<p>If you’re interested in evidence, rather than unsupported claims by anonymous posters on the Internet, you might be interested in the following, from Ernest T. Pascarella and Patrick T. Terenzini, How College Affects Students, Volume 2: A Third Decade of Research. San Francisco: Jossey-Bass, 2005.</p>
<p>If you don’t want to plow through it, here’s the Cliff’s Note: going to a highly selective college confers an advantage in post-college earnings, but not nearly as much as some people seem to think it does.</p>
<p>In the following, the material in quotes is verbatim from the source. Material outside quotes is my summary of the source findings.</p>
<p>Will your mother help you pay after graduation? If you say she can help you with 10k per year during UG, and with her 6 figure salary, I would think 10k after would also be manageable for your family. You would need a co-signer for that amount, her credit will be on the hook until it’s paid off.</p>
<p>Have a serious discussion with your family before decisions.
Good luck</p>
<p>Here comes a boatload of quote… Joking aside, oldfort maybe an anonymous poster on the internet, but if you read her long enough, here’s the picture: her D went to Cornell, got an IB job at one of those BBs. The kid is making real bucks. So, for her, the cost/benefit analysis is no brainer. Sure, you could say there are state U kids in IB. But, to be fair, those are few and far in between. Back to Columbia… if the OP changes mind, either major or career, Columbia could be very appealing. It depends on his or her debt tolerant level.</p>
<p>I’m not only referring to earning potential when I say I consider Columbia to be a real opportunity for a kid this age, though I do believe, given the other opportunities, anyone could leverage this into a fantastic economic opportunity, as well. </p>
<p>I am talking, also, about the real benefit of having a chance to be in NYC while you are in your developmental years. This is priceless and something worth money, in and of itself, in my opinion. It’s huge. It is life altering, even without the benefit of the excellent education you will recieve at columbia.</p>
<p>Let me put it another way. To spend four years in New York City at this age is worth the debt. To get an education at a stellar university like columbia is worth the debt. Doing a basic cost/benefit analysis. </p>
<p>This is a good way to spend some future earnings. JMO</p>
<p>How do you know that? Are you a hiring manager? I make a living of knowing how much to pay people, and I study industry data so we do not over pay or under pay people. Where do you get your data?</p>
<p>You bring up an important point, but you also know I don’t advocate heavy debt, in most cases.</p>
<p>I don’t always think, though, that everything can be boiled down to the same thing. It is not the same. A kid with a CS degree from columbia can go and work in tech in banking and do very, very well, not to mention other opportunities.</p>
<p>There is a world out there and the student has an opportunity to really see it. I’m not sure it is always the same question when a student asks about debt. When else will he/she have a chance to live in NYC for so little money? </p>
<p>You will probably be happier when you get out of school if you don’t have a mortgage worth of debt when you graduate. Go with the school that costs less.</p>
<p>My d had a variety of scholarship awards from her various schools this time last year. In the end, she did choose the one where she won the competitive award that pays 100% of her costs and fees. Because of this choice, her current situation is different than it would have been had she chosen differently. We are able to save a small amount for her to have as “start up” money when she graduates. That will be a gift from us parents, that she would not have if there were school bills and loans to pay. Also, I recently chose to buy a newer car (not A $60,000 model ) and was able to give my '06 (paid for) car to d, opening up for her the ability both to get to work this summer and be able to get to various opportunities in her college’s city next year and in the future. She has spoken many times with relief that she chose the no-debt option, knowing with the honors college at her school that she is getting what she needs academically, with the freedom to step forward after college in whatever direction she wishes to go.</p>
<p>How do you know that? Are you a hiring manager? I make a living of knowing how much to pay people, and I study industry data so we do not over pay or under pay people. Where do you get your data?</p>
<p>My H, my 4 brothers, and 2 BILs are all hiring mgrs/executives for eng’g and CS majors for Northrop Grumman, Boeing, DirecTV, Canon, and some smaller techie companies. They DO NOT pay ivy engineering/cs majors more than grads from other good schools. They don’t. Period.</p>
<p>m2k - I didn’t know your relatives were such techies. But nevertheless, where do your relatives recruit, every school or from resumes they receive? Silicone valley firms may recruit at CMU CS over Yale or Harvard engineering, but CMU CS is not just another CS or Engineering school. Most top tier firms have their target schools. It is true that they pay all of their trainees the same once they are hired, but the trainees need to be hired first. As most of us know, many college students do not stick with their intended majors. As a Columbia graduate, OP will have a lot more options. Even as a student, his/her ability to get internship will be greater.</p>
<p>I have an EE degree from Cornell and I don’t think it conferred any significant advantage to me when I interviewed for my first job. Plus you are going into an area where job prospects are good, and there is demand for people with CS degrees. I think it would be different if you were going into another field. That being said, Columbia and UF are very different schools and they are in very different locations. I think you could swing the payments if you had to. It comes down to whether or not you REALLY want to go to Columbia.</p>
<p>where do your relatives recruit, every school or from resumes they receive</p>
<p>Do they recruit at every school in the country with an eng’g or CS dept? heck no…there are hundreds of schools with engineering/CS. They recruit at the flagships, the better-known privates, and the better non-flagship state schools with good programs. And, of course, they also get resumes sent in as well.</p>
<p>They would NOT pay the Columbia grad more. They don’t start anyone with a higher salary except occasionally they will pay a MIT or Cal Tech grad a LITTLE BIT more. Or, if they really want someone (from no particular school) and that person has a similar rate offer elsewhere, the company may sweeten the deal with a signing bonus or something. But, the school name isn’t yielding a higher offer. </p>
<p>I know, it’s shocking for the Cal eng’g grad to find out he starts at the same rate as the CSULB eng’g grad. Or, the Purdue or GT grad to find out he starts at the same rate as the UAH or UTenn grad. But…that’s the way it is.</p>
<p>Just pointing out that m2ck’s and jonree’s anecdotal evidence aligns very closely with what a prediction based on the research findings I cited would project…</p>
<p>m2ck-
Where do your family members’ companies recruit for interns and new employees? Yes they all probably start with similar pay, but they have to make the cut and get noticed first, and in this day and age getting met at a campus recruiting session or getting their resumes selected for review or for an interview is a tough hoop to jump through. Perhaps not as much for our lucky engineering kids, but certainly for non stem kids, I would think.</p>
<p>This comes down to OP’s personal choice. If the debt was even 10k more or if it was for a less prestigious school, it’d have been foolish to rack up that much. However, Columbia is a prime school in a prime location with prime people. Despite everything, it is likely OP will get more opportunity from Columbia vs UF - that is unquestionable. The question is how much more? Besides just the cold hard money, consider the experience OP will recieve from Columbia vs UF. I know I’d take NYC in a heartbeat, but some people wouldn’t be any happier at NYC vs Florida. </p>
<p>Basically, it comes down to if OP is willing to spend up to $60k on experience and the POTENTIAL for more opportunity (though I do not doubt he will reap at least some financial benefit from Columbia in the long-term). $60k for Columbia, as a CS major, is not a ridiculous amount. Even with interest, $60k is probably significantly less than the first year salary that OP will make.</p>
<p>@OP: I think you need to do some deep thinking.</p>
<p>Logical thinking: Which is the better investment? Would the ivy league school make your future that much better in terms of money? Will you get that much more ROI (return of investment) from you education there over the state school? Will you be able to pay back $50K in loans? Will if affect your long term plan for your future?</p>
<p>Irrational thinking: You only live once. Which will make you happier? What’s your passion? What’s your dream? Does money really matter? </p>
<p>This is your life and you are going to have to live it. Don’t make a mistake that will affect you the rest of your life. If coming out of school debt free is your wanting, go with the state school. If the glamor and prestige is what you want, go with Columbia. </p>
<p>You have to decide what $50 is worth to you. You might not care about $50K in debt or might not value it. To me $50K is a lot of money and I couldn’t rationalize it over being debt free.</p>
<p>JimSauce, I went poking back into your past posts to see if there was anything that would help in the tea-leaf reading. Look on this more as food for thought than as anything where I think there’s a clear answer. </p>
<p>First off, I see it’s not just an acceptance to Columbia, it’s an acceptance and being named a John Jay scholar. It looks like this gives some additional networking and mentorship opportunities. Does UF offer some sort of honors college and similar type of programming? Or would you need to hunt out those opportunities yourself?</p>
<p>Next, there’s the question of just how committed you are to a CS degree. Some students come into college and come out four years later with exactly the major they were planning on. Some end up changing direction a time or two. Or three. Which is great, that’s exactly what college is for. The issue here is if you change from a major which right now leads to well-paying jobs right out of college to something which isn’t necessarily as high-paying. If you do this at Columbia, then paying back the debt becomes much more worrisome. Would you prefer the opportunity to have this kind of change of direction (UF) versus feeling more constrained to immediately start making money?</p>
<p>Have you visited both schools? Do you feel there are some kindred souls at UF? Have you talked to professors in both departments? If you’re up to it, ask a professor at each school what they’d do given your two choices. </p>
<p>NYC is an expensive city, though of course there are many opportunities for free fun. Are you willing to rein in your budget? When estimating your budget, have you considered annual tuition and cost of living increases? Have you confirmed with Columbia that they cannot sweeten your package?</p>
<p>It is far easier to get into a school like Columbia as a freshman than as a transfer.</p>
<p>There are many, many arguments pro and con about the value of attending tippy-top schools. One thing that everyone seems to agree on is that if a student is admitted to an elite college but matriculates elsewhere, then that student’s life outcome (as measured in financial and professional success) doesn’t depend on if they attend the elite. You’ll make your own success, regardless of where you attend college.</p>
<p>Congratulations on your acceptances so far, and (as the Jewish greeting goes) may you continue to go from strength to strength. :)</p>
<p>The answer to this one is not so easy. Though I usually am a naysayer on debt, I also believe that debt is a valuable tool when properly used. </p>
<p>First principles, first. College is considered the financial responsibility of the parents. So the question comes down to how much the OP’s parent can and will take on as debt. She has undergone the trial by fire, having been on the hook for many years for her college education. The OP is not going to be able to take out the loans in the numbers needed to make this work. As a graduating high school student s/he isn’t going to be able to take out the loans either, other than $5500 in Staffords, which is fine in this case. THat is about half of what the OP is going to need.</p>
<p>Can and will the mother borrow the addtional? This whole private lender thing where the parent is needed to co sign is really a sham, in that the co signer might as well be taking on the whole burden of the loan. The lender just gets two people on the hook for the rest of each of their lives, and can hit up each of them and ruin two credit ratings. The recourse available for those to get borrowers who do not pay back student loans is far greater than other debts. It’s not going be let go As an article on this board states, seniors are getting their social security checks garnished. This is one nasty monkey on ones back and it’ll be on both mother and child with co signing, and the mom will be just as responsible as if she just took out a PLUS or other loan on her own… At least if certain adverse situations occur, it is considered, instead of simply going after the cosigner without a blink of the eye. It also has a life insurance element to the structure.</p>
<p>In this case, we are looking at someone that Columbia, a school that meets full need feels should be able to pay. We’re not looking at a family who is struggling to make ends meet with truly low income. So it is really a family decision.</p>
<p>I would split the nut in half, with my kid in a case like this, which comes to $30K in debt apiece. Though it will really be more with accrued interest if nothing is paid on the amounts at all over the 4 1/2 year periods for which payment can be stalled.</p>
Joking aside, oldfort maybe an anonymous poster on the internet, but if you read her long enough, here’s the picture: her D went to Cornell, got an IB job at one of those BBs. The kid is making real bucks. So, for her, the cost/benefit analysis is no brainer. Sure, you could say there are state U kids in IB. But, to be fair, those are few and far in between. Back to Columbia… if the OP changes mind, either major or career, Columbia could be very appealing. It depends on his or her debt tolerant level.</p>