,” unless you want people to think you’re a tool. If anything, you’d say, “i went to Brown for undergrad,” and frankly, a bunch of people won’t even know what Brown is, much less know that it’s a Ivy League school. More likely, the people who know about brown will also know about Williams, but again, once you’re a doctor, there will be little discussion/mention of where you went to undergrad…why would there be. That’s like being in college and people being impressed with where you went to middle school.
And since you’d be taking on a bunch of debt for med school, it’s silly to be taking on debt for undergrad.
And, since your low income parents would likely not qualify to cosign that debt, you couldn’t borrow it anyway. You can only borrow 5500 as a frosh. Your parents would have to qualify and cosign for the rest.
Yeah I know exactly where you are coming from. His point is that if people don’t know what Brown is, I can say it’s an Ivy League school and that will apparently impress people. He says that if I do end up starting my own practice, being from Brown will be advantageous for that reason.
And I do believe my parents would be able to cosign that debt with assets. We have a home valued at about 300k with no debt on it. I would assume that this could be used as a collateral? I’m not sure.
Williams is every bit as good of a University as Brown. Both schools also have excellent financial aid and will meet full need if you are accepted. Do not assume what your COA is before your acceptance/financial aid package arrives. If they arrive too. I should also note that if you become a physician nobody cares where you went to College. Very few people even care where you went to medical school. Your fellow Docs will only see you through the eyes of where you did your residency and or fellowship if they do not know you personally. You are also highly unlikely to ever start your own practice even if you become a physician. I think that only one or two my patients over 25 years has ever commented on my Ivy league background. Go to the best affordable school that fits you personally.
Why would you apply early decision when you need so much financial aid? You should apply regular decision and compare offers. Unless you are a legacy or an athlete, there really isn’t much benefit to applying early.
Williams. It’s at least as good as Brown academically (unless you want to major in something Brown has that Williams doesn’t…), one of the very best undergraduate educations offered in the US.
If they were even in cost I’d suggest choosing between the two fairly different settings and the usual “LAC vs. U” differences. But if Brown is going to cause you to go into mid-five-figure debt, and you will have no debt after Williams – and you like them both pretty equally – then I think the clear choice is Williams… as long as they have majors that interest you.
My concern is less with the potential debt than it is with fit. These are two very different school geographically (and otherwise). You can take a total of $28K in debt for your undergrad, your parents appear to be able to pitch in at least the other $12K. You may or may not go to med school, 18 year olds change their minds all the time.
Take a look at the offerings at each school, especially the locations and size. Williams is very rural, Brown in Providence. Student body is very different as well.
You plan to go to med school. Frankly getting into a med school is more impressive than where you went for undergrad. At the end of the day your goal is to be able to enter your profession. You need at minimum a great gpa and MCAT scores. When you get your acceptances go where you will do well and shine. There is no guarantee at this point that you will get into either of them so don’t get ahead of yourself. You want to finish undergrad with zero debt if possible if you plan to take out loans for med school.
Depending on stats (are they top notch?), go with Williams ED. If denied or deferred, try ED2 at a ‘slightly less’ prestigious LAC. You are wise to run NPCs ahead of applying. ED will help you get in, but you have to know you can pay for that school.
Great advice by above posters regarding personal fit, zero debt, Ivy-mania.
@PetulaClark
Yes. I do have great stats that are in the 75th percentile of Williams. I’ve been admitted to Amherst and Swarthmore’s fly-ins so I apparently have a solid chance of admission at those two schools.
His point is that if people don’t know what Brown is, I can say it’s an Ivy League school and that will apparently impress people.
He says that if I do end up starting my own practice, being from Brown will be advantageous for that reason.
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Again, more silliness. Once you’re a doctor or even in med school, where you went to undergrad will soooo very rarely ever come up. With all the doctors we’ve seen over the past 5 decades, I can say that I only know of where 1 went to undergrad and that’s because we know him personally.
As for setting up your own practice…again, how would being from Brown be more advantageous? How would they know or care? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a doctor’s undergrad diploma in his office. I’ve seen med school diplomas, residency certifications, and fellowship certifications.
Your dad is really stretching…when someone goes to a doctor, why would where they went to undergrad matter at all? Nothing “medical” is taught in college. And when people pick or are referred to a doctor, how would they know where you went to undergrad. Training listed would include med school name, residency program name and fellowship program name. Undergrad name isn’t a part of that.
You’ll get into either school because of your hs record. As your patient I wouldn’t care one bit about how great of a hs student you were. I as your patient would only care if you’re a competent MD, where you went to college is of zero importance.
As to setting up your own practice: that may cost borrowing $$, your creditors would be very concened about your credit, debt ratios, not where you went to college.
The biggest advantage may be your father gets to brag that his child attended an Ivy.
Many LACs look to enroll more “ORM” because at many LACs Asian students (taking a guess here) are sought after. Especially if they are also first gen or low income.
The accept rate from fly-in students is much higher than for the general applicant pool. Did WOW not accept you? That might be a signal worth paying attention to.
I think you should also look at other meet-full-need schools, there are many that are less selective than Williams or Brown that might be affordable.
WOW did not accept me but offered me a phone call and a fee waiver. I think for now, I like Williams and Amherst equally.
Also apparently even if you were rejected from the fly-in, you still have a good chance of admission if you apply ED.
Speaking as a Brown alumnus, I would say assuming you don’t personally have a strong preference between the two (e.g. I didn’t even apply to Williams): debt free williams over debt ridden Brown every day of the week. I know NPCs can be off and schools do it differently but Brown expects you to pay 15k/year while Williams only expects 5k???