I’m trying to decide which school to apply Early Decision to.
I love both schools, but Brown is significantly more expensive than Williams.
I ran the net price calculators and got the following:
$5k/yr at Williams so 0 debt/yr assuming I can earn $5k a year.
$15k/yr at Brown so about $10k/yr of debt (I think I can reasonably earn $5k a year)
My dad keeps on saying $40k of debt after graduating Brown is worth the “ivy league” brand (ugh. I know.) because people will look up to me if I say I went to an Ivy League school and get treated with more respect in society since it’s a label that will carry with me for the rest of my life + I don’t have to explain to everyone I meet that Williams isn’t a community college. He said I should definitely go to Brown over Williams.
Which one should I apply to/go to if(big if) I get admitted to both schools RD?
I want to attend medical school after undergrad so I assume Williams is a better option. Am I wrong? Or is he right that I probably need the “ivy league” brand?
I do come from low SES/low-income family (EFC 0) if that matters if I need the ivy league brand lol (I guess it would because I have no connections whatsoever so I may benefit from the big alumni network at Brown).
Your ability to borrow without a cosigner is limited to $5,500 first year, increasing to $6,500, $7,500, $7,500 in later years. So you may not be able to borrow enough to pay for Brown.
The admissions staff at medical schools and graduate schools will know how strong Williams is.
Medical schools are expensive. It is not unusual for doctors to be paying off student loans for a very long time, and as costs increase the amount of time that it takes doctors to pay off their debts is going to be increasing in the future (such as by the time that you graduate from medical school).
Avoid debt for undergrad, particularly when choosing between two schools that are both so strong.
Though these schools create a trivial example because of the narrow margin between them, they can still serve to show that it’s quite possible to chase a “brand” downward, at least by certain factors (which would include cost in your case):
@Yololololol The Businerssinsider ranking is somewhat meaningless. Williams’ average SAT is derived by converting superscored ACTs to the SAT. Brown’s SAT average isn’t formulated with superscored ACTs
Williams is obviously a great school, ranked better in LACs than Brown is in national universities. However, Brown is known for grade inflation (I’ve read the average grade is an A- at Brown). Maybe this would help with med school admissions?
I’ve also read that even though ad coms know about schools that have grade inflation (or grade deflation), they still go by undergrad GPA and MCAT.
I’m impressed with Williams, and I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend Williams over several Ivy League “brand” schools. Just because Brown (or Cornell or Dartmouth, etc.) is in the Ivy League, that doesn’t mean it’s better than non-Ivy or LACs. Williams is also a great feeder school to top grad programs in the nation.
@YoLolololol, If you’re interested in Williams, why not consider Amherst? Similar to Brown, Amherst has an open curriculum
N.B. Amherst has replaced all loans with scholarship grants.
Of interest:
Using student-level data provided by Linkedin, the following colleges and universities send the highest percentage of graduates to a top-ranked medical program
Amherst
Brown
Columbia
Cornell
Dartmouth
Duke
Harvard
Johns Hopkins
MIT
Pomona
Princeton
Rice
Stanford
Berkeley
University of Pennsylvania
University of Chicago
Swarthmore
Washington University
Williams
Yale
@YoLolololol My son is a Williams grad and I can attest that there are a lot of people throughout the country and throughout the world who have never heard of Williams. If the prospect of getting a blank (even sympathetic) look when you name your college bothers you (or your family) then Williams may not be for you.
Having said that, I would stress that a lot of people who matter – professional and graduate school admissions committees and employers especially in the Northeast – know and respect Williams. I don’t know much about medical school admissions, but I do know that Williams has excellent counseling and placement for medicine and many other graduate programs and an active and engaged alumni/ae network in many professions.
Most importantly, the environment and culture of Williams and Brown are quite different. Providence is a completely different experience from Williamstown. It’s hard to imagine that you would consider both equally.
Lastly, I’m surprised that your EFC would be so different at Brown and Williams. If Brown really is your first choice, then perhaps you could call the financial aid office and discuss this with them.
They may qualify for Parent Plus loans, or can act as cosigners for private loans, but then you are still building up too much undergrad debt if you want to go to medical school.
@YoLolololol I agree with above, Brown is not worth the extra 40k, especially if you want to do to med school after, and your alternative is a top school like Williams. Go to Williams, save the 40k and focus on getting into a top med school instead.
Plus the argument of being treated differently in society because of the ivy degree has no practical relevance for your life at all. Besides, impressing lay people with ivy league degrees works pretty much only for the more prestigious/well known ivies, i.e. HYP. The average person doesn’t know what Brown is or that it is an ivy. If a person is knowledgeable enough to know that Brown is an ivy then they also know that Williams is a top school.
Like momrath, I wonder how the Brown figure is that much higher. Brown says that families with total income under $60,000 have no parental contribution required, and ones with income under $100,000 will have no loans in their package. I would think with an EFC of 0, you would qualify for both of those.
That doesn’t count any assets you or your parents may have (which any school would want a percentage of above a certain level), but that seems unlikely to make a big difference between the two schools.
I’d also suggest calling Brown, giving your income and assets in general, and asking if they would require a family contribution or a loan from you. If not, it could be as affordable as Williams.
