<p>You wrote: "It takes an amazing sense of entitlement to claim that there is reverse discrimination at williams..."</p>
<p>It's not any sense of entitlement. It's reality. There is reverse discrimination. It may involve small numbers, but it is real.</p>
<p>It's not reverse discrimination. Firstly, you don't even know the stories behind every single applicant, so how can you know/assume who is more qualified or not, is it that difficult to believe African Americans are capable and qualified students. Also, when talking about AA, the purpose of it, especially at top colleges is to allow for diversity because at top colleges, it is generally true that most of the applicants are qualified enough to attend the school and thus when you have so many qualified students, diversity takes control if needed.</p>
<p>I don't believe that colleges give "first gens" the thumb on the scale to the extent that they should. AndreaMskate, I just read your response and it has to be one of the most entitled responses I have ever read on this board.</p>
<p>Parents are the primary teachers for almost every kid. If you grow up hearing 50 cent words used because your parents are educated; observe them reading newspapers and books; travel more and therefore expose their children to all types of experiential learning, of course it's a ridiculous advantage over someone whose parent at times, didn't even finish high school.</p>
<p>Do you really think if your parents had a second grade education (like some kids I've worked with) your SAT scores and overall general knowledge would be anywhere close to someone whose parents are college grads? Colleges should look at what you've accomplished with the resources that you were given. It's the only way to try to compare apples vs oranges. </p>
<p>I've seen far more kids disadvantaged because schools still want high scores (irrespective of the education of their parents) than I've seen schools accept kids who are not capable of excelling in their program.</p>
<p>Williams acceptance rate for black kids may be high, but how many black kids have even heard of Middlebury or Williams; let alone want to go? </p>
<p>By the way, Williams graduates 90% of their black kids so clearly they know what they are doing and they are accepting kids who can excel.</p>
<p>A lot of white people feel superior to black people. The furor over AA is often a veiled reflection of an underlying attitude that is something like this: "how dare a school take a person less valuable than me and give MY spot to them."</p>
<p>Ask any teacher how much diversity adds to quality education. You can't quantify how someone who has had a totally different experience adds to the dorms, the classroom and even sees and reads different things from the text; this is quality education and it can't be measured by a SAT score.</p>
<p>Lani Gunier says, "people in power write the rules in such a way to declare themselves the winners." All of this talk about kids with lower scores shouldn't be admitted usually comes from whites who complain about blacks. I rarely see whites talk about what an injustice it is for Asians to have to have higher scores than whites to be admitted, but it's the truth at most selective colleges. The silence on this issue exposes the motives of those who complain about blacks being admitted at higher acceptance rates or with lower scores.</p>
<p>"is it that difficult to believe African Americans are capable and qualified students"</p>
<p>They are set at a lower standard, all URMs are, and that is a fact. I know a URM who was accepted to Yale. I am a non-URM, and I would not have gotten in with his stats.</p>
<p>^^Wow. Really. What kind of upbringing did this kid have? Most likely not the one that others have had. You are a rich, white female. I'm not being racist but just being honest when I say that you have had things practically handed to you. People with a better upbringing of course have higher stats because they are exposed to so much more. 100 points on the SAT is not that much. "this black/Hispanic guy/girl got into H/Y/P/S with a 2200 and my cousin had a 2300 and she didn't get in". Boo hoo, cry me a river. Colleges do not admit applicants they believe can not handle the work. And with the top colleges having graduation rates of 95%+, I would say they are doing a very good job of choosing students. So everyone can stop complaining about AA and diversity practices at colleges because the fact of the matter is that it is not going to change any time soon.</p>
<p>I know of some people locally who are taking action against this, or attempting to, so I wouldn't be so sure of that. Neither I nor any of my family has anything to do with it, but they want to get their feelings on AA known. And I do know that they aren't racists, they just value fair play all around.</p>
<p>This whole discussion is a bit silly.</p>
<p>To claim that URMs don't face discrimination in the classroom at the secondary level that impacts their education is quite ludicrous.</p>
<p>Secondly, diversity of backgrounds and experiences is essential for a college like Williams for a whole kettle-full of reasons that I don't feel like getting into right now. Thirdly, Williams is a private college- they can chose to admit whomever they want, as long as they can demonstrate that their choices have positive social ramifications for tax exemption purposes. If, Williams wanted to become a single-sex institution, and deny admission to members of one sex, that would be their choice to make.</p>
<p>Finally, Williams gives an ENORMOUS preference to residents of Berkshire county, and relaxes stringent admissions policies for athletes, legacies etc... Why are you chosing to focus only on URMS??? Sounds a bit racist to me!!!</p>
<p>"I know of some people locally who are taking action against this, or attempting to, so I wouldn't be so sure of that. Neither I nor any of my family has anything to do with it, but they want to get their feelings on AA known. And I do know that they aren't racists, they just value fair play all around."</p>
<p>Fair play? How about getting every kid to the best school, an SAT tutor, and the most advanced classes, and then things will really be fair. As high schools stand right now, nothing is fair. And as MikeyD said, Williams and like colleges are PRIVATE. Meaning they can do whatever they want and they do just that. The public's opinions has no bearing on what they do and will never.</p>
<p>as a URM(Black American), I must say, those previous comments were very well articulated.</p>
<p>Gaps still remain in today's society that often limit minorities' opportunities to receive the outstanding education Andrea may have recieved. Money, Education, and Resources trickle down through generations. I doubt my grandparents recieved a "fair shot."</p>
<p>Affirmative Action may play a role in Williams' admissions, but please realize that the issue is primarily one of supply and demand. To date, i've only ever met 1 other black perosn who'd ever even HEARD of Williams College.</p>
<p>And if Williams is graduating 90% of its black students, then I doubt the students in question are "inferior".</p>
<p>Andrea, not everyone in our society is rich and white. If there were no AA, most colleges would still be 90%+ WHITE. It's pretty hard to beat a race that's been given a 400 year headstart.</p>
<p>I am all for fairness in college apps, and I understand the ideas behind AA. But when you say stuff like "Today's Caucasian males are atoning for 300 years of dominance by our country's forefathers.." you just say useless crap and it makes us nice white boys very mad.</p>
<p>I believe this song outlines the problem of white males:</p>
<p>Excerpts of "Rockin' the Suburbs" by Ben Folds.</p>
<p>let me tell ya'll what it's like
being male, middle class and white
it's a *****, if you don't believe
listen up to my new cd
sham on </p>
<p>...</p>
<p>in a haze these days
i pull up to the stoplight
i can feel that something's not right
i can feel that someone's blasting me
with hate and bass
sending dirty vibes my way
cause my great great great great grandad
made someone's great great great great grandaddy slaves
it wasn't my idea
it wasn't my idea
it never was my idea</p>
<p>It's tough being a white male, that's for sure. But don't give up hope. If we have enough social progress in America, someday, perhaps, a white man could be President of the United States.</p>
<p>^^lol (10 char)</p>
<p>I am all for diversity within the student body, as I agree that it adds immeasurably to the learning experience at the College; however, the 90% graduation rate for Blacks makes me think. According to US News and World Report, Williams had a 96% graduation rate overall in 2004 (the most recent statistic). If the entire class had a 96% rate and the black students only graduated at a 90% rate, then logic would tell us that the rest of the class must have graduated at a rate higher than 96% to compensate. I would agree that overall 90% is not bad, but I think we have to compare it to the total graduation rate to get an accurate picture.</p>
<p>Why not compare whites to asians while you're at it?
AA for whites is going to be required pretty soon, oh wait it pretty much already exists since whites get in with lower score averages than asians at most university's and colleges.
How about that, a double standard! So how about we just drop this bs because if you guys didn't make the cut to get into a school like Williams, then get over it!
I didn't get into my first choice school and while I'm still dissapointed, I'm over it and not blaming race issues for it.</p>
<p>It's too late for me to edit my message since I forgot to post the edited message but i wanted to add the following:</p>
<p>Since a lot of us are all for the economy and economics, lets consider this scenario shall we?
Think of college applicants as goods, since we do get accepted and rejected like on a quality control line. We're all differentiate products and therefore one is not a substitute for the other. Consider that one of the goods is in higher demand in this economy, thus it is more coveted and there is competition by colleges in this setting for that good. Isn't that normal?</p>
<p>"I am all for diversity within the student body, as I agree that it adds immeasurably to the learning experience at the College; however, the 90% graduation rate for Blacks makes me think. According to US News and World Report, Williams had a 96% graduation rate overall in 2004 (the most recent statistic). If the entire class had a 96% rate and the black students only graduated at a 90% rate, then logic would tell us that the rest of the class must have graduated at a rate higher than 96% to compensate. I would agree that overall 90% is not bad, but I think we have to compare it to the total graduation rate to get an accurate picture."</p>
<p>Everyone else probably graduated at a 97% rate, seeing as Williams is only 9% black.</p>
<p>Yeah .. you can't look at percentages when you are dealing with such small numbers..</p>
<p>FYI. In 2000, Williams had a 100% black grad rate</p>