I think some neighborhoods in Queens are still in the $2000-$2500 range for 2BRs. My old stomping grounds in Sunnyside for instance, has a few for around that, some studios for $1500-ish and 3BRs @ $3000. (We were paying $800 a month for a 2BR when we left in 1993, sigh…) It is super safe and not very far from Manhattan by train. I used to run over the Queensboro Bridge into Manhattan on weekends.
There are still many neighborhoods in the NYC area where one can secure a very decent 3 BR/ 1 BA apartment for less than $2,400 and a 2 BR for under $2,000 heat included. (In fact, it’s hard to shut the heat off even when you want to in some of the older buildings and I’m sure there are times in the middle of the winter when the boiler goes out and you freeze.) You have to be willing to take the subway and no, you probably won’t have a doorman and maybe not an elevator either. There will be many fellow actors, musicians and other artists in the neighborhood as well as long time residents, school children at recess, and a fair share of “characters” that make it pretty glorious. These tend to be in neighborhoods were people know your name. This includes Astoria in Queens, Harlem and other sections to the north in Manhattan like Washington Heights and as soozie said above, many parts of Brooklyn.
I just went through the hunt for the first time this spring so my experience is pretty current. My daughter and her roommates have a freshly renovated 3 BR, 3rd story walk up for $2,100/month including heat and hot water. No dishwasher, no A/C but wired for you to add your own. She had the pick of the rooms because she/we did the work to find and secure the place but chose the tiniest of the 3 rooms because she knows once she graduates next year, she’ll have to pay for it herself. Common practice is to figure out share of rent by calculating the percentage of common space to the total and sharing that evenly but then the rent for the remainder is distributed according to square footage of the bedrooms. It is on a pretty split street with churches, schools and is literally around the corner from a subway stop with 4 lines including express service to midtown in 23 minutes. I’d live there myself in a heartbeat (and so wish I owned it or one like it) but that’s me and certainly what feels appropriate and safe is up to the individual.
Keeping it real though, even with a rent share of $600/month plus utilities plus subway fares because it is too far to walk, and you also need to eat… you get to $1200/month without blinking (or having anything to wear, or taking any classes, or doing anything for fun). So that’s a lot of hours at the $14/hour with no tips survival hostess job. It’s a hard knock life.
I grew up in NYC–in Brooklyn, in fact–so I really do know the area and struggle with some of the choices my D’s friends gave made in terms of safety. And there have been repercussions for some of them in terms of becoming victims of crimes.
Many of the areas that young adults are moving to are crime ridden and some of the poorest areas of the city. Up until just a few years ago many people who had a secure job or education were striving to get out to escape the gangs, crime, poor services, failing schools and drugs. Things haven’t changed over night and many of these problems still exist even though landlords are grabbing up properties and renovating kitchens with stainless steel appliances.
What has happened is that parts of Brooklyn that have been rediscovered, gentrified and re-developed over a 25 or 30 year period have had enormous housing increases–pushing out the lower middle class and poor. These areas, like Williamsburg and Park Slope and adjoining neighborhoods have become unaffordable. But they also became cool and an extension of the downtown scene. Working class neighborhoods like Astoria, Long Island City and Greenpoint have also been transformed over the last 20 years.
Young adults are drawn to these locations, realize that they can’t afford them, and are shown apartments that are farther away in decidedly different neighborhoods. Yes, there are other artists and actresses there–and yes, the apartments are impressively large and renovated–but some of those bargain 3 bedroom apts for $2,400 a month were renting for less than $1,000 a month a year or two ago because the area was considered so crime-ridden and poor. I almost think that some young people are naive and think that their gritty neighborhoods are what all of Brooklyn or Queens looks like!! And the landlords are laughing all the way to the bank.
I lived through the 70’s and 80’s in NYC and know what it is to be mugged and afraid to walk the streets. Some neighbòrhoods are still like that and I wouldn’t want my children living there. I am not pointing to any of the previous posters and saying that their children are in unsafe circumstances. But I would say that I would really check out what it would be like to be coming home late at night from the subway or going for a run in the early morning. I’m certainly not advocating for doormen, rooftops or elevators, but safety is another issue. I always was about a 45 minute subway ride from midtown (I grew up in Kensington), but some rides are safer than others late at night. And I would make sure that the neighborhood’s quirky “characters” are truly benign.
I understand what you are saying. But a lot of young people cannot afford the kinds of rents you were talking about in earlier posts. So there are a great many of them living in neighborhoods that are more affordable and many have been gentrified some.
My daughter has had four different Brooklyn apartments for the past 7 years . Two have been in Williamsburg. One was in Crown Heights (close to Prospect Heights). Her current apartment is in Lefferts Gardens very close to Prospect Park. She can take the Q which is a fast train into Manhattan. I don’t think she has lived in what are considered crime ridden areas, even if they are areas you might not consider for your kid.
@uskoolfish, thank you for an important, thoughtful and provoking post. It’s a good read for all of us.
The struggle with choices is a delicate balancing act and absolutely one that if we can, we should consider carefully. Let’s face it, all of us would die a million deaths ourselves if anything happened to our kids. Nobody wants that. But that fear has to be balanced against what is realistic for an individual’s situation. It’s not a phenomenon that is unique to NYC.
I’ll provide a little more detail about my daughter’s new apartment in case it is helpful, I didn’t pull her NYC neighborhood out of the air. I landed on it because of the favorable experience of another long time cc poster (thank you) who had two daughters in this crazy business that have lived in and around that area for at least 4 years. So when I was in NYC in March of this year, I went and had a look at the neighborhood and several others in the affordable range myself before I even proposed it as a place to look to my daughter who was looking to move somewhere for senior year that she could afford to live even after graduation. The apartment they are in I actually found first in cyberland courtesy of the streeteasy website which you recommended and is a great tool to get a sense of what is out there and thank you for that. I live on the west coast which meant being there to help was hard but I had time to pretend look during the winter which my daughter did not so I played with it quite a bit and ended up with a number of potential neighborhoods that I felt were worth considering.
After my March visit and getting a feel for the neighborhoods and which sections within those hoods felt OK and which didn’t I left it to my daughter and her prospective roommate(s) to do the actual legwork of seeing the insides of any property though I did tell her what to look for and look out for. I never got help from my parents finding apartments when I was in college and I wanted this to be her experience because I think a first apartment is a good experience to own yourself. I cared more about the neighborhood. Sure, newly renovated with stainless steel and no dead nor live cockroaches running around looks pretty good in comparison to the many apartments you can see that are not renovated and have active “livestock” that need to be corralled.
Lease started in May and I actually was the first person to live in that place on an air mattress and no other furniture whatsoever since both my daughter and roommates were still living in NYU housing and not yet needing nor able to move. I spent 6 days there all by myself sweating to death in spring heat and cleaning, putting in shelving, assembling furniture and all of the other stuff one has to do that I knew my daughter had no time to do herself because the minute she was done with school, she was off to a summer theatre gig out of town and her place was being sublet for the summer. You cannot sublet a place with nothing in it so somebody had to get it done and I was it.
Met some of the characters. Don’t know really if they are harmless or not. Hope they are harmless but of course there are people that are not characters that are not harmless too whom you never see coming so at least when it comes to characters, your radar is up. Met some of the neighbors who were really nice including across the hall two actors / directors that are older and have lived in the building for 5 years and who gave me the whole rundown on living in the neighborhood etc. Met the super for the building. He was great and very helpful at least to me then and I hope it continues.On a first name basis with two stellar employees at the Bronx Home Depot who are the people that actually know where everything is vs. the others that will either ignore your or pass you off because they cannot be bothered. In short, did my best to get a read. I think we are good. If I’m wrong, I’ll die a thousand deaths.
This is long and personal but I felt like I wanted to detail another personal experience from someone who is not a NYC native but is still trying to make things work within the constraints of not having any connections in the city (no relatives, no close friends), not necessarily knowing the lay of the land and having a budget that rules certain things out. That could actually be most of us here in CC or at least some of us. We can only do our best.
I’m also coming from a perspective where I myself lived in an apartment after graduation that was literally next to Route 1 in Revere, MA heading into Boston. Below me was a dance studio run by a wonderful teacher with cute students coming and going. But her boyfriend was (I believe) a mafia drug dealer with a gun in the glove compartment of his Lincoln Town car but he was nice to me and we got along. Saw that gun one night when I ran out in the middle of a confrontation where dance teacher threw a cast iron frying pan at his car in the middle of yet another heated lover’s spat and he pulled it on her. I suppose I thought I was wearing a bullet proof whatever and jumped in the middle of it. He didn’t pull the trigger on me nor her but yes… stupid. My parents never knew any of this. It is one of many boneheaded stories that most of us probably have and hope to survive. Our kids will have them too no matter where they live and meanwhile, we will all hang on for dear life because yes, we’d die a million deaths if the unlucky brick lands.
Like halflokum’s D, my daughter also lived in Brooklyn her senior year of NYU. She shared a two bedroom apartment with a Tisch grad (her best friend who is a few years older) in Williamsburg. All of the times my D apartment hunted, she focused on certain neighborhoods,and so it wasn’t willy nilly or that she was shown a different neighborhood by a realtor. Plus they looked on Craigslist (as did I from afar and sent links) aimed at certain neighborhoods. Her previous apartment to her current one in Lefferts Gardens was in Crown Heights and was with a close friend (also a Tisch grad older than herself) whose parents were subsidizing her. The total rent was $1600. Friend paid $900 for the bigger bedroom and my D paid $700 for the smaller (but still big) bedroom.
^^My daughter does not live in Brooklyn 
I know it’s not what you meant.
I don’t know where your daughter lives, but right, I meant like your D, mine did not live in Manhattan senior year and had an apartment elsewhere…my D was in Williamsburg in Brooklyn (L train). :">
BUT like your D, the apartment search was focused on certain neighborhoods.
Also, like your D, I believer, senior year, we paid the rent. But after graduation, D was on her own. These kids have to find neighborhoods and apartments they can afford post graduation if parents are not subsidizing their living expenses.
All of this talk about the costs of post-college living, often coupled with inconsistent work at mediocre salaries, is another great reminder that graduating with student debt won’t make the first 5 years any easier.
I don’t think much of anything makes the 1st few years of an artist’s career any easier
@MomCares great point! Mustn’t forget about that!
The point of my post was to get people to do their homework. There are options, but I it takes work. But believe me, some kids don’t understand the housing situation, make hasty decisions and end up being mislead by real estate brokers.
Friends of D at NYU moved to Bushwick junior year. I happened to see these boys a few hours after move in at a party on Long Island that I was picking my D up from. After speaking to them about their move, I told D that night that I didn’t like their location–that it was way beyond the fringe areas of Williamsburg that are OK. I told her never to travel alone there by train late at night. Of course D rolled her eyes at me. But in an I told you so moment that I wish didn’t happen, D called from work the next day to say that when the boys arrived home that night, their entire apartment was robbed and destroyed. I’m not just talking electronics, cash and such–I’m talking that their furniture was moved out. The cops advised them to move out immediately and break the lease. There were problems with gangs and that they were lucky that they weren’t home when they were targeted. Their parents flew in and two boys got an apt in Hell’s Kitchen (with parent subsidizes) and the other two moved into an apartment in Washington heights for the same rent as the place in Brooklyn.
Again, not trying to paint NYC as a hell hole. It’s not!!! I love the city and intend to throw both kids out of our 1 bedroom in Chelsea so that we can have it for ourselves in a few years. (That has always been our plan.) At that point both my kids will hopefully be a little more stable money wise and will be 100% on their own dime. I expect they will end up in Brooklyn or Astoria as well.
Agree with @uskoolfish wholeheartedly about the need to do your homework. I walked the neighborhood where my daughter lives (BTW soozie, she IS in Manhattan in a northern section of Harlem), and told my daughter to limit her search to a specific area and stay east of a certain street and west of another for safety reasons south of one and north of another for convenience to the express train stop. I felt very uneasy about the neighborhood especially west of the boundary street I gave her where there are even now many very spiffed up looking apartments you can see for rent online but the reality of how that area feels on the street, and the inconvenience of the subway line that serves it (which doesn’t go anywhere near where my daughter needs to go and it isn’t express) said stay away for now.
My daughter has many friends that were already living off campus before this year so she did have a sense of some of the neighborhoods they were in and what they felt like. (And some she did think are really iffy.) She was one of the last of her peer group to move out of university housing because we dreaded the process and live so far away that we knew making it all happen would be stressful, expensive and hard to help manage from the other side of the country. Expensive NYU housing (which is mostly fantastic btw) felt like such an easier option to stick with and it is because it’s furnished, safe and closer in. But she will graduate this year and intends to stay so we took the opportunity to leverage the substantial cost savings of her living in non-university owned housing her last year and put the savings towards furniture, realtor fees etc. since she would have to start from scratch. It would have been so much easier if we lived closer and I have a ton of furniture, dishes etc. from my house they could have had for free much of which I got for free from my own mother and grandmother. I’m a big fan of whatever design esthetic comes from “free.”
Anyway, this is not a story about 5 years out so I apologize for continuing the tangent but I thought I’d include an elaboration on what I know about finding a place to live in New York since so many MT students graduate from programs all over the country and head to New York to seek work.
PS: uskoolfish’s horror story above is a great reason to not forget to buy renter’s insurance. I added that from day one even when the only thing to steal in the entire apartment was my air mattress, cleaning supplies and tools
I wholeheartedly agree about doing homework about neighborhoods. As my D was already in NYC due to attending college there and has a slew of friends older than herself who are in apartments, she had ideas of where to look. She never looked in Bushwick or Bed/Stuy for example, in Brooklyn. All the advice written above is important. I just was trying to give an idea of what rents are possible and what many actors are paying in the area to live.
I love NYC and lived there for a while and took my S there regularly the whole time he lived with us, but stories like these reinforce what he’s already decided: he’s not going to NYC until he has an equity card, an agent and an offer. Which may mean he spends his career in Chicago, but so be it.
hey, i don’t have a kid in MT but have a friend who does…and have followed his career. he attended Northwestern but left school early when he was given the lead in a huge traveling show. After a year literally around the world, he returned to school and graduated. A week later, he won the role of understudy for the lead of another huge traveling show and has been on the road ( again, around the world) for the past 18 months.
Sounds like 5 years or only a couple of years out of school, most kids wind up here in NY. It’s very interesting to hear what they are all up too. Some scary stuff too, Bushwick& Bed-Stuy…yikes!! Please research before moving a kid here!
I would love to hear how those who are in another major city like Chicago are doing? What about those who went to schools in not so major cities, what did they do after graduation? Two of my daughters favorites she is going to apply to are not near a major town.
Great thread! Very pertinent as my son (in South Slope - Brooklyn) and his two friends (currently in Hamilton Heights) are scrambling to find a 3BR in a decent yet convenient area. Amazing how quickly the rents are jumping. Agree with comments above about spiffed-up re-done apartments in not-so-spiffy areas. You really need to stress safety over creature comforts.
@joyfulmamma, my son is still in school (just started jr. year), but ask @MomCares. Her daughter has been working very consistently in Chicago through college and is in a show now immediately after. There’s really a LOT going on in Chicago theater-wise. My S has had some very cool opportunities, too, during school and between terms.
Any thoughts on living in North Jersey instead of one of the 5 NYC boroughs? I think the rents would be less, but probably still high, and the commute slightly longer…but the transit is very good and can get u into midtown.