My son had what we call “an Accidental Minor” in Global Theatre and Ethnic Studies. Definately no plan to use as a back up plan. Just took enough credits in this area to make it a minor; and not purposely hence the Accidental Minor moniker.
My daughter never had or has a back up plan. She also did not have a second area of study…no minor or second major. She did enjoy an array of liberal arts classes. While besides her musical theater performer career, she also has careers as a singer/songwriter (non-MT genre) and as a musical theater writer/composer/lyricist), she did not study those subjects in college. She happens to have talent, I suppose, in those areas, just no formal study. She did write her first original musical in senior year as a project she just wanted to do before graduating and never intending to write more musicals. But her careers as a singer/songwriter and as a MT composer/lyricist of new musicals just took off. She did study piano growing up, but never wrote songs until late in her college career. She did write arrangements for her a cappella group in college. And during college summers, she was in a paid position as a cast member who had to both write and perform original songs in NYU Reality Show, and was also musical director. So, I guess some of these outside activities gave her experiences that paid off later on.
It seems to me that another common thread is that work during college is really valuable, and that one thing leads to another and that if you are open to new experiences (at whatever level and however badly paid) you are continually developing skills and relationships outside the classroom. It’s sort of like improv where you should always be saying “Yes, and…”
^^^The “one thing leads to another” comment has been very true from my observations of my daughter’s budding professional career.
For my daughter, sometimes her various “careers” get combined in jobs. For example, this coming theater season, she is in an Off Broadway show in which she was asked to write all the music and is the person performing it all too. She also was asked to write all the music for a significant show in NYC a year from now, in which she also will perform one of the parts. I can think of a show she did a year ago at a well known regional theater where the music was by someone famous, but my daughter had to write all the arrangements, musically direct and sing all the songs in the production. Also, a well known West coast theater had commissioned my daughter to write a musical. Next season, they offered to produce it and she was offered to also star in it but has had to turn it down due to a conflict with the Off Broadway show. As well, several roles she has played in theater productions lately have required her to play instruments in the shows too. In one Off Broadway musical, she had to learn to play accordion (quite quickly) for the role. She liked it so much that she bought herself an accordion and has since played it in other musicals and in her singer/songwriter career. So several jobs have involved a combination of her “careers” and skill sets.
@soozievt She is one busy and must be very talented girl! How proud you must be. Let me know what show she is in as I go see shows all the time in the city. Would love to show some CC support!! 
I really agree with @jkellynh17 that work begets work, particularly for people who are easy/fun to work with.
I know several cases where, as with @soozievt’s multitalented D, college a cappella experience has mattered a lot in the post-college years due to arranging expertise, the ability to sightsing and carry very complex harmonies and unusually tight friendships. I think every performer in D’s first adult professional show had extensive a cappella background. Given the value and large time commitment, maybe a cappella should count as a second major… hah!
D is now 3+ years out of school (NYU). She has taken a different route than many of her classmates–and decided by the end of sophomore year that she probably would be happier focused on the business side of things rather than being a full-time performer.
I think the turning point came for her when she realized that she wanted to stay in NYC to do two internships rather than leave the city to do summer stock. During January break of sophomore year she sent her resume all over the city seeking entertainment jobs and in the end was hired as a development intern for a major film/ theatre producer and as a marketing/ promotion intern for a major LA film production company that had a show on Broadway at the time. She spent a busy summer doing both internships and loving it!
She still enjoyed performing, but didn’t want the instability of the life-style. But beyond that, the business side of things really spoke to her and was a good use of her other talents and interests. She decided to minor in the Business of Entertainment, Media and Technology to learn more.
Since graduation she has worked doing post production for a film producer and then interned and apprenticed at a top B’dway casting agency. After her apprenticeship ended, the head of the casting agency recommended her for a position with a talent manager. She was there for pilot season, but then was offered a position as an assistant at a top talent agency in their theatre department. (She had sent them her resume more than a year earlier, interviewed and was told they didn’t have any openings at the time. They said they’d call her if anything opened up–and they did!)
She stayed at this agency for over 2 years, was promoted to coordinator, but was frustrated that there was no room for real growth beyond that. Unless an agent left, and that did not seem likely, there was no where to go.
So in late spring of this year she accepted a position at an entertainment law firm as a marketing coordinator. The job is less glamorous, not as quick-paced, but is giving her excellent experience doing pr, web site development, new business development and event planning. Her new position offered higher pay (let’s just say that it is currently proposed that fast food workers should be paid more than most assistants) with a lot fewer hours–more a 9:30 to 6 pm job vs. a 9:30 to 10 pm type of job.
The entertainment industry is chock full of highly educated kids from great schools all working as assistants–and all trying to figure out how to move up.
One of the reasons D decided to move on from the talent agency (for now) is that she is seriously considering going back to school for her MBA in 2017. She is starting a GMAT course in a week or so and intends to apply for fall of 2017 to a full time program.
She’s looking into programs that have connections to entertainment and media and have networking in NY and LA. So her optimistic list (hard to tell if it is realistic until she takes the GMAT) is: Columbia, Yale, NYU, Dartmouth, UCLA and USC. If she does a full time program, it would have to be a top school with recruiting and networking.
No passion for law, but being in an entertainment law firm isn’t bad experience if she decides to go that route. Actually, the person who had her position before her left to start Columbia law.
At this 3 year bench mark, many of her friends are going in different directions.
Overall, the boys in her program have had more success than the women in terms of Broadway. Two females have been in the ensemble of Phantom on Broadway (one left to go to Yale Drama School.) But several of the males have had leads or featured roles on Broadway–in On the Town, the King and I and Book of Mormon.
Some people have had stints on cruises and some have been on the road touring–both Equity and non-Equity tours.
Many have stayed in NY and are auditioning when they are called by their agents. They are teaching yoga, dance, voice and children’s classes. Some shoot head shots. Many are bartenders, hostesses, waiters and babysitters. Most of them spend a vast majority of their time working these survival jobs vs. performing. Some are rethinking their direction, others are sticking with a least a 5 year plan to pursue acting.
Several are also starting masters programs (or hope to) in law, education and business.
I don’t hear regrets from any of them. Some wish for more success as actors, but went into it with their eyes open. I think going to school in NYC really helped with that. For the ones who have decided to no longer perform professionally, I think they feel that their NYU degree has been well received on the job market and at competitive masters programs.
@uskoolfish - thanks for sharing your D’s journey! Any guess as to which aspects of her college years have mattered the most to her to-date?
I remember a couple years ago British research found that only 38% of employed actors were female. From what I’ve seen, this probably understates the employment discrepancy since many theatres devote limited AEA contracts to attracting males (in particular male dancers) versus female leads, so not only are there more male roles available but also the males tend to be better paid overall.
Are many folks in this position fully self-sufficient? I can’t imagine affording NYC on a hostess “salary”.
D really enjoyed taking voice lessons and performing. She liked that part of her education very much. The issue for her was that she did not want to constantly audition and take jobs that were not intellectually challenging in order to survive. She didn’t like the uncertainty of that life style. In college the kids–regardless of their majors–are all students and live similar lives. They are generally supported by their parents and are taking classes that they enjoy. They don’t realize what it will be like to actually pursue their major in real life. They don’t really understand that by pursuing acting vs. another path that they may be poor and that their friends will have different life styles because they make decent salaries.
Additionally, because she knew many of the students in her program who were a year or two ahead of her and had already graduated, and because she was living in NYC which is where most of them stayed post-graduation, she had a real good idea of what to expect if she decided to audition full-time. It was certainly a contributing factor for her questioning what she wanted to do.
Plus my D had interned in public relations since high school and was the type of kid who succeeded in several areas. She was school president senior year and had lots of leadership experience. In NYU she was the president of the student run theatre program at Steinhardt for two years and liked that as much as performing. Running the theatre company, interning at big entertainment companies throughout her junior and senior year and taking classes in producing and marketing as part of her minor all contributed to her wanting a business career. She also had a second minor in English literature. (The HR people at CAA really liked that when they interviewed her–since they like “quirky intellectual types” for the theatre department.)
To answer your question about survival jobs and salary–most of the kids seem to be getting help in some form or the other. That includes my own D. Assistant jobs in entertainment–for the best of companies–tend to pay in the low to mid $30,000/ year range. When she left to get her current job as a marketing coordinator, she was able to jump into the $40,000 range. Which is still quite low. Some of her nannying or hostessing friends may be making comparable money, but it is less consistent and they don’t have benefits.
We help D out on rent. She pays us $800 a month for rent in an apartment which we share with her part time. The lease is in our name and we come weekends when we want. She’s there on her own 95% of the time. But it’s in a great neighborhood (West Chelsea), a half block from the high line, in a doorman building. Her sister will move in with her when she graduates NYU next spring. But we pay the bulk of the rent. She pays all her other expenses–kind of. We help with clothing for special occasions and give her frequent flyer miles for vacations.
Most of the kids we know who are totally supporting themselves are living in apartments that are in the $800 to $1000 range in kind of sketchy neighborhoods. Locations that would make me really question a woman’s safety coming home late at night. Being a NYer, I have a pretty good knowledge of neighborhoods that are safe or not.
Some parents have bought NYC apartments and their children are paying the carrying charges. Others are getting monthly checks to help them out. Local students from the NYC area are often living at home. Several of D’s friends who can’t get this kind of help have left NYC for the most part. Some have done cruises for a 6 month period, then audition for a few months on the money they have saved. Others have moved back home and pursue theatre closer to home. Some have moved to LA and are trying to break into tv and film. And as I said before, many are returning to school for master’s degrees.
@MomCares I should add that a one bedroom apartment in a decent NYC neighborhood is going to go for a minimum of $3000 without frills. And that’s if you are lucky and willing to walk stairs. So if 2 people share it, you are talking at least $1500 a person for just rent. So that would mean that my D would be off by roughly $700 to $1000 a month towards rent.
@uskoolfish - Many thanks for that realistic view of affording NYC! I’m watching how tough it is for recent grads to decide if it makes better sense to establish a base there or elsewhere. It’s a difficult tradeoff, especially for kids with student debt and/or who won’t get ongoing financial help.
My daughter(s) didn’t have the option of getting help once they obtained their final degree and so had to support themselves since graduation day. My MT daughter stayed on in NYC after graduating from NYU. She already lived in Brooklyn. She is able to survive just fine. I don’t know what she earns, but I imagine it is less than uskoolfish’s D’s current salary. However, while uskoolfish describes what rent can be in NYC, let me say that my D, nor most of her actor friends, does not live in such high rent apartments. My D lives in Brooklyn and many of her professional friends in theater and music do as well. Not only are rents cheaper, but you get more apartment for the money. In the past, her share has been $700 or $800 in apartments with apartment mates. Her current two bedroom apartment (yes, it is a walk up) is $1700/month, and she shares it with her fiancé. She pays $1000/month because she wanted what is meant to be a second bedroom to be a music studio for her. She is also able to take deductions on her taxes for her “home office.” So, I am posting so that those with kids not yet in NYC have a view of what many recent actor grads are paying for their share in an apartment, but in more affordable locations, where most of them tend to live unless they make a very high salary.
With regard to health insurance, daughters were on family plan until that was no longer possible by law. D1 gets health insurance from her job. D2 (MT grad) gets health insurance through Actor’s Equity.
I sometimes treat daughters to some clothing when we are together or for a special occasion and they get gifts on holidays and birthdays. I also am paying all the college loans, which was the intent when they entered college (that they would not be paying loans themselves). My D’s fiancé, also an actor and graduate of NYU/Tisch, did have some college loans to pay (I don’t know how much) and they are out of school six years now and I know he has paid his student loans off already.
On the housing issue: my son is subletting in a large apt in Harlem (another instance where it is easier for a boy; but I am still worried about location) for $775. The parents of his friend found this rental and are holders of the lease. Between rental fees, security and first and last month’s rent, they shelled out close to $13,000!
Just for comparison, my kid is renting a nice two bedroom in the Lakeside neighborhood in Chicago for less than $1200 and splitting it with another guy. (They both have their own rooms.) He’s actually spending more this year than last year, when he had more roommates. His rent has been as low as $400 a month for a shared three-bedroom.
^^^Well, that’s GREAT…but not possible in NYC, heh.
D1 is moving to Cambridge, MA with her fiancé into a one bedroom apartment (also walk up). It is $2300/month which includes heat/hot water. So, that is $1,150 each for rent. D1 is two years out of graduate school and has a professional job. Fiance is entering a PhD program at Harvard this month and so is a student.
@soozievt The rents in Brooklyn, Queens and Manhattan (including Including Inwood, Washington Heights and Harlem) have sky rocketed in the last 2 years. Ds friends are living all over the city. It would be extremely difficult to find a 2 bedroom in just about any neighborhood in NYC for $1700 a month in today’s market–even in areas that are very borderline safe.
The kids who are living in Bushwick, Harlem, East Flatbush, Eastern parkway, Washington heights, etc are paying more in the $1200 range these days as an absolute minimum for a new lease. That is for a share in a one or two bedroom. And that is the low end. Often there are fees involved.
For up to date info, check streeteasy which has listings.
I think it would be extremely unrealistic for kids to come to the city and expect that they could find safe permanent housing in a 2 bedroom for $1700 in an area that is not high crime still. You’re d is lucky to have found her apartment and that the landlord hasn’t jacked up the rent yet!
Our d is living in a great area with amenities because of our help. It is an arrangement that has worked well for both of us because my husband and I wanted to have the use of a NYC apartment on weekends. So we are her part time roommates. We got that apartment through connections for less than market value by at least a thousand a month, so we grabbed it and are sharing it with our older D and eventually younger d will move in too.
But that is NOT what I am using as a benchmark for rents. I’m talking about market value walk ups in areas where kids are moving in to to save money at current market rates. And for that $1200 a month amount, I’m not talking about great neighborhoods. For prime Manhattan areas or prime Brooklyn, I do think $1500 is more in line (without doormen, etc.)
My daughter’s two bedroom in Brooklyn lease began last summer and so the $1700/month is just a one year old rent for the entire apartment. Her previous two bedroom apartment (also a walk up) in Brooklyn was $1600/month ($800 each).
Yes, I know about the realtor fees.
Just reporting what my D pays on a two bedroom she has been in for one year.
My D is just over one year out. She moved to NYC last summer. She shares a 2/1, 4th floor walk up, in Washington Heights with a friend from school who graduated a year ahead of her. He had been subletting and wanted the stability of a lease. Their rent is $1,770 a month, so her share is $885. Her share of the utilities, including cable/internet, runs about $65. It is a 2 block walk to the subway. She feels safe in the neighborhood, as do I when I visit. There are lots of families in her building and in her area. There is also a grocery store and laundry a few blocks away. And she adopted a shelter cat and is very happily a cat mom.
She has a really great non performing job. She doesn’t think of it as a survival job because it is in the theatre world and she loves it. She has been there just over a year. She works nights so she is able to audition, go to yoga, take a voice lesson, work out, etc. during the day. She performed in her first NYC show in January/February, then went straight into rehearsals for a spring non Equity TYA tour. She was back in the city for the summer, and was asked to go back on tour this fall with that same company (different show.) So she will be out of the road again starting next month. Fortunately her other job has been flexible and she should be able to return to it once the tour ends. She has a pretty good plan for building her savings back up with the money from tour and having a friend sublet her room.
She is about 90% self supporting. She doesn’t have debt from school. Her dad has her on his insurance plan, which is very inexpensive for great coverage. I have her on my cell phone plan. Other than that, she pays her own rent, utilities, metro card, and basic living expenses. She has enough money to go out with her friends and have some fun. She Groupons deals like crazy. Takes $5 yoga classes. Lotteries show tickets. And I send her care packages from time to time because I enjoy doing it. She has gone through a couple of lean spells, where she wasn’t working as many hours as usual, so also knows what it is like to be staring at a pretty low bank balance.
As for school, I know she would say FRIENDS at the top of the list. She has a terrific support group. Many are in NYC and they get together regularly. And the ones who are not living in the city stay in contact. Second I think would be the faculty. She is still close to them and went back to her college this summer for a vacation and loved being able to spend time with them. She knows she can talk to them, get their advice. I think the high quality training would be third. It has served her very well, both in auditions and in the productions she has been in. Fourth would probably be the connections she made with professionals while she was in school. Networking really is big. And fifth would be the skills and experience she got working during college, especially in the box office and in the theatre office. She has a very nice non performing resume, which helped her secure the job she has.
As a matter of fact we were talking about finances and budgets and living the “starving actor” life in NYC. I laughingly told her I was sorry I wasn’t wealthy. She told me she is building character. I’ll take that.
I just did a quick look on Craigslist and my D’s rent of $1700/month for an entire two bedroom apartment (moved in a year ago) in Brooklyn is not far fetched.
2 bd 2 bath, Williamsburg, Brooklyn $1560 inc. all utilities
2 bd Lefferts Gardens, Brooklyn, $1600
2 bd Prospect Heights, Brooklyn, $1800
2 bd Prospect Park/Lefferts Gardens, Brooklyn $1800
2 bd Bushwick, $1850 no broker fees
2 bd Bed/Stuy, Brooklyn, $1850
2 bd Crown Heights, Brooklyn $1900
2 bd Lefferts Gardens, Brooklyn $1900
2 bd Prospect Park/Lefferts Gardens, Brooklyn, $1900
2 bd Park Slope South, Brookyn, $1950
2 bd Prospect Heights, Brooklyn, $1950
2 bd Crown Heights, Brooklyn $1999 H/HW inc.
2 bd Fort Greene, Brooklyn, $2000 H/HW inc.
2 bd Prospect Park/Lefferts Gardens, Brooklyn $2000 H/HW inc.