6 Bay Area students named Intel finalists

Parents Forum
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<p>Wasn't sure which was a better story. This, or the one about the gas station that collapsed under the weight of pigeon droppings. That was my town. No Intel finalists here.</p>

<p>"Eleven finalists are from California, six from the Bay Area. Two are from The Harker School in San Jose, the only school in the nation with more than one student advancing to the finals. And this is the first year any state has more finalists than perennial record-holder New York, which is sending seven students to the finals. "
6</a> Bay Area students named finalists in science competition - San Jose Mercury News</p>

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<p>Nice…and to think the Harker school didn’t make the top 20 prep schools :)</p>

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<p>This may be controversial but I feel strongly about it.
One thing I was happy to learn is one of the finalists is a girl, from what I generally know to be a “normal,” public high school. I am rooting for her!
She is unlikely to have had the extreme over-the-top support/special circumstances of at least some of the others listed (and yes, I am familiar with these schools, communities to varying degrees).
I hope Intel requires applicants to list support/assistance s/he may have received in doing “their” research. All I’m looking for is the deserving applicant to win, not a student who has capitalized upon parental planning/support.</p>

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<p>Must be an Asian thing.</p>

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<p>What kind of “over-the-top support/special circumstances” did the other finalists receive, and how come you think she never had the same level of assistance with her project as others did, if not more? Because she goes to a less competitive high school? Because she’s a girl? Because she’s white and everyone else looks Asian?</p>

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<p>But of course Intel requires applicants to list the support they might have received during the research process :confused:! Moreover, nowhere is it stated that any project has to be 100% the work of the student researcher as you seemed to have implied----certain procedures cannot be carried out in every lab and needs specialized personnels, or the student could not have designed every single equipment used, or one’s paper might have been reviewed by faculty members and mentors, all of which are very understandable. Judges are also there precisely to determine the level of the contribution of the applicants and to drill the contenders on their understanding of the material.</p>

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<p>How so?</p>

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<p>Folks,
I know a kid who had participated in the last years Intel STS. I would agree with Lateparty. There were several kids who does not really know the essence of what he/she was presenting. In addition, some topics of study are way over their heads. It is really hard to believe that those kids are THAT good. Yes, they are smart. However, most of them are gotten the project from parent’s lab or from doing some work in the lab of someone his/her parents know. At the best, they have indeed participated at the technician’s level, not at the PI’s level.
This raise the question of fairness to those kids who parents can’t read and write and do not work for National Labs or do not know any professors in certain universities. The leveled playing field does not exist for those kids…If you are interested, please go to this site and look a the winner list and look at their research topics.(<a href=“http://www.societyforscience.org/page.aspx?pid=513[/url]”>http://www.societyforscience.org/page.aspx?pid=513&lt;/a&gt;) I seriously doubt that the girl in the first place did the work by herself. Come on, she is smart. But she is not smart enough to initiate the work listed in her title and has enough knowledge to make major contribution to that project. I was told that that project is her father’s project. She just did some work and got coached on how to present it. It is fair to the kids who do not have similar access? You be the judge.</p>

<p>@ barrons, Re: “The Asian thing”. Yes. Asian parents often are first gen immigrants who happens to be scientists or engineers. Like “Tiger Mom” of the world, they are pushing their kids hard.
If you go to good schools in the bay area, looking at their graduation photos, you would think that the school is in Asia: 50-60% of them trace their roots back to China, India and Korea. It is a fact of life in CA.</p>

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That’s not entirely true. My husband has a high school kid working in his lab. He didn’t know him. He doesn’t even attend the same school as our kids did. I think the most important thing is to attend a school where other kids are doing science research.</p>

<p>When I read about the projects I wonder how much these kids know, but I know what sort of preparation they do. In our school you spend a year reading 10 articles a week in scientific journals before you even go find a lab. The first semester can be Scientific American level science, but the second semester you are expected to delve into an area of interest and read real papers. My son chose not to continue after the first year because he was interested more in hands on computer programming, but watching what he did to teach himself programming I do think some kids are capable of teaching themselves to a high level. My son during high school was hired to do work at a firm that college grads were normally used for.</p>

<p>BTW sometimes my husband complains that PhD candidates don’t seem to understand their work either. He’s voted to flunk several students at their orals.</p>

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<p>How do you level the playing field? In anything–academics, sports, the arts, even good looks–there will always be advantages in natural ability and access. Advantages or not, it seems to me these kids still had to work awfully hard to get to this level. Pretty impressive for high school students. And maybe their parents. :)</p>

<p>Will Asians always be Asian? Will they ever be American? Am I only American because I’m melting-pot white and you can’t identify my family’s country of origin?</p>

<p>And I’d love to see a picture of that gas station.</p>

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<p>Here you go:</p>

<p>[A</a> woman pumping gas in Vacaville was nearly crushed under a piece of roof at a gas station, and firefighters say birds are to blame. - KTXL](<a href=“http://www.fox40.com/news/headlines/ktxl-bird-poop-piles-up-causes-roof-01252011,0,4831281.story]A”>http://www.fox40.com/news/headlines/ktxl-bird-poop-piles-up-causes-roof-01252011,0,4831281.story)</p>

<p>Thankfully, it was bird poop. Could have been worse in a town called Vacaville!</p>

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<p>Article about Bay area students was actually wrong. One school, The Catlin Gabel School, had 3 student finalists this year (2 listed Oregon as their state, one listed Washington.)</p>

<p>Xiggi – you and others may be very interested in the research done by one of this year’s finalists from Levittown NY: “Science Fair, Science Unfair: Analysis of Equity in High School Science Research Education”</p>

<p>“Mike conducted a statistical analysis of all public high schools in New York State, measuring both internal factors (such as teacher qualifications and the percentage of graduates who attend four-year colleges) and external factors (including proximity to a university and the percentage of students eligible for free or reduced lunch). Mike compared these factors to the success of students who competed in national science fairs, including the Intel STS, and found that while internal factors indicated a likelihood of success, external factors had a greater correlation.”</p>

<p>Every year the same issues come up on CC about Intel/STS. For those not familiar with the competition - students are encouraged (actually, I think they’re required) to find mentors. This is not a secret or something that Intel/STS or the students hide.</p>

<p>Some winners come up with their own project ideas and find a mentor. Others find someone working in an area of interest and join in on a project – or work with a mentor to initiate a project related to current research being conducted by that mentor. Students submit their research findings along with transcripts, standardized test scores, teacher and mentor recs, and a number of short essays about themselves and science. </p>

<p>The finalists are then questioned, in person, by panels of scientists and science educators about their research, along with more general questions about science and the scientific thought process. Unlike some science fairs and other competitions, Intel/STS top 10 finalists win for anticipated science talent, as much as for the actual project. </p>

<p>For most Intel/STS pure science projects, there is a definite advantage to being near a university where lab research can be done. For some social science and math projects, it is less critical to be physically near the mentor. (I don’t know the student who did the review of science research programs – but that is definitely a study that could have been done without much, or any, face to face contact with the mentor.)</p>

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<p>Time flies … the three students of Catlin Gabel participated in the 2010 competition.</p>

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<p>Thank you very much for the tip.</p>

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<p>Pigeon poop on gas station roof = potential Intel science project for the future.</p>

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<p>Xiggi – Yes…you’re right…I was on the wrong page of the Intel/STS site and was looking at the 2010 finalists. </p>

<p>So…I’m sorry I was so quick to challenge the superiority of The Harker School…</p>

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<p>Young Evan O’Dorney goes from strength to strength. He won the Scripps Spelling Bee, he’s a top, top math student who got top score on USAMO. And now an Intel finalist.</p>

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<p>I remember reading several yrs ago in the newspaper Chelsea Clinton wrote a successful thesis (either at Stanford undergrad or next at Oxbridge?!) Guess what, it had something to do with her father former President Clinton’s policy! (perhaps foreign policy?) Anyway, she obviously had an enormous advantage compared to ANY other students interested in Clinton in terms of access to primary sources. I have seen this kind of thing before; if she had done a project or thesis about Roosevelt etc. it would have been more credible - more of a level playing field for students.</p>

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<p>^^–^^</p>

<p>Totally different exercises. In fact, the great number of sources and probable access to classified information made writing a thesis incredibly difficult, in addition to have great expectations placed upion her.</p>

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<p>It would be interesting to see, 20 years down the road, how many of these kids make significant contributions in the field of science and technology…I know of a kid who just use Intel STS as a spring board to get into Ivies. In fact, most of the kids in the finals were accepted by MIT after Intel/STS result was announced.</p>

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<p>RE: success of Intel finalists down the road – [Society</a> for Science & the Public - Intel STS - Alumni](<a href=“http://www.societyforscience.org/sts/alumni]Society”>http://www.societyforscience.org/sts/alumni)</p>

<p>Intel also reports that 70% of finalists go on to get PhDs.</p>

<p>BTW, not all finalists get into Ivies/MIT (or choose to attend one if accepted). Some choose to take advantage of opportunities to take graduate-level courses or do research with specific profs/departments at other schools.</p>

<p>There are some areas in math/CS where one can work fairly independently, with the mentor serving in the role of a sounding board.</p>

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<p>Great information, CountingDown. Looked at the list. Breslow and Hoffmann are great chemists. Had the honor meeting both gentleman while I was in graduate school. Agreed, in terms of theoretical study, it is easier to work on the project with mentor as advisers.</p>

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<p>On the one hand, that could and should represent a really strong positive. On the other hand, focusing on the finalists only is misleading. The real focus should in analyzing the percentage of the 260 SEMI-FINALISTS who continue studies in the area of their submitted projects or obtain a PhD. </p>

<p>I maintain that it’s a shame that the Intel insists to announce the semi- and finalists before May 1st, and continues to contribute to the obvious gamesmanship and packaging of college applicants. Of course, the people who are developing the competition know that delaying the announcement to a date that will have no impact on college applications would result in a collosal attrition in the participation of students.</p>